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Coaching Discussion: Jon Cooper - Part 2

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AlwaysSunnyInTampa said:
Just you dude because you seem to have to find a problem with anything anyone says regardless of the context. In this case it was reassuring another poster of our history vs the Caps in specific. You're the one dragging the CBJ into it because you seem to think a specific incident applies to everyone
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Oh yes because 2003 and 2011 is relevant now.
 
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Had enough of Cooper and his antics now. This was the last straw. How dare you scratch Rutta for an injury prone 34 year old with nearly 1000 games played. Jan is just starting to hit his straps at 29 and 110 ish games played.

McDonagh needs a spell on the bench. Forgot how to play imo.
 
TheFurryPickle said:
Had enough of Cooper and his antics now. This was the last straw. How dare you scratch Rutta for an injury prone 34 year old with nearly 1000 games played. Jan is just starting to hit his straps at 29 and 110 ish games played.

McDonagh needs a spell on the bench. Forgot how to play imo.
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Is this like a very bad Hose wannabe?
 
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Who cares these are all bottom of the depth chart scrubs they aren't making or breaking our results.
 
Byrddog said:
Joseph needs to be sent down for good he brings NOTHING to this team.
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Who's replacing him?

We're fine with Joseph and Verhaeghe swapping in and out. Nobody in Syracuse looks ready. Story changes if we acquire a forward at the TDL, but for right now, it's better to try to get Joseph his confidence back. Maybe send him down for a few games here and there, but, in general, it's not like he's blocking anybody else.
 
Jon Cooper and his coaching staff are the worst in the league at managing a game period. He just will not roll 4 lines and play's that plug maroon way to many minutes how many teams has he played for in 4 years. Just look at the minutes played buy all the players and it will tell the story of Jon Cooper. He is a guy who kept punching a cement wall over and over and couldn't figure out why his hand broke. look at the results tonight they should of blown Detroit out but didn't.
 
DFC said:
Who's replacing him?

We're fine with Joseph and Verhaeghe swapping in and out. Nobody in Syracuse looks ready. Story changes if we acquire a forward at the TDL, but for right now, it's better to try to get Joseph his confidence back. Maybe send him down for a few games here and there, but, in general, it's not like he's blocking anybody else.
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I am fine with both staying in Syracuse split that 10 minutes of ice time to other guys. Hell split it Maroon and Stephens unless Stephens completely falls apart. Having Joseph or Verhaeghe on that third line only makes it impotent. I am just over seeing the guy fly around losing the puck getting knocked on his ass while along the boards. He is not talented enough to play top 6 where his game would be useful and useless on the 3rd line making Johnny and Yanni ineffective. This allows the opposing team to use there shutdown lines on the point and Stamkos lines. The third has to be just a little dangerous to open the rest of the lines. Otherwise Yanni needs to go back with Ceddy and Maroon that line was producing.
 
Hockeyman1962 said:
Jon Cooper and his coaching staff are the worst in the league at managing a game period. He just will not roll 4 lines and play's that plug maroon way to many minutes how many teams has he played for in 4 years. Just look at the minutes played buy all the players and it will tell the story of Jon Cooper. He is a guy who kept punching a cement wall over and over and couldn't figure out why his hand broke. look at the results tonight they should of blown Detroit out but didn't.
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I'm as much on the "fire Cooper" train as anybody, but tonight was a lot more about Bernier stonewalling us than Cooper's strategy not working. We dominated the game in all three zones.

Coop's issues are more about the playoffs, when teams have been able to shut us down. But that doesn't look anything like tonight looked. What I think can be pinned on Cooper is when the team can't create chances, and that happens mainly in the playoffs. We created plenty tonight, and, if I'm not mistaken, we're still the highest scoring team in the league.
 
Byrddog said:
I am fine with both staying in Syracuse split that 10 minutes of ice time to other guys. Hell split it Maroon and Stephens unless Stephens completely falls apart. Having Joseph or Verhaeghe on that third line only makes it impotent. I am just over seeing the guy fly around losing the puck getting knocked on his ass while along the boards. He is not talented enough to play top 6 where his game would be useful and useless on the 3rd line making Johnny and Yanni ineffective. This allows the opposing team to use there shutdown lines on the point and Stamkos lines. The third has to be just a little dangerous to open the rest of the lines. Otherwise Yanni needs to go back with Ceddy and Maroon that line was producing.
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And roll 11 forwards night after night? Why?

Our third line really isn't a problem. None of our lines are much of a problem right now. We're the highest scoring team in the league (well, last time I checked--might have changed a bit by now), and that's despite our top-3 scorers last year all pacing for fewer points.

