Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

I won't try to argue what has happened in the past as I don't track those stats like some here are capable of, all I want is to ice the best team. If someone like Perfetti or Heinola (or anyone else) is better than what we are icing at the time (in a similar role), then play them. That's my simplistic view of how to win games and make me less frustrated with the team

Well said.
Just play the best players regardless if they are a veteran or rookie.

 

[KingBogo]

NHL is a young man's game now. Not saying rushing players is the right thing, but having productive ELC contracts contributing is the only way we will truly be a cup contender.

Let's stop somehow pretending the Bittetto, Beaulieu, Dahlstrom, Sbisa era of the past few years was somehow a success.

Frankly, I'd rather ice young players with potential and lose more games in the short term than go through what we did the past few years.

Being in the mediocre middle is the ultimate sports purgatory. No chance at winning it all, and little to no hope at getting better

A young man’s game not a teenager’s game. Very rarely is a player really ready to contribute as a teenager unless they are an elite top 3 talent. Some can hold their head above water but they are still 3-5 years away from the start of their prime.

 

[surixon]

A young man’s game not a teenager’s game. Very rarely is a player really ready to contribute as a teenager unless they are an elite top 3 talent. Some can hold their head above water but they are still 3-5 years away from the start of their prime.

I mean most draft boards had Cole as an elite top 5 talent. Him falling fortuitously to us doesn't change that.

Anyhow he will prove himself to be ready
Or not in camp.

 

[Whodey204]

This myth never seems to die.

Ehlers had 174 minutes with Thorburn in his rookie season, and over 535 minutes with Scheifele, Little or Perreault. So he played less than 25% of his rookie season with Thorburn, and about 75% on the 1st or 2nd line.

Difference of opinon. To me, 5% is insignificant, 15% and up certainly is not.

I would be much more confident if our coach had led teams past round one a significant percentage of the time. He's certainly proven to be insignificant in that regard!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Would be a valid point if Maurice hadn’t been here for 7 years already and the Connor case being just one example.

Perfetti could have a knockout amazing camp and I can 100% guarantee you right now he will not be on the Jets and will be on the Moose to start the year.

Who was the last prospect to "have a knockout amazing camp" in his D+2 year and not be on the Jets roster opening day?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I can give you one from this season that is actually decent.........Heinola.

True - but he made the opening roster a year earlier. Got 8 games, as I recall. Then there was Gustafsson that same year. Got 22 games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It comes down to if he's ready to come in and contribute. If he is and wins a spot then he should play ala players like Point. If he's not then sure send him for some more seasoning.

Seasoning him just for the sake of seasoning if he's ready isn't something we should be practicing.

Over-ripening prospects can be just as bad as under-ripening.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Let’s slow down on this guy a bit. Guy is the size of a child still. Let’s let him fill out and get stronger before we rush him in. He’s already going to be that soft Jordan eberle type of player.

I don't think a single post has favoured rushing him in any way.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Just like Heinola…… he will play less than 10 NHL games this year and his ELC contract will slide to 3 years remaining starting next year!

Stastny has his spot for 2021-22 year!

I see antlers on his Jersey ….. for the foreseeable future!!!!!

Probably, yes. But not written in stone.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Do you remember Ehlers slugging it out with Thorburn early in his career? What about Trouba having to drag Mark Stuart around year after year? What about Kyle Connor being sent to the moose in 2017, and the only reason he was called up was because of injuries. Those 4 games played for the moose that season sure must have got him ready for the big leagues!

Those vets like Cody Eakin sure look great playing as a 2C too

In 24 seasons as a coach, Maurice has taken his team past the first round of the playoffs exactly 3 times. Enough said.

Forgive me for not giving him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to judging talent.

Connor was terrible in TC that year. He didn't need to go to the AHL to be trained. He needed to be sent down for an attitude adjustment. Fortunately, he was man enough to get the message and come back ready to work after just 4 games.

