Confirmed Signing with Link: [COL] D Oliver Kylington signs with the Avalanche (1 year, $1.05M)

[Avsfan1921]

I never take an L when I'm right. He's not a net positive player. I was alone in saying we shouldn't sign Huberdeau too. I'm fine being alone in saying Kylington is better than Manson as well. That way once again I'll be the only person who is right.

And you shouldn’t when you’re right. But that’s not the case in your overall assessment of Manson. I don’t know Kylington as a player very well. Maybe he is better and good for you if that’s the case but your still dead wrong on Mansons play.

 

[HockeyScotty]

I never take an L when I'm right. He's not a net positive player. I was alone in saying we shouldn't sign Huberdeau too. I'm fine being alone in saying Kylington is better than Manson as well. That way once again I'll be the only person who is right.

Marner is "better" than Nichushkin but come playoff time I'd rather have Val (off-ice issues aside).
Pastrnak is "better" than Rantanen but come playoff time...

Kylington might be "better" at some aspects of ice hockey; especially things that are measureable like skating speed, but come crunch time I'd prefer Manson.

Why do you think guys like Ryan McDonagh, Luke Schenn, Matt Roy, Vladislav Gavrikov, Dylan Demelo, Brian Dumoulin, Radko Gudas, TJ Brodie, Ian Cole, Nick Jensen, Zach Bogosian, Kevin Bahl, Jamie Oleksiak, and Tyler Myers remain in-demand in the NHL while guys like Tyson Barrie, Justin Schultz, Kevin Shattenkirk, Tony DeAngelo, John Klingberg, and Calen Addison remain unemployed?

Those unemployed guys can probably skate circles around the first group.

But it's not a skills competition.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I'd love it if Kylington came in and played lights out. He'll get good matchups on the 3rd pair and I hope his skating can be utilized well (decision making is more important than skating; but if both are there then we have a gem).

That's always been an Oliver issue, plays faster than his mind can keep up with at times. But maybe he's at the age he can quiet those bad moments, although I suspect there will be the odd major f*** up. Being on a team that demands a lot of tempo should be a good spot for him.

These things are not mutually exclusive: Manson can have a role and so can Kylington/Brannstrom.

I think the Avs are doubling up their chances of a "rebound" candidate on the 3rd pair with those signings; kind of like Drouin/Tatar last year at F.

The Avs front-office have proven that they will do right by players by supporting them through NHLPA program and dealing with mental health concerns, and also finding them a new team if it doesn't work out here.

Manson is fine on the 2nd pair. Was one of the Avs better defenseman last postseason IMO. I was just saying that there's more potential value in this contract for OK58 than there is in Manson's 4.5. I don't really see how you could claim Kylington>Manson definitively considering he's only played 33 games the last two seasons but w/e, it's not completely outlandish.

They might actually make a good pair. I don't and never have seen much there with Brannstrom but you never know. Barring a Toews injury it seems unlikely but I hope to see a Kylington-Makar pairing at some point this season, for science.

 

[bert]

No, your assessment of Manson is incorrect. You're right about him being big and heavy. Wrong about him being able to play both ways. He neither moves the puck well nor defends well. He's been over 3 goals against per 60 for 3 straight seasons now and was almost 4 goals against per 60 in one of those seasons. By far the worst defender of Colorado's regular defensemen. He does see heavier defensive zone deployment that needs to be taken into account, but that's because he's a black hole offensively, not because he's good in his own end. There's a reason he only plays 17 minutes a night since he came to the Avs. It's because he's not very good.

Kylington in his last full season was half of a top 10 D pairing with Tanev. Granted, he's missed time and we still don't know if he'll get back to his 21-22 form or not. Colorado exploited a market inefficiency. It happens all the time. Good signing by them. The Manson trade? Bad move.

Tailor any advanced stats you want and fill your boots. Real hockey executives dont agree and its unanimous across the board. So who is incorrect.... You the internet poster... Or the professionals that are hall of famers like Joe Sakic..... Congrats on being able to read a spread sheet though.

Colorado has a cup!!!! Anyone that knows the sport watched and saw the impact Manson had. You just dont know what you are watching or arent watching at all. My first sentence stands in the previous post you quoted. Keep digging in your heels though. Your credibility is taking a beating.

