Coaching is a serious problem.

Scriptor

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So why act like the players are under scrutiny? They’re not. It’s a free ride for everyone.

Fans who want to see more than this get informed that they’re bad fans by other fans. You couldn’t ask for an easier gig for the GM or Coach. They’re laughing.
I think the you are misinterpreting (deliberately or not) the situation.

For starters, I think that all fans want to see more from the Habs. Only, more realistic fans not only claimed that they were ready for the team's first actual full-on rebuild... EVER, but also realize that this takes more than three years to be done right -- And, even then, there won't be any guarantees that it ever leads to another Cup!

Fans getting informed that they are unrealistic about the timeline of the rebuild is not informing them that they are bad fans, or claiming that they shouldn't want to see more from their team.
 
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Scriptor

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Growth isn't nonstop and some prospects haven't grown as we'd hoped yet. Slaf is having a pretty tough year so far. Most of the young guys are young enough that we can still expect some improvement as they age, and the team has enough holes that it's reasonable to expect many players to improve if those holes ever get filled.

The problem is that most of the holes are roles like "top 2 D" and "play driving forward, ideally a center," that is to say holes that may not be filled properly any time soon. It's really easy for rebuilding teams to say "this player has not produced as we projected, we'll trade him for whatever we can get and draft someone else." Watch that player go to a good team that can put him on a line with other players who can open space, including some who need to be double covered, and watch the dumped player score now that he has some space.

I'm not talking about guys like Hyman who dig pucks for generational players and whose stats vanish if that player has a minimal decline, more Florida and Colorado who can pick up good players from bad teams and make them look good.

The habs have to hang on until they get more play drivers. Some may develop, but it is going to be a major challenge. most teams don't give up such players intentionally.
The hope is that Demidov will become that play-driving option in the top-6, even if it is from the wing.Perhaps such a winger can help turn Dach's game around or provide the opportunity for another C prospect (like Hage?) to reach their full potential?

I believe that Demidov won't be another winger that needs to play with Suzuki in order to progress or come closer to is ceiling as a player.

Hopefully, the 2025 draft, without yielding the 1st OApick, necessarily, brings one or more play driver to the fold.

It could be playmaking Misa at C for the top-6, or such a 3rd line pivot in Desnoyers, or a speedy power forward with skill like Carbonneau?

IMO, in three more years after this one, there will be enough young, progressing, NHL-ready talent to transform the fortunes of this team.

Suzuki and Caufield have already proven themselves,IMO, and will continue to progress.

Slafkovsky is only 20 and already has a 20-goal, 50-point season under his belt. He's slightly under the same pace for points as last year, but ahead of his point production prior to the New Year last season. As for the goals, Slafkovsky has started to use his body more and to increase his shooting of late. He must keep doing this to be a larger threat out on the ice. Keep in mind that it is harder for a 20-year old than it is for an older Suzuki to keep producing and progressing with so little offensive depth in the lineup.

The addition of Demidov and a gradual return to form of Patrick Laine will go along ways to providing Montreal with an actual top-6 in the short-term. Montreal will still need another C to step up in a 2nd line role for the offense to actually take off, though, whether that is sooner, rather than later, with a more confident Dach that has recovered both physically and mentally from his knee injury, or within the three years mentioned, either from Kapanen taking a large step forward, from Owen Beck seizing an opportunity to play higher up in the lineup, from Hage progressing steadily and living up to projections as a top-6 pivot, or as the result of great fortune at the upcoming draft that fills the hole at Center immediately (Hagens/Misa)!?

Someone from Beck, Hage, Dach, or Kapanen can surely fill 3rd line Center duties more than admirably and Evans can be re-signed as a veteran depth presence down the middle. And that doesn't take into account the possibility of acquiring another higher end 3rd line pivot like Desnoyers with the CAL first rounder.

As for depth players, all those mid-6 players missing out on a rollin the top-6 will undoubtedly provide quality depth on the bottom-6 and provide injury insurance higher up in the lineup.

The Habs' D-corps, with more experience, and some injury luck, should round out nicely as a D that can transition well to offense and shut down opponents, but, surely, some other key element will need to come from outside the organization (most likely via the UFA market) to solidify it:

Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - UFA
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Engstrom, Struble
 

dcyhabs

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The hope is that Demidov will become that play-driving option in the top-6, even if it is from the wing.Perhaps such a winger can help turn Dach's game around or provide the opportunity for another C prospect (like Hage?) to reach their full potential?