Sending KC down might just be the best bit of coaching Maurice has ever done. Unless he deserves credit for helping to turn Buff around after he had been put on a wing by Noel. Right move by Noel at the time too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So, a 19 year old rookie plays on the 4th line for 20 games or so, and the rest of the time in the top 6, and somehow that's an indication that he was torpedoed by his coach? I think it's a weak case and way overblown on this board.

I think this argument has gone off the rails. But I also think you are mis-stating a quarter of his minutes = a quarter of the games in a season. 15 minutes on the 4th line does not = 15 minutes on the 2nd or 3rd where it is 1 game. 15 minutes on the 4th line is 3 games.

But I think the point that is getting lost here is that Ehlers really wasn't ready that year, but they did not want to send him back to Halifax. So he was spotted here and there to ease him in, at least for the first half of the season.

I don't think Maurice has resisted playing young players - when they are clearly ready. When they are close, but not quite, he does not give them a lot of opportunity to develop in the NHL.

 

[libertarian]

Over-ripening prospects can be just as bad as under-ripening.

How does a player become "over ripen"? Why is a player killing it in the AHL waiting for a injury on the big club to get his chance bad for the player or the NHL team?

If a player is over ripen in the AHL that just means that when he gets his chance in the NHL the odds are very good that when he gets his chance he will force his way onto the NHL team permanently

I see zero downside of a great young prospect being over ripened in the AHL.

 

[Sweech]

Is Maurice the new Pavelec?

Maybe that’s harsh on Maurice because Maurice is still decent but the over the top praise and defense of him is a bit much. I still think he’s the single largest factor that is currently holding the team back.

The guy still has his flaws and I still think that no matter how Perfetti does in camp he will be starting the season on the moose.

 

[mondena]

Difference of opinon. To me, 5% is insignificant, 15% and up certainly is not.

I would be much more confident if our coach had led teams past round one a significant percentage of the time. He's certainly proven to be insignificant in that regard!

Teams have about a 25% chance of going past the 1st round. So far with the Jets, Maurice has gone past the first round twice in 7 years. So if that is your primary metric for determining the value of a coach, he has delivered for us!

 

[BigZ65]

Perfetti has a lot riding on Pionk and Copp’s cap number for this season.

If we’re pinching pennies to stay under the guys on ELC are at a disadvantage.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

How does a player become "over ripen"? Why is a player killing it in the AHL waiting for a injury on the big club to get his chance bad for the player or the NHL team?

If a player is over ripen in the AHL that just means that when he gets his chance in the NHL the odds are very good that when he gets his chance he will force his way onto the NHL team permanently

I see zero downside of a great young prospect being over ripened in the AHL.

Keeping them in the minors long after they are ready is what I mean by over-ripening. I think they become discouraged, resentful and slip into bad habits eventually.

When they are "ready", really ready, they need to be given their chance. They should not have to wait for an injury.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Keeping them in the minors long after they are ready is what I mean by over-ripening. I think they become discouraged, resentful and slip into bad habits eventually.

When they are "ready", really ready, they need to be given their chance. They should not have to wait for an injury.

When I am boiling an egg…… if I take them out early ….. they are to soft/ runny!

 

[Teemusalami204]

Is Maurice the new Pavelec?

Maybe that’s harsh on Maurice because Maurice is still decent but the over the top praise and defense of him is a bit much. I still think he’s the single largest factor that is currently holding the team back.

The guy still has his flaws and I still think that no matter how Perfetti does in camp he will be starting the season on the moose.

Maybe him being on the moose is chevys call. Needs his elc to slide past the big contracts years of helly wheeler and sheif.

 

[jetsfaneh]

I think Stastny in the top 6 for the upcoming year is written in pen for PoMo.

Sure, Perfetti can make a case in camp but I think the thinking is having him in the A this year and to take that Stastny top 6 spot next year.

Injuries could change this narrative though.

 

[Flair Hay]

Keeping them in the minors long after they are ready is what I mean by over-ripening. I think they become discouraged, resentful and slip into bad habits eventually.

