Coaching is a serious problem.

[morhilane]

That he finally realizes we are too passive is good.
Things will not get better until he acknowledges the fact that his team is not able to pre-cognize the type of system he wants to play.
Let's count up the players with a good sense of anticipation shall we...
Getting more aggressive at this point may actually cause the breakdowns to happen quicker it's a slippery slope.
This is all stuff we've discussed as long as two years ago.

I think he realized it two years ago, it's not the first time he mention them being too passive defensively.

The point is more that the players aren't executing what the coach's wants. MSL defensive system is not "standing on the ice puck watching while turtling around the net". But whatever he wants his players to do, after 3 seasons of it not working, it might be time to move to something else they might be able to execute.

 

[OldCraig71]

Marty needs some help because things are looking messy.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think he realized it two years ago, it's not the first time he mention them being too passive defensively.

The point is more that the players aren't executing what the coach's wants. MSL defensive system is not "standing on the ice puck watching while turtling around the net". But whatever he wants his players to do, after 3 seasons of it not working, it might be time to move to something else they might be able to execute.

Based on everything I've heard and read, they believe the style of defense they want to play will be the most effective way to win, when it can be executed and they'd rather keep taking their lumps with it until it clicks, than dumb everything down and do something else only to build them back up to the system again later.

 

[Rapala]

I think he realized it two years ago, it's not the first time he mention them being too passive defensively.

The point is more that the players aren't executing what the coach's wants. MSL defensive system is not "standing on the ice puck watching while turtling around the net". But whatever he wants his players to do, after 3 seasons of it not working, it might be time to move to something else they might be able to execute.

Pre-cognize was the the main thrust of my argument and in the discussions of the past not the passiveness.
The latter is a by product of our ineptitude with the former.

There was always going to be a point in time where our style of play was going to get questioned seriously.
We are there now. The one point that was continually being made in the past is we don't have the horses for this.

Grillo will help with reaction but he sure as shit can't help with anticipation which is all "Hockey Sense"
That being said we are back to either simplifying the system or lowering our expectations.
I can't remember the last time we had such a balloon of optimism get popped so quickly.
Maybe when Bergevin's season following our ECF appearance became a transition year because he did jack shit in the off season.

I'm simply looking for better structure better GF/GA and definite improvements in our over all team game.
Luckily we have 75 more games to make it happen but I do think changes will have to be made to make it happen.

 

[Rapala]

Based on everything I've heard and read, they believe the style of defense they want to play will be the most effective way to win, when it can be executed and they'd rather keep taking their lumps with it until it clicks, than dumb everything down and do something else only to build them back up to the system again later.

This is the one thing that will likely irritate the fan base more than anything else if we continue to look so lost in our D zone.
Much of it because of the expectations/optimism our front office gave the fan base coming out of last season.
They've always been up front with what they hope to achieve when discussing "Our Hockey" but maybe they should have been wiser.

I think we can see what their plan was but realistically they hoped to jump two steps before ensuring they could take one.
The constant injuries are only making it seem like it will be another long trudge to something below mediocrity.
The funny thing is mediocrity in this league is being in the mix. Maybe they should have used that term.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

all these guys have played systems almost all their careers, so if MSL and Staff think their system, whatever it is as no one can explain it because no players seems to be able to execute it going into yr 3, then its either the system itself is the problem or the ones teaching it

All the players collectively dumb now, they all succeeded in winning systems and coaches in the past but our peewee geniuses have come up with the 3D matrix level scheme that will lead them to wins if executed properly and they just havent in 2 yrs. Sounds right

 

[ryan callahan]

Man people in this thread gaslighting themselves thinking the coach is that important. With this level of defensive commitment and effort from our so-called "leaders" (Suzuki, Savard, Anderson, etc.), no defensive system or coach could do anything with this embarrassing group. I don't even like MSL that much and idk if he is the coach for the future of this team, but the last 4 games are 100% on the players

 

[HabsAddict]

If you want to see the unvarnished truth of how we get scored on, go to the NHL site and look at the goal scoring SIMULATION.

I do that now on every goal to see what is happening. You can derive everything you need from that.

I also have better equipment to see what is happening. An 83" tv OLED with zero motion blur, 4K and half speed slo-mo. Basically i have better equipment to better see....us lose...and curse in 4 languages.

But do check out the NHL site. Info overload freely available.

 

[zzoo]

It's not just that we have lost some games; we have been dominated badly. In 7 games so far, we played only 1 good game, against Sens. That's it.

 

[WeThreeKings]

This is the one thing that will likely irritate the fan base more than anything else if we continue to look so lost in our D zone.
Much of it because of the expectations/optimism our front office gave the fan base coming out of last season.
They've always been up front with what they hope to achieve when discussing "Our Hockey" but maybe they should have been wiser.

I think we can see what their plan was but realistically they hoped to jump two steps before ensuring they could take one.
The constant injuries are only making it seem like it will be another long trudge to something below mediocrity.
The funny thing is mediocrity in this league is being in the mix. Maybe they should have used that term.

I don't think they gave us much hope or optimism. They said in the mix which meant playing meaningful games later in the season. Fans jumped to be in the mix for an actual playoff spot.

 

[HabzSauce]

Bring back Michel and let the boys smoke on the bench

 

[Tyson]

I don't think they gave us much hope or optimism. They said in the mix which meant playing meaningful games later in the season. Fans jumped to be in the mix for an actual playoff spot.