I believe that Demidov won't be another winger that needs to play with Suzuki in order to progress or come closer to is ceiling as a player.

Hopefully, the 2025 draft, without yielding the 1st OApick, necessarily, brings one or more play driver to the fold.

It could be playmaking Misa at C for the top-6, or such a 3rd line pivot in Desnoyers, or a speedy power forward with skill like Carbonneau?

IMO, in three more years after this one, there will be enough young, progressing, NHL-ready talent to transform the fortunes of this team.

Suzuki and Caufield have already proven themselves,IMO, and will continue to progress.

Slafkovsky is only 20 and already has a 20-goal, 50-point season under his belt. He's slightly under the same pace for points as last year, but ahead of his point production prior to the New Year last season. As for the goals, Slafkovsky has started to use his body more and to increase his shooting of late. He must keep doing this to be a larger threat out on the ice. Keep in mind that it is harder for a 20-year old than it is for an older Suzuki to keep producing and progressing with so little offensive depth in the lineup.

The addition of Demidov and a gradual return to form of Patrick Laine will go along ways to providing Montreal with an actual top-6 in the short-term. Montreal will still need another C to step up in a 2nd line role for the offense to actually take off, though, whether that is sooner, rather than later, with a more confident Dach that has recovered both physically and mentally from his knee injury, or within the three years mentioned, either from Kapanen taking a large step forward, from Owen Beck seizing an opportunity to play higher up in the lineup, from Hage progressing steadily and living up to projections as a top-6 pivot, or as the result of great fortune at the upcoming draft that fills the hole at Center immediately (Hagens/Misa)!?

Someone from Beck, Hage, Dach, or Kapanen can surely fill 3rd line Center duties more than admirably and Evans can be re-signed as a veteran depth presence down the middle. And that doesn't take into account the possibility of acquiring another higher end 3rd line pivot like Desnoyers with the CAL first rounder.

As for depth players, all those mid-6 players missing out on a rollin the top-6 will undoubtedly provide quality depth on the bottom-6 and provide injury insurance higher up in the lineup.

The Habs' D-corps, with more experience, and some injury luck, should round out nicely as a D that can transition well to offense and shut down opponents, but, surely, some other key element will need to come from outside the organization (most likely via the UFA market) to solidify it:

Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - UFA
Xhekaj - Mailloux
Engstrom, Struble
If everything goes well the top 6 is set. The habs will probably need to sign or trade for some physical defensive bottom six guys. I agree Demidov will drive play.

Loads of D, but they really need a top guy or two. Could be Reinbacher, but to be good they’ll need someone better unless he really develops. They may need some big hitters on D, too. They habs really aren’t built for playoff series.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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7-5–1 since the six game skid. Team’s playing a lot better. Laine coming on has also helped. Easier part of the schedule and we’re beating these weaker clubs.

This is more in line with where I thought we’d be. .500 club with better offense. Better rack up a couple more wins this month because things get harder at the end of December.
 

HabbyGuy

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7-5–1 since the six game skid. Team’s playing a lot better. Laine coming on has also helped. Easier part of the schedule and we’re beating these weaker clubs.

This is more in line with where I thought we’d be. .500 club with better offense. Better rack up a couple more wins this month because things get harder at the end of December.

As long as in the tougher schedule the losses are more like the Rangers game, I'd be fine with it. That was a game we shouldn't have lost at all. Don't care about the W's and L's, it's how the W's and L's are obtained that matters.

W's are obviously preferred as it's just a better environment all round for making it more fertile for growth and such.
 
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Paddyjack

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I think the you are misinterpreting (deliberately or not) the situation.

For starters, I think that all fans want to see more from the Habs. Only, more realistic fans not only claimed that they were ready for the team's first actual full-on rebuild... EVER, but also realize that this takes more than three years to be done right -- And, even then, there won't be any guarantees that it ever leads to another Cup!

Fans getting informed that they are unrealistic about the timeline of the rebuild is not informing them that they are bad fans, or claiming that they shouldn't want to see more from their team.
Thank you for informing me that I'm unrealistic.

I still don't trust MSL to lead this team to greatness, it's still a shitshow in our zone although I admit it's not as bad as it was. And I don't like how the forwards are playing. Everybody is like "woah Laine" without realizing the guy has basically been not playing for almost a year and he is awesome right away... what does that tell you about the rest of our forwards?