When they are "ready", really ready, they need to be given their chance. They should not have to wait for an injury.

A 20 year old player still eligible for junior hockey is not an over ripening prospect. The AHL is a higher level of play than he would be playing if it was junior or NHL...

He still has things to work on.

Maybe he gets a shot with a top six injury. Throwing a guy into the mix full time is way, way worse than making someone wait a little longer for their opportunity.

When was the last time a prospect was ruined by spending extra time in junior or AHL?? Maybe it's happened but I honestly can't remember.

 

[surixon]

Keeping them in the minors long after they are ready is what I mean by over-ripening. I think they become discouraged, resentful and slip into bad habits eventually.

When they are "ready", really ready, they need to be given their chance. They should not have to wait for an injury.

Yup, it's about development as well. You need to keep stretching the best young players so that they continue to grow. If a player is left in a league they are clearly too good for they aren't challenged or grow enough.

We talk about Cole's game accelerating a lot last year and a reason for that is he was pushed to improve his foot speed, to learn to do different things to ay against pros.

Not saying that is Cole next year but I'd imagine based on what I've seen he won't need much more AHL time. The same goes for Heionla who I don't see as needing much if any additional AHL time.

 

[scelaton]

I think all this talk about over vs under-ripening is a bit simplistic. Every team wants to promote their young players at just the right time, but multiple other factors get in the way--ELCs, competition at the position in question, unwillingness to put a veteran on waivers, the need to 'win now', physical immaturity, etc.

Looking at all those factors, the Jets tend to err on the side of caution and long-term development, which I support in general.

I'd give Cole another year to physically develop and really separate himself from the AHL pack. If he is 'tearing it up' by the end of season, then call him up as needed.

Heinola is ready now, but suddenly there is no room, which is a shame. I am, however, comforted by the fact that he will be an injury call-up and none of our other D was playing regularly in the NHL at the age of 20. Looking back >10 years, Trouba and Bogosian are the only exceptions I can recall, and they were both physically much more mature than Heinola. (I'll bet, in retrospect, Bogo wished he had been more mature in other ways.)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When I am boiling an egg…… if I take them out early ….. they are to soft/ runny!

And how are they if you leave them in for 10 minutes?

NOBODY here is suggesting taking any eggs out early. Every single post has been qualified with a big IF he is ready. Every single one.

 

[Sweech]

Maybe him being on the moose is chevys call. Needs his elc to slide past the big contracts years of helly wheeler and sheif.

Yeah quite possibly. I didn’t even originally intend it to be a criticism, more just a statement of fact that Perfetti will be on the moose to start the season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

A 20 year old player still eligible for junior hockey is not an over ripening prospect. The AHL is a higher level of play than he would be playing if it was junior or NHL...

He still has things to work on.

Maybe he gets a shot with a top six injury. Throwing a guy into the mix full time is way, way worse than making someone wait a little longer for their opportunity.

When was the last time a prospect was ruined by spending extra time in junior or AHL?? Maybe it's happened but I honestly can't remember.

It is all about the individual being ready. Some are ready right out of the draft. Everybody accepts that.

But there seems to be an all or none belief here. If a player is not among the top 3 picks, he cannot be ready out of the draft. Further, if he is not ready in D+1, he also cannot be ready in D+2. It then takes a minimum of D+3 and probably D+4.

Silly idea. There are those few who are ready in D+1, a slightly larger number should be ready in D+2 and a much larger number in D+3. The rest take longer. But it all varies by individual.

It is entirely possible that Perfetti is ready in D+2. He has had a helluva development year with WJC, WC and AHL, followed by what sounds like a very strong off-season of development.

That said, it is still more likely that he needs further development in the AHL. But ripening, under-ripening, over-ripening is strictly an individual thing.

To repeat - no one has advocated rushing him. Everyone is saying IF and only IF he is ready. Not just a little closer to ready than he was a year ago - ready. Period.

IF he is ready, he should play. IF he is not ready, he should not play. Very simple.