Value of: Claude Giroux to Calgary

[FlyguyOX]

Giroux is a better player than all of those guys (minus Malkin), unless you meant Peter Forsberg. Teams may potentially pay a little more for Letang as a D-Man, but at-best it's a wash IMO.

At this stage of their careers Giroux is better than all those players that were listed

 

[captainpaxil]

Your bias is showing

For a team looking to go deep in the playoffs giroux returns more than gudreau. In a purely highest bidder situation g would get a blue chipper a first And a b prospect the four mil would be a quality player as well. I think you are greatly underestimating the flyers captain

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

For a team looking to go deep in the playoffs giroux returns more than gudreau. In a purely highest bidder situation g would get a blue chipper a first And a b prospect the four mil would be a quality player as well. I think you are greatly underestimating the flyers captain

LMAO sure man, name 1 example where this has ever been paid for a rental

 

[Sparky93]

For a team looking to go deep in the playoffs giroux returns more than gudreau. In a purely highest bidder situation g would get a blue chipper a first And a b prospect the four mil would be a quality player as well. I think you are greatly underestimating the flyers captain

I don't entirely disagree, right up to the retention part. Giroux has a full NMC, assuming he will only waive to his favorite contender, the retention then becomes a necessity to obtain the 1st + B prospect, either that or the Flyers would have to take on a bad contract. I can't imagine Philly having interest in a bad contract. Like I said previously, I don't think Calgary will be Giroux's destination of choice but the retention doesn't really hold much value, in this situation and he definitely won't return a bluechip + a 1st.

 

[Double Dion]

I really feel like you don't know what a 1 timer is. It's when you receive a pass and shoot/pass the puck with only 1 touch. A large number of Monahan's career goals have been 1 touch snap shots from the slot or in tight. 1 timers are not just bombs from the top of the circle. Maybe you and I just have different definitions of a 1 timer and in which case this is pointless to argue.

I'm not arguing the goal results from this season so far so I don't really get why you keep bringing them up. I'm fully aware who has been scored goals. I am arguing the fact that the team has a number of guys shooting well below their career averages. I am saying that QoT could be a major factor to this. Lack of playmaking can lead to very poor HD chances. For example look at Brady Tkachuk, for multiple years now he has been top 10 in SoG. However his actual goals count has never looked good. This is due to QoT, Tkachuk has been the sole offensive driving force in Ottawa for some time but hasn't had the teammates to help.

Are these numbers for Giroux below average compared to the league or below average to what his total numbers are? Can you show the numbers too. Otherwise I'm going to stick to the numbers I have (from EW) that say he is perfectly fine defensively even away from Couts.

Gaudreau also doesn't do either of those 2 things well yet he has thrived under Sutter's system. I think you are simplifying the system way too much and just assuming it won't work well with Giroux. Pavelski could very well be a better fit but he is also probably less likely to waive to a Canadian team (not that either would anyways). Personally I want Calgary to pursue Toffoli at the TDL over both of them as he cost less, has term, and is proven to thrive under Sutter

You're so condescending. Honestly, do you think anyone from Canada who posts here doesn't know what a one timer is? It's pointless to post with you.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You're so condescending. Honestly, do you think anyone from Canada who posts here doesn't know what a one timer is? It's pointless to post with you.

And you conveniently ignored the rest of the post.

Also that wasn't meant to be condescending, I genuinely am not sure how else you could think Monahan doesn't score off 1 timers all the time besides having a different definition of a 1 timer.

 

[TheWolfOfBroadStreet]

You're so condescending. Honestly, do you think anyone from Canada who posts here doesn't know what a one timer is? It's pointless to post with you.

honestly over the years I have learned canadians are equally as dumb as the rest of us when it comes to sports. My source is Toronto/Montreal trade threads over the years.

That said, you may want to read the rest of his post.

 

[Nanuuk]

Oi. To me a one timer has always been that a player has his stick off of the ice, slightly drawn back behind him and ready to slap/snap a shot off without stopping the puck first.

While I feel Monahan does this on occasion, my memory (and it gets worse with each passing year) is that Sean is more likely to receive the pass, then get off a snap shot. He has a lethal snap shot, but that has been hampered by those wrist surgeries in recent years.