Classic Eastern Conference take. He's big and mean sure but he's getting old and slow. Footspeed is waning and as a result he takes a lot of penalties, and he's always taken a lot of penalties so that's just going to get worse.

Kylington is one of the best skaters I've watched play for the Flames. The list of players that can keep up with McDavid in a straight line in this league is a short one but he's on it. The Avs are built on speed and transition, I suspect he's going to fit into their system very well.

Are all flames fans this terrible at evaluating hockey? Seems like an incredible and consistent trend throughout many threads. Footspeed is an issue... Have you wathched him play.

Kylington just signed in August for 1 million dollars. Maybe you need to reflect a little and realize that you dont know better than the entire hockey world.

 

[bert]

Marner is "better" than Nichushkin but come playoff time I'd rather have Val (off-ice issues aside).
Pastrnak is "better" than Rantanen but come playoff time...

Kylington might be "better" at some aspects of ice hockey; especially things that are measureable like skating speed, but come crunch time I'd prefer Manson.

Why do you think guys like Ryan McDonagh, Luke Schenn, Matt Roy, Vladislav Gavrikov, Dylan Demelo, Brian Dumoulin, Radko Gudas, TJ Brodie, Ian Cole, Nick Jensen, Zach Bogosian, Kevin Bahl, Jamie Oleksiak, and Tyler Myers remain in-demand in the NHL while guys like Tyson Barrie, Justin Schultz, Kevin Shattenkirk, Tony DeAngelo, John Klingberg, and Calen Addison remain unemployed?

Those unemployed guys can probably skate circles around the first group.

But it's not a skills competition.

They wont recognize the obvious. Or that Brannstrom, Lundqvist and Boqvist all didnt get qualified and this prize piece in Kylington didnt get signed until August....

 

[S E P H]

Couple thoughts:

1) Avs are just trying to fill the blueline out until Behrens is ready for NHL action and provide some "gatekeeper" 3rd pair guys for him and Malinski to prove they can overcome. Since they couldn't get a responsible physical defender on the 3rd pair (de Haan is closest) they are throwing numbers at it with depth being the solution; if someone gets hurt then next man up.

2) All of the blueliners (including Malinski) are subject to waivers so I think they will stay on the NHL roster and Avs will use their forwards on "paper moves" to accrue some more daily space throughout the year: Wagner, Kiviranta, and utilityman MacDonald ($2.325 million).

This would allow them to accrue enough cap space to get Nichushkin back in mid-November and still run thru early/mid December before needing to shed some NHL salary (equivalent AAV of $4.2 million over approximately). Who knows what will happen by then with injury/performance/etc.

Either Val gets moved out or Landeskog isn't healthy to stay in NHL; if not then the Avs will use performance of the new blueliners to determine their next move: does that mean Sam Girard gets traded if two of Brannstrom/Kylington/Behrens look great? Or do the Avs ship out Val (who should have 3 weeks of playing time to re-establish some value) and get a $2 million player in return?

I think it's the latter so that they can offer closer to market-rate extensions on Rantanen/Drouin and/or Georgiev with that space next year.

What a great and well-thought-out post. You need to post more often.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Are all flames fans this terrible at evaluating hockey? Seems like an incredible and consistent trend throughout many threads. Footspeed is an issue... Have you wathched him play.

Kylington just signed in August for 1 million dollars. Maybe you need to reflect a little and realize that you dont know better than the entire hockey world.

So sensitive lmao
Remember way back in 2021 when you guaranteed the Flames would be bottom 10 in the league and the Sens would be much much better? Darryl Sutter the dinosaur, Gaudreau washed up, Brady the better Tkachuk etc

Calgary finished the RS 1st in the Pacific with 111pts, Sens finished 7th in the Atlantic with 73. Didn't really turn out the way the great hockey evaluator had foreseen it did it?

I've watched him play plenty. He's a decent physical 2nd pair dman.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1547237082980040705

Funny to watch Avs fans come to his vehement defense here after trashing him in their threads all season.

Kylington signed for 1 million dollars in August because he has played 33 games in the last two seasons as he was dealing with his mental health. No where have I asserted that I know better than the entire hockey world , you're just tilting at windmills.