A few wins against bad teams doesn't make this team on the right path.

But I guess I'm a bad fan after all.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Thank you for informing me that I'm unrealistic.

I still don't trust MSL to lead this team to greatness, it's still a shitshow in our zone although I admit it's not as bad as it was. And I don't like how the forwards are playing. Everybody is like "woah Laine" without realizing the guy has basically been not playing for almost a year and he is awesome right away... what does that tell you about the rest of our forwards?
Okay, if the forwards are shit, is it really a coaching issue then?

And the team was already playing better before Laine joined.
A few wins against bad teams doesn't make this team on the right path.
It’s more in line with what we expected from this club. And we beat some decent teams along the way too. Provably should’ve beaten the Rangers, might’ve beaten Boston with Montie…
 
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HabbyGuy

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Thank you for informing me that I'm unrealistic.

I still don't trust MSL to lead this team to greatness, it's still a shitshow in our zone although I admit it's not as bad as it was. And I don't like how the forwards are playing. Everybody is like "woah Laine" without realizing the guy has basically been not playing for almost a year and he is awesome right away... what does that tell you about the rest of our forwards?

A few wins against bad teams doesn't make this team on the right path.

But I guess I'm a bad fan after all.

How about we put greatness on the back burner for now, and just worry about growth and consistency for the leagues 2nd youngest team in it's 3rd year of a rebuild.

I believe Marty has that in him, despite the holes in the lineup. We'll cross that other bridge when we get to it.
 
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Paddyjack

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Okay, if the forwards are shit, is it really a coaching issue then?

And the team was already playing better before Laine joined.

It’s more in line with what we expected from this club. And we beat some decent teams along the way too. Provably should’ve beaten the Rangers, might’ve beaten Boston with Montie…


Can’t say the team hadn’t improved.
Of course it could be! These kids are learning to play hockey, if you don't teach them correctly how do you expect them to get good? That is why I'm so concerned about coaching. Don't you find surprising that the vets like Gally Armia Evans etc looks better this year....? It could simply be because the kids around them regressed which makes them look more effective. Vets already know how to play hockey, so for them it's not big issues. But all these kids? Rebuild can fail if they are not taught correctly, I'm sure of it.

How about we put greatness on the back burner for now, and just worry about growth and consistency for the leagues 2nd youngest team in it's 3rd year of a rebuild.

I believe Marty has that in him despite the holes in the lineup, we'll cross that other bridge when we get to it.
If you want greatness down the road, better teach how to reach it right now.

Anyway, that is why I dropped this thread, I see that I'm on an island here and I just don't want to argue to much about it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Of course it could be! These kids are learning to play hockey, if you don't teach them correctly how do you expect them to get good? That is why I'm so concerned about coaching.
Okay. But the team has improved a lot over the season.

Nobody expected Dach to shit the bed like this. I think that caught everyone off guard. But they’ve adjusted and improved. Isn’t that a sign of good coaching?
Don't you find surprising that the vets like Gally Armia Evans etc looks better this year....? It could simply be because the kids around them regressed which makes them look more effective. Vets already know how to play hockey, so for them it's not big issues. But all these kids?
One has nothing to do with the other.
Rebuild can fail if they are not taught correctly, I'm sure of it.
Of course. Look no further than Therrien. But coming into this season almost all our prospects had improved. We got off to a horrible start and things looked bleak. Since that disastrous six game streak we’ve been far more in line with expectations.
If you want greatness down the road, better teach how to reach it right now.

Anyway, that is why I dropped this thread, I see that I'm on an island here and I just don't want to argue to much about it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
All I can say is that with a team like this we’ll be consistently inconsistent. The schedule gets harder in a couple of weeks and I expect we’ll be below .500 for that stretch. It’s going to be an up and down year. But the team at least has improved its play. I don’t see why MSL shouldn’t get some credit for that.
 
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HabbyGuy

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If you want greatness down the road, better teach how to reach it right now.

I think just learning how to win and consistently compete is probably the 1st step to that goal.

This team is extremely young, with 3 and a half babies on D, and no legit 2C (as of yet), there's no teaching manual to get us there quicker, can't make a baby run before it's consistently stable enough to walk.

It's a process.
 

dcyhabs

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A few wins and the thread dies down.

The main issue I see is that as soon as they go down a goal they lose it. They finally one a game when the opposition scored first, but it's clear they don't play the same way when they are behind.

