Player Discussion Cole Caufield: The little man with the big future.

[SOLR]

That comment about Hughes turning Caufield as a ‘’30 goal scorer’’ overnight is aging very badly and it’s only a year… lol as if he needs Hughe to score 30, everyone knew it was caufield’s floor.

Suzuki is doing it. Not sure what is the aging badly part? lol, this is too much; now, if you don't predict the exact amount of goals or play it safe you are making a "false statement".

"I's not 30, it's 50 correct yourself, feel my superior hindsight!"

Your post is going to age badly.

"Everyone knew...." you always look bad when you appropriate something that happened in the past to build a false narrative.

 

[SlafySZN]

Suzuki is doing it. Not sure what is the aging badly part? lol, this is too much; now, if you don't predict the exact amount of goals or play it safe you are making a "false statement".

"I's not 30, it's 50 correct yourself, feel my superior hindsight!"

Your post is going to age badly.

"Everyone knew...." you always look bad when you appropriate something that happened in the past to build a false narrative.

Suzuki hasn’t even assisted half of Caufield’s goal this season, lol. Not really doing it.

 

[Mrb1p]

We. Are. Armia.

Proposal: - Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

We don't have the same definition of elite if you think Charlie McAvoy is one. Game changers are most often than not found early in the first round. Charlie "32 points career high defenseman" McAvoy is not one of them.of course he’s not elite in your book, he wasn’t picked top 3

forums.hfboards.com

Bonus Hoffman comparison.

Proposal: - Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

We don't have the same definition of elite if you think Charlie McAvoy is one. Game changers are most often than not found early in the first round. Charlie "32 points career high defenseman" McAvoy is not one of them.of course he’s not elite in your book, he wasn’t picked top 3

forums.hfboards.com

Im oofing so hard right now

Yeah, I have no problem with the Hoffman categorization comparison. Hoffman in his prime was more useful and faster than he is now, but Caufield is in the same category: very much a 1 one-way goal scorer. Caufield on the 3rd line will never be useful. Caufield is obviously more talented/better than Hoffman. Categorization isn't an evaluation of quality at the individual level - it's just a description of the role.

That trade proposal was Caufield for Slaf, in order to come out of the same draft with 2 blue chips (potentially more, I was not descriptive of the exact trade), the key aspect of this argument is that I don't believe (yet) in Caufield being the kind of player you win with. You guys are sold on Caufield, and I like that he's scoring a lot, but I'm not sure if I send him out there in critical playoffs situation, in a tight series. Same thing with Zegras in Anaheim, I've been expecting them to bounce back and he just can't get involved enough. Razzle Dazzle.

Yikes I don't want to ridicule you but I kinda have to. Head to the corner of the room and wear your dunce hat.

 

[le_sean]

You guys are sold on Caufield, and I like that he's scoring a lot, but I'm not sure if I send him out there in critical playoffs situation, in a tight series.

Like against Vegas?

 

[SOLR]

Like against Vegas?

You mean in a playoffs where we had no pressure to win? The lack of pressure on that team, and Price pulling the boat, were 2 big factors that have disappeared and won't come back. I'm not saying he can't score, including big goals, he can.

Thought experiment here, if Caufield was a Maple Leafs / Tampa, who have the pressure to win and are set in assets that compete with Caufield, how much would Caufield be used in these situations? That's what I'm skeptical about.

Think about the team in 5 years, when hopefully we'll have some pressure to win, what we know right now before 2 high picks in 2023.

Beck, Roy, Mesar, Slaf - might all be better 2 ways players than Caufield.

Then if we get a Carlsson/Yager and a guy like Heidt this year, Caufield becomes someone you use on the PP a lot, and then in equal-strength scenarios, there will be many better options.

 

[SOLR]

Yikes I don't want to ridicule you but I kinda have to. Head to the corner of the room and wear your dunce hat.

Let's wait 3-5 years, I'm pretty comfortable with those statements. I might be wrong then, but if I am, it's because Caufield develops in ways that are not linear from what he is doing right now. I'm fine with that outcome too. I'm not anti-Caufield, I'm anti-building a team that can't win Stanley Cups. For this reason, I'm analyzing (trying to - it's not a simple business) the real strengths and weaknesses of our players.

 

[Habs Icing]

You mean in a playoffs where we had no pressure to win? The lack of pressure on that team, and Price pulling the boat, were 2 big factors that have disappeared and won't come back. I'm not saying he can't score, including big goals, he can.

Thought experiment here, if Caufield was a Maple Leafs / Tampa, who have the pressure to win and are set in assets that compete with Caufield, how much would Caufield be used in these situations? That's what I'm skeptical about.

Think about the team in 5 years, when hopefully we'll have some pressure to win, what we know right now before 2 high picks in 2023.

Beck, Roy, Mesar, Slaf - might all be better 2 ways players than Caufield.

