Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick

[surixon]

Would only add that, while they spoke positively about his production, don't think either mentioned his strong overall play. Only note it because I think it's the obvious pundit equation, young + small + playmaker = production and not much more at this point.

I think the argument is that Perfetti is in fact bringing more, and playing pretty much like a coach's dream of a young player on an increasingly strong line, and he's doing all that at 10 minutes or so per game while 55 + 81 are getting caved in with heavy minutes, despite 55's strong play.

Cole's a smart kid, and the team are winning. Plenty of time to iron things out and not default into still tha more conservative playstyle and line minutes share we've seen so often with this team when the going gets tougher.

Agreed, I'd question if they have even watched him play. Seems like they were just looking at the boxscore and game sheets when making their arguments.

I get that many young skilled players need to work on their d game before they can be trusted late in games. Especially for teams with playoff aspirations but this doesn't apply with this player. It also doesn't apply to Snerg who's getting similar treatment in terms of ice time.

I think this org just has a seniority/hierarchy issue where experience trumps actual on ice results. This has happened for years here. Saw it with JoMo and Trouba not getting pp time early in their careers. Saw it with sticking Ehlers on the 4th with Thor. Saw it with Scheifele needing Little to go down with a massive injury to get 1st line/1st unit pp time.

Seems to me the org is almost afraid to upset the veteran Apple cart by playing young players ahead based on merit.

 

[raideralex99]

Some discussion on Perfetti on 32 Thoughts



. Friedman chimes in and says basically its all communication on the plan - references Verbeek and Carlsson+his agent on this is the plan for Leo Carlsson and they were on board however, as the season progresses things may change.

Carlsson plays 21 mins one game and then sits out 2 games and than plays 22 mins in the next game.
So if I'm doing the math 43 mins in 4 games is an average of 10 mins a game.
I guess thats a smart move burning only 2 games instead of 4 on his ELC contract.
If the Jets won the Stanley Cup ... Friedman still would not say anything positive about the Jets. I guess he holds a grudge against Chevy because he never gets any inside scoops about the Jet's moves.
Newsflash: Jets are winning and Perfetti is doing just fine.

 

[Buffdog]

I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree here.

Vilardi goes down, apples moves to the top line. Coaches see a potential drop in 5v5 production from that line

Perfetti has been told to focus on his D play and not worry about putting up points at C. Coaching staff realizes rhat the 2nd line will need to produce offense so they move him to wing with the idea to now worry about producing (while still fulfilling the lesser defensive responsibilities of a winger). They add a strong 2 way center on the line to facilitate this

In other words, this was done for the benefit of the team, and it seems to be working

 

[KingBogo]

Agreed, I'd question if they have even watched him play. Seems like they were just looking at the boxscore and game sheets when making their arguments.

I get that many young skilled players need to work on their d game before they can be trusted late in games. Especially for teams with playoff aspirations but this doesn't apply with this player. It also doesn't apply to Snerg who's getting similar treatment in terms of ice time.

I think this org just has a seniority/hierarchy issue where experience trumps actual on ice results. This has happened for years here. Saw it with JoMo and Trouba not getting pp time early in their careers. Saw it with sticking Ehlers on the 4th with Thor. Saw it with Scheifele needing Little to go down with a massive injury to get 1st line/1st unit pp time.

Seems to me the org is almost afraid to upset the veteran Apple cart by playing young players ahead based on merit.

I don't disagree with your observation, but I think players are more understanding and patient then many fans are with their usage. Sports in general is pretty conservative and these guys have all been rookies and veterans at different levels throughout their careers. Coaches do more than manage on ice performance they manage 23 personalities in the room and on the ice. All these guys have experienced the benefits of being a veteran and some of the drawbacks of being lower on the totem pole. Coaches try to balance this out and have harmony and everyone pulling in the same direction. As long as a team is winning vets will always get a little extra benefit of the doubt. A dozen years from now, Perfetti will no doubt experience the benefits of being a vet when he has younger players nipping at his heels. Perfetti will gradually get more minutes and a bigger load as time goes on and likely push a few players down, but harmony often requires this to be gradual with vets giving way with appreciation of what the younger player has to offer.