The idea that teams would focus shutdown lines on anybody but Kucherov or Stamkos just doesn't check out. Third lines don't open up coverage for top-six lines.

Verhaeghe in particular shouldn't go down, because he's not waiver exempt. With Joseph, it's not really about us--he's not hurting the team. It's more about whatever's best to get him rolling and get his development back on track. I don't doubt he'll yo-yo between leagues a bit.
 
DFC said:
And roll 11 forwards night after night? Why?

Our third line really isn't a problem. None of our lines are much of a problem right now. We're the highest scoring team in the league (well, last time I checked--might have changed a bit by now), and that's despite our top-3 scorers last year all pacing for fewer points.

The idea that teams would focus shutdown lines on anybody but Kucherov or Stamkos just doesn't check out. Third lines don't open up coverage for top-six lines.

Verhaeghe in particular shouldn't go down, because he's not waiver exempt. With Joseph, it's not really about us--he's not hurting the team. It's more about whatever's best to get him rolling and get his development back on track. I don't doubt he'll yo-yo between leagues a bit.
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Believe it or not teams can and do focus there defensive lines against the other teams top lines. We see it all the time and is the primary reason Kuch and Stammer are on separate lines. Its called spreading the offense thru the lines. It is a reason Coop trys to roll four lines and he is not the only coach to do this. Even while the top lines are not scoring like last year they are still doing ok but ok is not good enough for HF Fans. The third line has to be a threat to score and right now they just are not. Yanni and Johnson have both proven they can Joseph has been the boat anchor. In fact Yanni moving from a functioning 4th line that was playing really well early in the season has now killed two lines. Yes its Coop's decision to try and balance lines that's his job.

Now why has Verhaeghe not performed at the NHL level. a guy that has cooked long enough in the AHL is 24 years old yet has not transitioned his game from 82 points in the AHL to essentially nothing at the NHL level. He may be one of those who must be in the top 6 to excel which puts this team in a pickle. The best thing now would be to move him for his career and to help this team at his age he will be on the decline until a top 6 spot opens here. As for Joseph last year he was the new toy 13-13-26 with his speed he should be better than even that on the 3rd line. I am not expecting 20 goals or 40 points for him either I expect he could be at least as good as Killer was on the 3rd line putting up mid teens goals and 30+ points. Killers 2nd year he hit 40 points on that 3rd line and this was not a very good team then. Yet he has been the whipping boy here.

Both Joseph and Verhaeghe are adding little to nothing to this team and have added to the early struggles throw in VAsi's struggle and the bonehead shit Shattenkirk's game is and that's the difference in last season and this years campaign. We miss what Strallman brought he was reliable to play defense rather than a forward having to drop into coverage nearly every shift to cover for Shattenkirk. I am not against putting the D up into the play but damn Shattenkirk thinks he is a forward always has since his day in St Louis that is how he has played. And his career numbers do not support the way he plays, as much time as he spends on the attack you would think he would average 15 goals and 50 points a year yet in 12 years he has broken 40 points just 4 times now yes he has only completed 3 seasons with more than 70 games and two of those years were 40 point years. I am really surprised he has not been on the IR yet but think it is a matter of time the question then will be who slides in his spot Rutta has played well and may get a shot or will they bring in Foote who is now ready for his chance?

Now with all that negativity I still think this 7 game stretch that started with the Panthers game will put the team back in playoff contention. They are not going to win the presidents cup but after last year im not sure that's a good thing anyway. They need to be hitting stride in late Feb and make a run it is doable for sure.
 
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im for keeping cooper IMHO during the break jbb did his job talked to vets is the messes getting through and I think they replied YES and it showed after the dogshow 10 minutes vs the habs... honestly he saw what i saw he had it ADJUSTED which we say he cant to do supposably.... anyway detroit? that was some serious bad puck luck and a goalie saving another 3 maybe 4 he had no RIGHT saving lol... coulda been like 10-1 it was that dominating and shots that should went with people all over the net etc...

those things happen.... we gonna have to keep working honestly is all..... i think cooper is now 100% safe and I think by end of next 20 available points we are going to be in like second then we basically need to play 500 hockey on out to keep playoff spot.... confidence is low as hell in certain guys right now unfortunately we have a 100% pissed off kucherov who plays his worst when he gets on this type of thing...

cooper seems to be getting it... hes made his mistakes but some of bigger ones like washington pulling goalie showed the desperation he feels this team needs against a team like washington unfortunately...

we are actually in a good place i expect this stretch to change everything myself
 
DistantThunderRep said:
https://www.tsn.ca/tampa-bay-lightn...-security-shouldn-t-come-up-1.1420003?tsn-amp
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iu
 
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