Then if we get a Carlsson/Yager and a guy like Heidt this year, Caufield becomes someone you use on the PP a lot, and then in equal-strength scenarios, there will be many better options.

I agree with you that Caufield has holes in his game. Huge holes. But he makes up for those holes with his goal-scoring. None of the players you mentioned will come close to his offense. Also, who's to say he won't improve? From your post, it sounds like you would say it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Let's wait 3-5 years, I'm pretty comfortable with those statements. I might be wrong then, but if I am, it's because Caufield develops in ways that are not linear from what he is doing right now. I'm fine with that outcome too. I'm not anti-Caufield, I'm anti-building a team that can't win Stanley Cups. For this reason, I'm analyzing (trying to - it's not a simple business) the real strengths and weaknesses of our players.

My man, he is literally on a 48 goal pace... ?

 

[SOLR]

I agree with you that Caufield has holes in his game. Huge holes. But he makes up for those holes with his goal-scoring. None of the players you mentioned will come close to his offense. Also, who's to say he won't improve? From your post, it sounds like you would say it.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying if he improves in a linear fashion from now, the holes will still be there. There's holes he can't fix. I'm really hoping he takes the Gionta route - I'm not negative about him.

 

[Habs Icing]

I'm not saying that, I'm saying if he improves in a linear fashion from now, the holes will still be there. There's holes he can't fix. I'm really hoping he takes the Gionta route - I'm not negative about him.

Huh?! What do you mean?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Like against Vegas?

Or Toronto.

Or Winnipeg.

Or Tampa.

 

[SOLR]

My man, he is literally on a 48 goal pace... ?

Yep, that's great - I don't give a shit really about this year's production level - I'm looking at their game - he's -9. We are tanking, he gets 100% of offensive opportunities, he has literally no internal competition and we are not trying to win. I'm sure he can be a 60 goal scorer at this point. But if does that while we are losing - what do we want here?

 

[SOLR]

Huh?! What do you mean?

Gionta became progressively more effective and well-rounded to his prime level. The Gionta we got was on the back side of his career and slowing down.

 

[Habs Icing]

Gionta became progressively more effective and well-rounded to his prime level. The Gionta we got was on the back side of his career and slowing down.

I know I'm going into prehistoric times but I can see Caufield going ala Yvan Cournoyer. He obviously doesn't have the relative speed Yvan had but Cournoyer went from a player Blake only used on the power play to one that Bowman would use to close off one-goal games. I see a lot of similarities in their game.

 

[SOLR]

I know I'm going into prehistoric times but I can see Caufield going ala Yvan Cournoyer. He obviously doesn't have the relative speed Yvan had but Cournoyer went from a player Blake only used on the power play to one that Bowman would use to close off one-goal games. I see a lot of similarities in their game.

It could happen - Caufield needs to get faster it's a big part of that.

 

[tooji]

You mean in a playoffs where we had no pressure to win? The lack of pressure on that team, and Price pulling the boat, were 2 big factors that have disappeared and won't come back. I'm not saying he can't score, including big goals, he can.

Thought experiment here, if Caufield was a Maple Leafs / Tampa, who have the pressure to win and are set in assets that compete with Caufield, how much would Caufield be used in these situations? That's what I'm skeptical about.

Think about the team in 5 years, when hopefully we'll have some pressure to win, what we know right now before 2 high picks in 2023.

Beck, Roy, Mesar, Slaf - might all be better 2 ways players than Caufield.

Then if we get a Carlsson/Yager and a guy like Heidt this year, Caufield becomes someone you use on the PP a lot, and then in equal-strength scenarios, there will be many better options.

These are professional hockey players, the pressure to win is constant, even in game 47 of a lost season. In game 5, 6, or 7 of a playoff series the pressure is ridiculously high.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yep, that's great - I don't give a shit really about this year's production level - I'm looking at their game - he's -9. We are tanking, he gets 100% of offensive opportunities, he has literally no internal competition and we are not trying to win. I'm sure he can be a 60 goal scorer at this point. But if does that while we are losing - what do we want here?

I think youre very misplaced as to what Caufield is lol. Its like you want a team full of Danaults or something ?

 

[TomKosto]

I think youre very misplaced as to what Caufield is lol. Its like you want a team full of Danaults or something ?

Exactly, you need a good mix. We need to find our new Danault though hehe. I would like for us to draft so size in the first round. If we could get one of Carlsson/Fantilli and Sale/Dvorsky with our two first rounders, it would be insane. I really like Cristall and Benson too. We need some talent in the top6.

 

[SOLR]

I think youre very misplaced as to what Caufield is lol. Its like you want a team full of Danaults or something ?

That is not what I said at all. You do need a mix, but you also want most of your top players, in the most key roles to be well-rounded. My issue is choosing top players that are uni-dimensional to an extreme and getting diminishing winning value.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Huh?! What do you mean?

Holy shit, my sides lol.