And now back to the topic at hand. I think Giroux would be a great addition to this team. As I recall he got along famously with Gaudreau when Johnny was first named an all-star. For this reason, I wouldn't be surprised if he waived his NMC to come here.

The return offering would be higher if the Flames knew they could sign him to a reasonable medium term deal.

 

[Starat327]

Did I just read that Giroux is below average defensively? Lol.

Man, stereotypes die hard.

 

[FameFlame069]

I'd say Zary + 2nd + 2nd for G at 33% retained

Add 4th's from both teams for a 3rd team to retain like 1M?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I'd say Zary + 2nd + 2nd for G at 33% retained

Add 4th's from both teams for a 3rd team to retain like 1M?

Why would Calgary move their only decent center prospect for a winger rental? this years 1st probably makes more sense for both teams. Flames also don't have the cap for him without a dump going back and more retention

 

[Limeyjim]

Claude Giroux will never be traded. He will remain on the Flyers and retire in that uniform, he will be revered forever by the fans of the Flyers, his #28 will be retired by the Flyers organisation, and even if he never wins a Stanley Cup in his long career, he should be inducted into the NHL Hall of Fame.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Claude Giroux will never be traded. He will remain on the Flyers and retire in that uniform, he will be revered forever by the fans of the Flyers, his #28 will be retired by the Flyers organisation, and even if he never wins a Stanley Cup in his long career, he should be inducted into the NHL Hall of Fame.

Thank you for your contribution to the speculative discussion here. Reminds me of how Jarome Iginla was never traded. He remained on the Flames and retired in that uniform, he will be revered forever by the fans of the Flames, his #12 was retired by the Flames organization, and even if though never won a Stanley Cup in his long career, he got inducted into the NHL Hall of Fame.

 

[captainpaxil]

I like Giroux. I'd probably have him slightly higher than Taylor Hall. Hall returned a warm body and a 2nd round pick. I think Giroux returns a 1st, but you're asking for the 2nd leading scorer in the AHL at 20 years old, another top 10 AHL scorer and a 1st. That's comparable to the Eichel return for 3 months of Giroux.

Ahl stats are nice but the fact he's even there says he's more kaspari kapanen than Elias Peterson. Outside of goalies and the odd defenseman it's not really a thing for blue chip guys anymore.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Ahl stats are nice but the fact he's even there says he's more kaspari kapanen than Elias Peterson. Outside of goalies and the odd defenseman it's not really a thing for blue chip guys anymore.

Yes it is, just look at Seth Jarvis this year for example

 

[Flyer lurker]

LMAO sure man, name 1 example where this has ever been paid for a rental

Well since flyers fans remember the dumb trades of past flyer gms.
Adam Oates (rental) for
1
2
3
Maxine Ouellet who was an a- goalie prospect at the time and flopped.

Only takes one gm to be stupid.

 

[captainpaxil]

Yes it is, just look at Seth Jarvis this year for example

Jarvis s 19 playing in the ahl because of covid. The flyers have a kid Foerster doing the same thing. It's not a knock to be on a good development course but with the cap anymore guys who are in that top tier get moved into the good young player category. Brink and coronato are on the same track probably 3 year college guys and definitely A tier prospects but not immovable blue chip guys. That's actually the guy I said I wanted along with a first

 

[StoneHands]

Yes it is, just look at Seth Jarvis this year for example

Are you really comparing an 18 year old who was in his post draft year playing 9 games in the AHL after his WHL season ended to a 20 year old playing full time in the AHL three seasons after being drafted? You can't see the flaws in that comparison?

 

[Sparky93]

Jarvis s 19 playing in the ahl because of covid. The flyers have a kid Foerster doing the same thing. It's not a knock to be on a good development course but with the cap anymore guys who are in that top tier get moved into the good young player category. Brink and coronato are on the same track probably 3 year college guys and definitely A tier prospects but not immovable blue chip guys. That's actually the guy I said I wanted along with a first

Are you suggesting a guy thats only 30 games removed from being 13th OA and a 1st, in the 20-30 range for Giroux as a rental? That's whole lot. To be completely honest, there's only 2-3 players, with term on the Flyers, that I'd make that sort of offer for and Giroux isn't one of them. It makes no sense for a team to spend that sort of currency on any rental.