 

[DRW204]

I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree here.

Vilardi goes down, apples moves to the top line. Coaches see a potential drop in 5v5 production from that line

Perfetti has been told to focus on his D play and not worry about putting up points at C. Coaching staff realizes rhat the 2nd line will need to produce offense so they move him to wing with the idea to now worry about producing (while still fulfilling the lesser defensive responsibilities of a winger). They add a strong 2 way center on the line to facilitate this

In other words, this was done for the benefit of the team, and it seems to be working

i agree on your shift from C to Wing. said it when the Perfetti homers were throwing their first bitch-fit post VGK game. Perfetti playing Wing has way more offensive upside than any of the other options since Vilardi is gone, and Namestnikov is fine doing the 2-way work down the middle. some of the Perfetti homers can't wrap their heads around this for some reason. the team is 3-0 since the switch?

however, the 2nd line has been really good now. should probably be getting more minutes as a whole. the top-line w/o vilardi hasn't been great, i think they can have a bit more balance w/in the top-6. over the last 3 the top-line has averaged 5 more mins/gp, i don't think the production matches that big of a gap.

 

[sipowicz]

I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree here.

Vilardi goes down, apples moves to the top line. Coaches see a potential drop in 5v5 production from that line

Perfetti has been told to focus on his D play and not worry about putting up points at C. Coaching staff realizes rhat the 2nd line will need to produce offense so they move him to wing with the idea to now worry about producing (while still fulfilling the lesser defensive responsibilities of a winger). They add a strong 2 way center on the line to facilitate this

In other words, this was done for the benefit of the team, and it seems to be working

Perfetan isn’t strong enough to hold the 2C position (yet) sorry but that’s the plain truth!

still think he was gifted the 2C spot before being ready or earning it, just my opinion, lack of size and speed is his downside no matter what

 

[Flair Hay]

I don't disagree with your observation, but I think players are more understanding and patient then many fans are with their usage. Sports in general is pretty conservative and these guys have all been rookies and veterans at different levels throughout their careers. Coaches do more than manage on ice performance they manage 23 personalities in the room and on the ice. All these guys have experienced the benefits of being a veteran and some of the drawbacks of being lower on the totem pole. Coaches try to balance this out and have harmony and everyone pulling in the same direction. As long as a team is winning vets will always get a little extra benefit of the doubt. A dozen years from now, Perfetti will no doubt experience the benefits of being a vet when he has younger players nipping at his heels. Perfetti will gradually get more minutes and a bigger load as time goes on and likely push a few players down, but harmony often requires this to be gradual with vets giving way with appreciation of what the younger player has to offer.

I think coaches can do a better job communicating and managing this, if it's in the best interests of the team.

But you are absolutely right. Managing the personalities probably has a greater effect than gping from good to perfect lineup optimization does for a team.

 

[KingBogo]

I think coaches can do a better job communicating and managing this, if it's in the best interests of the team.

But you are absolutely right. Managing the personalities probably has a greater effect than gping from good to perfect lineup optimization does for a team.

And we as fans have no idea how this is communicated within the team, as us fans are pretty much kept in the dark on any inner workings and can only speculate on things.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree here.

Vilardi goes down, apples moves to the top line. Coaches see a potential drop in 5v5 production from that line

Perfetti has been told to focus on his D play and not worry about putting up points at C. Coaching staff realizes rhat the 2nd line will need to produce offense so they move him to wing with the idea to now worry about producing (while still fulfilling the lesser defensive responsibilities of a winger). They add a strong 2 way center on the line to facilitate this

In other words, this was done for the benefit of the team, and it seems to be working

Makes sense. Trouble is that Names isn't quite up to the job.