Anyone who follows this team knows they are nowhere near being a playoff team. What we want is progress, maturity win or lose.

 

[Rapala]

I don't think they gave us much hope or optimism. They said in the mix which meant playing meaningful games later in the season. Fans jumped to be in the mix for an actual playoff spot.

In the mix for me means exactly what you say.
I don't see this team playing meaningful games anywhere near TDL at this point.
For me having to make very tough decisions at TDL about which side of the fence to be on being is in the mix.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I the mix for me means exactly what you say.
I don't see this team playing meaningful games anywhere near TDL at this point.
For me having to make a very tough decisions at TDL on which side of the fence to be on is in the mix.

And that's what they meant.

Look i know people are frustrated with their play, me too. But it doesn't change what we saw last year and we know they haven't reached individual standards from last year.

They have to figure out a way to get out of this lull and that's part of maturity of a young group.

 

[Tyson]

One thing Marty needs to do is start holding vets more accountable. Dvorak, Anderson, Dach, Armia need to bring more.

 

[HabsAddict]

The getting trapped in our zone, for MINUTES, and generally chaos in our end, that’s all coaching. I am aware and support the fact that we are maybe just over a third of the way through our rebuild, but we shouldn’t be getting throttled like that in our zone night after night.

That is 100% on Marty and his tight zone defense.

It's so bad and so ill thought out that when a defenseman gets the puck the ONLY choice he has is to dump it down the ice. Forwards? They are next to him so passing to them is not an option. Why risk a 10 ft pass when keeping possession is smarter.

Why are the forwatds ten feet from him? Martys system of zone defense.

It basically requires our entire defense to be elite skating defenseman to carry it out.

It is NOT the players.

Way back we had a similar situation when MThead was coaching. (Michel Therrien) His system was an equally tight zone defense and exits was...shoot it off the glass. It became a joke in another forum i post.

At least MThead had Jesus Price in nets to save him. We absolutely do not have that level of goaltending so we become a shooting galary for the opposition.

 

[Rapala]

And that's what they meant.

Look i know people are frustrated with their play, me too. But it doesn't change what we saw last year and we know they haven't reached individual standards from last year.

They have to figure out a way to get out of this lull and that's part of maturity of a young group.

Oh I agree they have to find a way to put the pieces together properly and if that means dumping then dump.
I'm sure we have better options in Laval for certain roles and I'm not the only one.
They can fire Dvorak off to the moon anytime now as far as I'm concerned and him being a lefty is moot at this point.
Like Max Lapierre said he isn't winning his draws anyways. He said he'd take an eighth rounder for him.

 

[MadMslm]

Defensive structure of the team has been a problem for a while. It’s discussed every game in the GDT for the last two seasons.

There’s clearly things that can be tweaked or changed to have a semblance of defense who won’t be stuck in their own zone for 2-3 minutes multiple times a night.

Either drop the man to man, or make a hybrid of it, but this has to be fixed.

I won’t shit on Marty, I liked the player and I like the guy, and anyone who would come in and replace him would lose games too but he needs to step in and find a solution.

 

[Egresch]

Marty as a coach is at the similar point as Kirby Dach/Justin Barron as players. You know about pedigree, skills and you can see improvement and some flashes. But then you also see really bad games, stupid mistakes or lack of progress in few areas. Just like Dach cannot learn faceoffs, MSL cannot learn defensive coverage, vet accountability...
And these things did not change much over 2 seasons.

 

[Durvann]

Habs are like when you go into a dungeon raid full of people with good intentions but with a bad raid composition, most players undergeared and not using consumables, using sub-optimal talent specs and bad knowledge of the fight mechanics. You can succeed if few key members carry the dps, you get lucky or if only knowledgeable players are targeted by complex mechanics but generally it's a shitshow.

Raid leader is too loose and doing the wrong strats and should start kicking people out in my opinion.

 

[1909]

Instead of asking the players to bring their game into his game, he should do the opposite. It could not be worse.

 

[HabsAddict]

I'm a beer leaguer projecting into Martys system....

I get the puck and got to get rid of it within a second. Where? My forwards are 10-15 feet from me. Nobody on the boards. What are my one second options? Off the glass like the old Therrien system or straght down the ice?

Whose fault is it that i have no options? Or shoot it out and lose possession? Who gets the blame if my clearing attempt gets intercepted? Is it my talent level (extra beers aside)?

The dumbest but least desirable move is to have my goalie freeze the puck. But that carries a risk that the goalie is ready to do that and that there aren't a few opposing wolves ready to pounce at the puck.

All that decision making with zero good options...in less then a second.

No good options are no good options regardless if it's a beer leaguer or Bobby Orr.

But to us fans, it looks like we have a dummy on defense, were in fact, it's the coaches "system".

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Instead of asking the players to bring their game into his game, he should do the opposite. It could not be worse.

A good coach adapts

If Marty needs the perfect players to fit his ‘“concepts,” then he is the wrong guy completely

 

[Tyson]

A good coach adapts

If Marty needs the perfect players to fit his ‘“concepts,” then he is the wrong guy completely

 

[Garbageyuk]

Marty has the team playing the modern game for the first time ever. It's just not a very good team.

This. We have one good line, and exactly one defenseman who is decent at actual defense. Add a journeyman starting goaltender, and this is the result. I highly doubt any coach in the league could get much more out of this roster.