 

[StoneHands]

Are you suggesting a guy thats only 30 games removed from being 13th OA and a 1st, in the 20-30 range for Giroux as a rental? That's whole lot. To be completely honest, there's only 2-3 players, with term on the Flyers, that I'd make that sort of offer for and Giroux isn't one of them. It makes no sense for a team to spend that sort of currency on any rental.

I don't believe anyone is asking about Jarvis, he was brought up as an example of a high draft pick who played in the AHL. He was comparing him to Pelletier because he's currently in the AHL though it's not really a comparison since he was the 26th pick 3 years ago and he's just now in the AHL, not when he was 18. So it was really a discussion about the Flames 1st which would also be in the 20-30 range along with Pelletier who was a late 1st in 2019. That might be more than Giroux will fetch at the deadline but teams do get desperate when they think they think right now is their best opportunity to win a Cup which may be the case for Calgary considering they have a few important pieces due for a new contract next season.

 

[Appleyard]

One thing that is kind of being overlooked in all the Giroux trade threads...

he has been at C for the last 16 games. Without Couturier.

And in those 16 games:

6g, 10a, 16p
+7.88 CF Rel
+7.18 ExGF Rel

He does not look any different at C than wing.

I guess on a lot of teams he may well be a top 6 C and not a winger... heck... he might play at 1C over Lindholm for example.

 

[StoneHands]

One thing that is kind of being overlooked in all the Giroux trade threads...

he has been at C for the last 16 games. Without Couturier.

And in those 16 games:

6g, 10a, 16p
+7.88 CF Rel
+7.18 ExGF Rel

He does not look any different at C than wing.

I guess on a lot of teams he may well be a top 6 C and not a winger... heck... he might play at 1C over Lindholm for example.

He's looked good at center when he's played there this year but over the past few years he's looked much better on the wing than at center. I don't know if the numbers line up with what I see but he's looked much more dangerous on offense when he plays the wing.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Jarvis s 19 playing in the ahl because of covid. The flyers have a kid Foerster doing the same thing. It's not a knock to be on a good development course but with the cap anymore guys who are in that top tier get moved into the good young player category. Brink and coronato are on the same track probably 3 year college guys and definitely A tier prospects but not immovable blue chip guys. That's actually the guy I said I wanted along with a first

Sorry Jarvis was a bad example, I thought spent all of last year in the AHL but he went back to the WHL. Owen Tippett did spend a year in the AHL though. Krebs, Necas, J. Robertson, Bouchard, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Byfield, Rossi, Boldly, Tomasino, Wahlstrom, Norris, Kyrou, McMichael, and Perfetti. All of these guys recently spent a year in the Minors before being called up.

We aren't even half way through the AHL season, there is no reason to think Pelletier won't get a call up this year.

The entire argument is based on "team X hasn't rushed prospect Y so Prospect Y must not be very good." That is very flawed logic.

Your proposal is also bad, Giroux doesn't warrant that type of return as a rental

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I don't believe anyone is asking about Jarvis, he was brought up as an example of a high draft pick who played in the AHL. He was comparing him to Pelletier because he's currently in the AHL though it's not really a comparison since he was the 26th pick 3 years ago and he's just now in the AHL, not when he was 18. So it was really a discussion about the Flames 1st which would also be in the 20-30 range along with Pelletier who was a late 1st in 2019. That might be more than Giroux will fetch at the deadline but teams do get desperate when they think they think right now is their best opportunity to win a Cup which may be the case for Calgary considering they have a few important pieces due for a new contract next season.

This is irrelevant since Calgary had zero rights to play him in the AHL due to the CHL rules.

 

[StoneHands]

This is irrelevant since Calgary had zero rights to play him in the AHL due to the CHL rules.

Unless I'm mistaken, he could have played in the AHL last season like many other CHL players did because of Covid but they didn't so clearly they wouldn't have played him in the NHL at 18 either. Regardless, you kind of made my point. Comparing an 18 year old like Jarvis playing in the AHL in his draft +1 season to a 20 year old playing in the NHL in his draft +3 season isn't really apples to apples. The point the poster was trying to make before you made this comparison is that if a forward is a blue chip prospect like many people are calling Pelletier, he's typically not spending the season in which he turns 21 in the AHL. It doesn't mean he's not a good player or that he won't be a good NHL player though.