 

[HockeyScotty]

per NHL Edge 2023-24:

Top Skating Speed (mph)
Josh Manson 22.34 -vs- Oliver Kylington 22.44

Speed Bursts >20 (per game)
Josh Manson 0.82 -vs- Oliver Kylington 1.42

Speed Bursts 18-20 (per game)
Josh Manson 4.18 -vs- Oliver Kylington 4.52

Surprised to see Manson nearly match Kylington on Top Skating Speed; Kylington has higher volume of bursts per game however.

Top Shot Speed (mph)
Josh Manson 92.61 -vs- Oliver Kylington 93.39

Shots per Game
Josh Manson 1.62 -vs- Oliver Kylington 1.27

Surprised to see Kylington top Manson on Top Shot Speed; Manson is a higher volume shooter per TOI however.

Zone Time:
Josh Manson Offensive 41.3%/Neutral 18.0%/Defensive 40.6%
-vs- Oliver Kylington Offensive 41.1%/Neutral 17.9%/Defensive 41.1%

Fairly similiar deployment.

Blocked Shots per game
Josh Manson 1.43 -vs- Oliver Kylington 1.55
Net Takeaways/Giveaways per game
Josh Manson 0.04 -vs- Oliver Kylington -0.30

Surprised that Kylington had more blocks per game but Manson was more responsible with the puck.

Hits per game
Josh Manson 2.78 -vs- Oliver Kylington 0.73

Fights
Josh Manson 4 (2 wins, 2 draws) -vs- Oliver Kylington 0

Badass Dudes checked into their own teams bench in playoffs:
Josh Manson 1 (Jamie Benn) -vs- Oliver Kylington 0

Manson sweeps the physicality/toughness category

 

[bert]

So sensitive lmao
Remember way back in 2021 when you guaranteed the Flames would be bottom 10 in the league and the Sens would be much much better? Darryl Sutter the dinosaur, Gaudreau washed up, Brady the better Tkachuk etc

Calgary finished the RS 1st in the Pacific with 111pts, Sens finished 7th in the Atlantic with 73. Didn't really turn out the way the great hockey evaluator had foreseen it did it?

I've watched him play plenty. He's a decent physical 2nd pair dman.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1547237082980040705

Funny to watch Avs fans come to his vehement defense here after trashing him in their threads all season.

Kylington signed for 1 million dollars in August because he has played 33 games in the last two seasons because he was dealing with his mental health. No where have I asserted that I know better than the entire hockey world , you're just tilting at windmills.

I also remember when I said that Calgary should have rebuilt well before that and now you're stuck in purgatory losing Gaudreau for nothing and have contracts like Huberdeau. They should have sold before that season. They didnt have the pieces to win anything significant at the time the team make up was poor you just delayed the inevitable and burned assets for nothing.

Never said Brady was the better Tkachuk. Overall I was right about how bad the flames were and where they were trending.

Keep telling us how Kylington is better than Chabot and Manson. I am sure your opinion will be taken very seriously.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He's not playing top 4 minutes. He's never played even #5 minutes. He's always been around 17 minutes per night. Manson isn't good. That you think he is shows me how much you understand the sport.

The top 4 guys getting ES ice time on the Avs blueline the last two years have been Makar, Toews, Byram and Girard. How many D around the league do you think could beat out that 4 for ES ice time? How many would you trust more on the PK than Makar and Toews? Not being better than the best in the world doesn't mean you suck.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I also remember when I said that Calgary should have rebuilt well before that and now you're stuck in purgatory losing Gaudreau for nothing and have contracts like Huberdeau. They should have sold before that season. They didnt have the pieces to win anything significant at the time the team make up was poor you just delayed the inevitable and burned assets for nothing.

Never said Brady was the better Tkachuk. Overall I was right about how bad the flames were and where they were trending.

Anyone picking Calgary ahead of Ottawa must not have watched a single game.

Sure no one is saying Ottawa is good. But what I am saying is Calgary is really bad.

Calgary didn't under perform they were bad last year and are going to be even worse this year.

Ya for sure you nailed it bud. You're never wrong.