I would like to see them take a look at Kupari in the role of temp 2C. Not sure it would work but he would add both size and speed to the 2nd line. They would lose experience.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't disagree with your observation, but I think players are more understanding and patient then many fans are with their usage. Sports in general is pretty conservative and these guys have all been rookies and veterans at different levels throughout their careers. Coaches do more than manage on ice performance they manage 23 personalities in the room and on the ice. All these guys have experienced the benefits of being a veteran and some of the drawbacks of being lower on the totem pole. Coaches try to balance this out and have harmony and everyone pulling in the same direction. As long as a team is winning vets will always get a little extra benefit of the doubt. A dozen years from now, Perfetti will no doubt experience the benefits of being a vet when he has younger players nipping at his heels. Perfetti will gradually get more minutes and a bigger load as time goes on and likely push a few players down, but harmony often requires this to be gradual with vets giving way with appreciation of what the younger player has to offer.

I don't disagree with this - except where the 2nd line with vet Names and vet Fly gets less 5v5 TOI than the 4th line with 137 games Kup and 78 games Gus and 109 game Barron.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Perfetan isn’t strong enough to hold the 2C position (yet) sorry but that’s the plain truth!

still think he was gifted the 2C spot before being ready or earning it, just my opinion, lack of size and speed is his downside no matter what

OK on your first para. No idea what you mean that he was given the spot. He was the best (only) candidate for the job if Vilardi was to play with Scheif.

Don't know what you think a player in his position should be required to do in order to "earn" the spot. Do you think he should play 2-3 years on the 4th line?

The only criteria for 'earning' a spot should be being the best candidate for it. Names is clearly not that. He is only a temp.

 

[Buffdog]

Perfetan isn’t strong enough to hold the 2C position (yet) sorry but that’s the plain truth!

still think he was gifted the 2C spot before being ready or earning it, just my opinion, lack of size and speed is his downside no matter what

2C is a role you can only grow into by doing it. He's not there yet, but he will be

 

[Atoyot]

"we drafted him as a centreman and we’re going to give him every opportunity to play centre.” -Rick Bowness

 

[MardyBum]

Managing personalities. Jesus f***ing christ.

 

[sipowicz]

OK on your first para. No idea what you mean that he was given the spot. He was the best (only) candidate for the job if Vilardi was to play with Scheif.

Don't know what you think a player in his position should be required to do in order to "earn" the spot. Do you think he should play 2-3 years on the 4th line?

The only criteria for 'earning' a spot should be being the best candidate for it. Names is clearly not that. He is only a temp.

Don't think Perfetan is good enough for 2C and the decade long search for a 2C continues!~

 

[surixon]

I don't disagree with your observation, but I think players are more understanding and patient then many fans are with their usage. Sports in general is pretty conservative and these guys have all been rookies and veterans at different levels throughout their careers. Coaches do more than manage on ice performance they manage 23 personalities in the room and on the ice. All these guys have experienced the benefits of being a veteran and some of the drawbacks of being lower on the totem pole. Coaches try to balance this out and have harmony and everyone pulling in the same direction. As long as a team is winning vets will always get a little extra benefit of the doubt. A dozen years from now, Perfetti will no doubt experience the benefits of being a vet when he has younger players nipping at his heels. Perfetti will gradually get more minutes and a bigger load as time goes on and likely push a few players down, but harmony often requires this to be gradual with vets giving way with appreciation of what the younger player has to offer.

To some extent I agree but ultimately a coach still has to use his pieces as ultimately as possible. Sometimes seniority is a hindrance in that regard. I think communication is absolutely key here. It's where I think Friedman made a good point, the player needs to be clearly communicated with and onboard.

With regards to patience I think ultimately it depends on the individual player. JoMo for example seemed fine with gradually working his way from the second pairing into special teams and then to a top pairing. He bridged and signed long term as soon as he could. Whereas Laine wanted nothing to do with that. While Trouba wanted out for other reasons, his agent got up on a soap box and ripped his usage as a reason for his hold out and subsequent trade request. Kids nowadays aren't as willing to wait as their predecessors.

Also I'm not advocating for Cole to get first line minutes and top PP usage. I'm only advocating he be deployed how most second line players are deployed and that he be put in situations like 3 on 3 and 4 on 4 where his skills can be utilized to help the team win. Right now he's being deployed more like a 4th line player and he's earned more then that hierarchy or no.