The positive side is that at least the coaching is different from Therrien. Therrien would coach a really simple system, everyone would follow it, they'd win games early in the season, and then teams that played a more complicated system would master that system and beat the habs consistently. With a bit of luck the current system is more complex but more competitive.

I guess Laine's return improves the coaching, too.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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A few wins and the thread dies down.

The main issue I see is that as soon as they go down a goal they lose it. They finally one a game when the opposition scored first, but it's clear they don't play the same way when they are behind.

The positive side is that at least the coaching is different from Therrien. Therrien would coach a really simple system, everyone would follow it, they'd win games early in the season, and then teams that played a more complicated system would master that system and beat the habs consistently. With a bit of luck the current system is more complex but more competitive.

I guess Laine's return improves the coaching, too.
This thread will heat up soon enough. The Florida’s road trip kicks off a tough stretch in the schedule.
 

Jack Spider

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After almost 2 years off, Laine can carry the puck up the ice and deke players. Scores on the PP. Where does Slaf fit in this as a 1st overall pick?

Laine and Hutson are on the top tier, when will Slaff reach that? Will he?
 

Heffyhoof

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After almost 2 years off, Laine can carry the puck up the ice and deke players. Scores on the PP. Where does Slaf fit in this as a 1st overall pick?

Laine and Hutson are on the top tier, when will Slaff reach that? Will he?
You might be right about your concerns about Slaf, but why didn't you mention Dach? Dach is his single most frequent linemate and Slaf's stats are putrid with him but are good without him.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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After almost 2 years off, Laine can carry the puck up the ice and deke players. Scores on the PP. Where does Slaf fit in this as a 1st overall pick?

Laine and Hutson are on the top tier, when will Slaff reach that? Will he?
A lot of players break out around 22, 23 years old. Slaf's already shown what he can do. Not a great year but not a terrible one either. I think he should be put on the 1st line with CC and Nick.

He got off to a good start and then had an injury. Don't know if that's still plaguing him but Dach hasn't done him any favours.
 
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HuGort

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I'd try a coaching change. A lot of skilled players have regressed under Marty. Not just Dach, but Slaf has had a talking too. Barron has fallen off the chart as have Newhook. These guys were high picks in draft.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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I'd try a coaching change. A lot of skilled players have regressed under Marty. Not just Dach, but Slaf has had a talking too. Barron has fallen off the chart as have Newhook. These guys were high picks in draft.
Newhook falling off has a lot to do with Dach playing poorly. He's looked great with CC and Nick. The points haven't followed but he's played well.

I don't think it's so much that Barron has fallen/regressed as much as it is that he hasn't moved forward. In my opinion they should bite the bullet and play him every game. That's not happening now and it's not helping. I get it. MSL wants to win games and Barron won't necessarily help as he is. But if you don't play him he won't improve.
 
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Paddyjack

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A lot of players break out around 22, 23 years old. Slaf's already shown what he can do. Not a great year but not a terrible one either. I think he should be put on the 1st line with CC and Nick.

He got off to a good start and then had an injury. Don't know if that's still plaguing him but Dach hasn't done him any favours.
I agree 100% with you on this. I've seen a few shifts where Slaf was on the ice with Suzuki and Caufield because of late line change and he really clicked with them again. It's like he knows exactly what he has to do on that line. Newhook with Laine and Dach could be interesting.
 

Paddyjack

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After almost 2 years off, Laine can carry the puck up the ice and deke players. Scores on the PP. Where does Slaf fit in this as a 1st overall pick?

Laine and Hutson are on the top tier, when will Slaff reach that? Will he?
It's not his game. If Slaf becomes good, it will be as a powerhouse on the line, think Armia's board skills but with offensive talent. He is not a deking guy.
 

salbutera

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I'd try a coaching change. A lot of skilled players have regressed under Marty. Not just Dach, but Slaf has had a talking too. Barron has fallen off the chart as have Newhook. These guys were high picks in draft.
U mean like Slaf’s “regression” from Dec - end of last season? I take it you knew at the time of the Dach trade he would succumb to a major knee injury?

Barron was a dipshit in Col and remains a dipshit … I said it at the time of the trade HuGo dealt a heart & soul player for a player having nowhere close to same elite hunger trait

Oh yeah Habs have the 13 best record in the NHL since Nov 11…. hopefully Remembrance Day will jar some grey matter amongst the fanbase as the season moves fwd

1734014183261.gif
 
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