Keep telling us how Kylington is better than Chabot and Manson. I am sure your opinion will be taken very seriously.

More things I've never said. Those windmills growing extra arms and teeth now.

 

[Shane Diesel]

So sensitive lmao
Remember way back in 2021 when you guaranteed the Flames would be bottom 10 in the league and the Sens would be much much better? Darryl Sutter the dinosaur, Gaudreau washed up, Brady the better Tkachuk etc

Calgary finished the RS 1st in the Pacific with 111pts, Sens finished 7th in the Atlantic with 73. Didn't really turn out the way the great hockey evaluator had foreseen it did it?

I've watched him play plenty. He's a decent physical 2nd pair dman.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1547237082980040705

Funny to watch Avs fans come to his vehement defense here after trashing him in their threads all season.

Kylington signed for 1 million dollars in August because he has played 33 games in the last two seasons as he was dealing with his mental health. No where have I asserted that I know better than the entire hockey world , you're just tilting at windmills.

Do you happen to have a player card more recent than two years ago?

 

[Lunatik]

per NHL Edge 2023-24:

Top Skating Speed (mph)
Josh Manson 22.34 -vs- Oliver Kylington 22.44

Speed Bursts >20 (per game)
Josh Manson 0.82 -vs- Oliver Kylington 1.42

Speed Bursts 18-20 (per game)
Josh Manson 4.18 -vs- Oliver Kylington 4.52

Surprised to see Manson top Kylington on Top Skating Speed; Kylington has higher volume of bursts per game however.
Top Shot Speed (mph)
Josh Manson 92.61 -vs- Oliver Kylington 93.39

Shots per Game
Josh Manson 1.62 -vs- Oliver Kylington 1.27

Surprised to see Kylington top Manson on Top Shot Speed; Manson is a higher volume shooter per TOI however.

Zone Time:
Josh Manson Offensive 41.3%/Neutral 18.0%/Defensive 40.6%
-vs- Oliver Kylington Offensive 41.1%/Neutral 17.9%/Defensive 41.1%

Fairly similiar deployment.
Blocked Shots per game
Josh Manson 1.43 -vs- Oliver Kylington 1.55
Net Takeaways/Giveaways per game
Josh Manson 0.04 -vs- Oliver Kylington -0.30

Surprised that Kylington had more blocks per game but Manson was more responsible with the puck.

Hits per game
Josh Manson 2.78 -vs- Oliver Kylington 0.73

Fights
Josh Manson 4 (2 wins, 2 draws) -vs- Oliver Kylington 0

Badass Dudes checked into their own teams bench in playoffs:
Josh Manson 1 (Jamie Benn) -vs- Oliver Kylington 0

Manson sweeps the physicality/toughness category

Not to nitpick, but Kylington's top speed was higher by 0.1 per your numbers.

I do think those Edge numbers for skating are slightly skewed due to small sample size and the fact he'd played just 2 games with the Wranglers to get back up to "game speed", there is no chance his endurance was anywhere near where it would be usually when he returned.

That said, the entire argument is f***ing stupid, this is just another case of 1 poster turning a Flames related thread into a pissing contest, as they always do.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Do you happen to have a player card more recent than two years ago?

I don't no, not a JFresh patreon or any of the other twitter guys. I'm sure a persistent Google search could find one but my investment in this discussion of Josh Manson in a Kylington contract thread in August is at an end.

 

[Shane Diesel]

I don't no, not a JFresh patreon or any of the other twitter guys. I'm sure a persistent Google search could find one but my investment in this discussion of Josh Manson in a Kylington contract thread in August is at an end.

Fair enough. Was only asking out of curiosity and if you had quick access. Thanks for the response.

 

[shadow1]

My subjective opinion on Manson's time with Colorado:

• 2021-2022
  
  • Had some huge clutch moments in the playoffs but also mistake prone
  • Was firmly the Avs #5 (Makar, Toews, Byram, EJ), averaged <16:00 in WCF&SCF
• 2022-2023
  
  • IMO was clearly better than in '22, re-established as a top-4, took over a few particarly physical games
  • But barely played due to injury
  • Played through needing surgery in the playoffs, was absolutely brutal
• 2023-2024
  
  • Was a rock solid top-4 all year, including playoffs

That's how I've seen Manson's time with Colorado. Somewhat chaotic with 22-23 being a lost season, but his game has aged well.