 

[KingBogo]

To some extent I agree but ultimately a coach still has to use his pieces as ultimately as possible. Sometimes seniority is a hindrance in that regard. I think communication is absolutely key here. It's where I think Friedman made a good point, the player needs to be clearly communicated with and onboard.

With regards to patience I think ultimately it depends on the individual player. JoMo for example seemed fine with gradually working his way from the second pairing into special teams and then to a top pairing. He bridged and signed long term as soon as he could. Whereas Laine wanted nothing to do with that. While Trouba wanted out for other reasons, his agent got up on a soap box and ripped his usage as a reason for his hold out and subsequent trade request. Kids nowadays aren't as willing to wait as their predecessors.

Also I'm not advocating for Cole to get first line minutes and top PP usage. I'm only advocating he be deployed how most second line players are deployed and that he be put in situations like 3 on 3 and 4 on 4 where his skills can be utilized to help the team win. Right now he's being deployed more like a 4th line player and he's earned more then that hierarchy or no.

There is no indication Perfetti is unhappy, he actually seems to be embracing a mentor relationship with Schiefele. For me anyways I am content to let things play out. I'm confident that Cole will quickly rise up the ranks and gain more and more opportunity and responsibility. Early on with the team back I'd get frustrated by such things but I find it much more enjoyable and a hell of a lot less stressful to let things play out trusting that the cream will rise to the top.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

He didn’t get bowled over once vs Detroit. This is a positive.

 

[Mud Turtle]

I wasn’t able to watch the game yesterday, but just put it on tonight. On the Jets first goal, I said to myself “whoa, self, who was that who passed from the point across ice like that to Ehlers? We don’t usually see that.”
It was Perfetti. He’s such a talent and will only get better.
Love his game and he’ll be a full time center soon enough.

 

[surixon]

There is no indication Perfetti is unhappy, he actually seems to be embracing a mentor relationship with Schiefele. For me anyways I am content to let things play out. I'm confident that Cole will quickly rise up the ranks and gain more and more opportunity and responsibility. Early on with the team back I'd get frustrated by such things but I find it much more enjoyable and a hell of a lot less stressful to let things play out trusting that the cream will rise to the top.

There is no indication Perfetti is unhappy, he actually seems to be embracing a mentor relationship with Schiefele. For me anyways I am content to let things play out. I'm confident that Cole will quickly rise up the ranks and gain more and more opportunity and responsibility. Early on with the team back I'd get frustrated by such things but I find it much more enjoyable and a hell of a lot less stressful to let things play out trusting that the cream will rise to the top.

Oh I doubt he's unhappy either. He also is intelligent and likely understands what they have planed for him. But it is a contract year for him so he likely wants to also earn more time as the year goes on to produce more points to maximize his next deal.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

There is no indication Perfetti is unhappy, he actually seems to be embracing a mentor relationship with Schiefele. For me anyways I am content to let things play out. I'm confident that Cole will quickly rise up the ranks and gain more and more opportunity and responsibility. Early on with the team back I'd get frustrated by such things but I find it much more enjoyable and a hell of a lot less stressful to let things play out trusting that the cream will rise to the top.

And I too find it a lot less stressful knowing that at some point the cream will curdle.

 

[FonRiesen]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Don't think Perfetan is good enough for 2C and the decade long search for a 2C continues!~

OK. That's an opinion. But it is not what you posted earlier.

 

[larmex99]

Having Overcharge as his agent is a concern. Having someone whispering in your ear that you should be treated better and your career is not on the arc that it should be will take a toll.

 

[KingBogo]

Oh I doubt he's unhappy either. He also is intelligent and likely understands what they have planed for him. But it is a contract year for him so he likely wants to also earn more time as the year goes on to produce more points to maximize his next deal.

Everyone wants to earn more, but I’m guessing that Perfetti will almost certainly get a bridge deal following this season. It makes sense from his position as he will unlikely have the body of work for the long term contract he would want. Also from the team’s standpoint they would want him on a lower salary to afford to keep more vets around for the first couple years of Helly and Scheifele’s deals.