 

[SlafySZN]

You mean in a playoffs where we had no pressure to win? The lack of pressure on that team, and Price pulling the boat, were 2 big factors that have disappeared and won't come back. I'm not saying he can't score, including big goals, he can.

Thought experiment here, if Caufield was a Maple Leafs / Tampa, who have the pressure to win and are set in assets that compete with Caufield, how much would Caufield be used in these situations? That's what I'm skeptical about.

Think about the team in 5 years, when hopefully we'll have some pressure to win, what we know right now before 2 high picks in 2023.

Beck, Roy, Mesar, Slaf - might all be better 2 ways players than Caufield.

Then if we get a Carlsson/Yager and a guy like Heidt this year, Caufield becomes someone you use on the PP a lot, and then in equal-strength scenarios, there will be many better options.

On the PP?

Better option at even strength?

Cole has 40 of his 50 career goals at even strength. 60 of his 80 career points are even strength.

What you said doesn’t make any sense.

And by the way he is not ‘’uni-dimensional to an extreme’’ he’s a 21 years old player in his 2nd year.

 

[SOLR]

On the PP?

Better option at even strength?

Cole has 40 of his 50 career goals at even strength. 60 of his 80 career points are even strength.

What you said doesn’t make any sense.

And by the way he is not ‘’uni-dimensional to an extreme’’ he’s a 21 years old player in his 2nd year.

He's always been uni-dimensional, I know him since he's 16 - he's not going to change suddenly.

Caufield is a good scorer, he can score in any situation. When I say "PP" vs. even strength I was talking about these few higher pressures situations, where is minus 9 is indicative that you are more likely to lose with him on the ice despite his high production.

Let's say our own 1st ends up top 5 and Florida's between 10-15.

We draft a foward with our pick, and with Florida's Wallinder, Gulyayev, Dragicevic and Sandin-Pellikka are all there. What do you do ?

Likely forwards for me as well. Too much quality this year to pass up on it. There are quite a few good Ds next year.

And then I draft a G with a late 1st we'll get.

 

[le_sean]

You mean in a playoffs where we had no pressure to win? The lack of pressure on that team, and Price pulling the boat, were 2 big factors that have disappeared and won't come back. I'm not saying he can't score, including big goals, he can.

Thought experiment here, if Caufield was a Maple Leafs / Tampa, who have the pressure to win and are set in assets that compete with Caufield, how much would Caufield be used in these situations? That's what I'm skeptical about.

Think about the team in 5 years, when hopefully we'll have some pressure to win, what we know right now before 2 high picks in 2023.

Beck, Roy, Mesar, Slaf - might all be better 2 ways players than Caufield.

Then if we get a Carlsson/Yager and a guy like Heidt this year, Caufield becomes someone you use on the PP a lot, and then in equal-strength scenarios, there will be many better options.

Manipulating actual statistical evidence to fit your fantasy narrative. The kid joined a team as a rookie with no NHL experience or chemistry yet was one of our top offensive players, and especially good against two big and fast teams in the Jets and Golden Knights. You know, kind of like PK Subban in the 2009 run. How did he end up handling pressure going forward?

But keep going, try to convince yourself that he’d somehow be bad on Tampa because of “pressure”

 

[SOLR]

Manipulating actual statistical evidence to fit your fantasy narrative. The kid joined a team as a rookie with no NHL experience or chemistry yet was one of our top offensive players, and especially good against two big and fast teams in the Jets and Golden Knights. You know, kind of like PK Subban in the 2009 run. How did he end up handling pressure going forward?

But keep going, try to convince yourself that he’d somehow be bad on Tampa because of “pressure”

That's not what I said at all. I was talking about pressure on the team to win. Because the pressure would modify the coach's behaviour, and the data would not go toward Caufield, at least not right now (if he had internal competition...)

There was no internal competition against Toronto, Vegas etc. The Habs are dilapidated in talent, so if you are not half-dumb, you play him right now. It might be really different once we draft twice in the top 15 this year and the rest of our younglings mature. Suddenly you don't send the guy who is minus 9, even if he scores 50. You prefer the 35-goal guy who is +20.

As far as inventing fantasies, I guess having no intent to have a real discussion is a good start.

 

[le_sean]

That's not what I said at all. I was talking about pressure on the team to win. Because the pressure would modify the coach's behaviour, and the data would not go toward Caufield, at least not right now (if he had internal competition...)

There was no internal competition against Toronto, Vegas etc. The Habs are dilapidated in talent, so if you are not half-dumb, you play him right now. It might be really different once we draft twice in the top 15 this year and the rest of our younglings mature. Suddenly you don't send the guy who is minus 9, even if he scores 50. You prefer the 35-goal guy who is +20.

As far as inventing fantasies, I guess having no intent to have a real discussion is a good start.

The argument is the ridiculous claim that you wouldn’t want to play him in a critical playoff matchup. The counter argument was he already did well in critical playoff matchups. What you keep spinning is a fabrication made up in your head since he’s already PROVEN THE OPPOSITE.