He's definitely not Jacob Slavin on the defensive side. He's good in the corners and in front of the net, and his two-way game and puck moving ability are super underrated. However, he's prone to needless turnovers (mostly failing to clear the zone), and occasionally will take some weird positioning angles or be overly aggressive, which sometimes leads to chaos in the defensive zone.

All that said, he's unquestionably a top-4 defenseman. Or at least he has been with Colorado the last couple years. I haven't watched Kylington nearly as much as I have Manson, but the latter has a much larger body of work and is coming off a really strong season. Fortunately the Avalanche have both next season, and if Kylington has as good as season as Manson did last year (relative to his different skill set), Colorado's blue line is going to be loaded.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Manson is an aging overpaid #4 at best or #5 on a good blue line. It's not wrong to say he's extremely overrated due to being physical.

But Kylington barely gets a contract in August. And is likely done in the NHL by this time next year.

 

[Volica]

I also remember when I said that Calgary should have rebuilt well before that and now you're stuck in purgatory losing Gaudreau for nothing and have contracts like Huberdeau. They should have sold before that season. They didnt have the pieces to win anything significant at the time the team make up was poor you just delayed the inevitable and burned assets for nothing.

I mean, considering we're clearly in a rebuild now, it's not really purgatory.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

That's all we need to know, your hypothetical scenarios may or may not have happened the rest is conjecture. What we do know is he signed a 1 year deal for 1 million in August. Stick with the actual results there were still 29 other teams that had a chance even if your hypothetical scenario is correct.

Comparing Kylington to Chychrun is also hilarious but thats neither here nor there.

We have seen multiple skill d men that dont play physical be had for pennies this is no different.

Huh? Context is always important. If you go looking for a job and ask to get paid like you've been there for 10 years but you have a hole in your resume nobody is going to higher you.

You said that nobody wanted him. That is a fundamentally wrong statement. Had you said nobody wanted him at his asking price then fine, that's why it took a while for him to get a contract, because he had to change what he was asking for.

Who compared him to Chychrun?

 

[wetcoast]

The top 4 guys getting ES ice time on the Avs blueline the last two years have been Makar, Toews, Byram and Girard. How many D around the league do you think could beat out that 4 for ES ice time? How many would you trust more on the PK than Makar and Toews? Not being better than the best in the world doesn't mean you suck.

This is a very good signing for the AVS IMO, although I wonder if they can compete with their forwards for another SC run?

The west is stacked.

 

[Three On Zero]

He wanted 4 years from the Flames and they countered with 2. He didn’t budge off the 4 year ask and thought he’d get that in free agency. He overplayed his hand big time. Wish him all the best in Colorado.

Seems like a pretty strong stance to take after what he’s been through the last couple years. 4 years is a huge ask

 

[EdAVSfan]

The most important part of evaluating Manson is to undervalue his regular season play.

The Avs are not a team that requires Manson to play at a high level in the regular season. They have enough horses on D for that. Manson is here for his post season play. His style of play is one the Avs have very little of and difficult to quantify.

Manson is here for his playoff play.

 

[Lunatik]

Seems like a pretty strong stance to take after what he’s been through the last couple years. 4 years is a huge ask

As others have said, it sounds like Washington offered 4 years, then he turned back to let Calgary match, they said no, stayed firm on their 2 year offer and signed Bean... but in that time it took his agent to go to Calgary and back to the Caps they added Chychrun and pulled the offer.

Also it sounds like he was originally asking 3 years from the Flames until he got the other offer

His agent misplayed the situation badly

 

[Three On Zero]

As others have said, it sounds like Washington offered 4 years, then he turned back to let Calgary match, they said no, stayed firm on their 2 year offer and signed Bean... but in that time it took his agent to go to Calgary and back to the Caps they added Chychrun and pulled the offer.

Also it sounds like he was originally asking 3 years from the Flames until he got the other offer

His agent misplayed the situation badly

This makes more sense

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Do you happen to have a player card more recent than two years ago?

Here's Evolving Hockey's player card of him from this most recent season