Value of: Claude Giroux to Calgary

[apocalypse]

If there was a year for the Flames to go for it all, this would be it. They lack top-end talent. While Gaudreau is a talent, they should go after someone like Giroux. It'll really boost their top 6. They would definitely be a contender after that. I don't see anyone pushing them around in the playoffs. So add Giroux, and instantly become a contender. Mortgage the farm. (darryl sutter reference there.)

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

If there was a year for the Flames to go for it all, this would be it. They lack top-end talent. While Gaudreau is a talent, they should go after someone like Giroux. It'll really boost their top 6. They would definitely be a contender after that. I don't see anyone pushing them around in the playoffs. So add Giroux, and instantly become a contender. Mortgage the farm. (darryl sutter reference there.)

You still don't move Pelletier for that. Rental's have never gotten that type of return, even high end ones.

1st + Kuznetsov + cap is more realistic of a base

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

LMAO what? Are you seriously comparing a 28 and in his 8th AHL season to a 20 year old rookie? Easily the dumbest thing I've read this entire thread.

You known what Alexandre Giroux had in his first AHL season? 27 points in 70 games, that's 0.39 points per game. That ranked him for 377th in PPG.
Pelletier on the other hand is 3rd in points in the AHL. He also has 27 points, the difference he's only played 23 games so far. That's 1.17 points per game and ranks him at 15th in the league.

There is a saying for things like this "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

I was comparing them purely and 100% on the criteria you made in your original post. Which was to look at the AHL leaderboard

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I was comparing them purely and 100% on the criteria you made in your original post. Which was to look at the AHL leaderboard

Yes, and if you look at the leaderboard you will notice there is a little "*" next to Pelletier's name which indicates "rookie"

So basically you attempted to make a smartass comment and in turn just made yourself look stupid. Got it

 

[glenbuis]

Any opinions from Flyers fans on the below?

Monahan @ ~6.4M
2021 1st
2021 4th

for

Giroux @ ~6.4M (23% retained)

I posted it earlier in the thread and Flames fans seemed okay with it, but didn't get any feedback from Flyers fans?

why not keep your first and fourth and just go gallagher for monohan straight up ?

 

[blankall]

I have no idea why Clode would waive his NMC to go to Calgary or any Canadian team right now for that matter.

If I was him, I'd have a handful of teams maybe that I'd waive for. TBL, FLA, COL, VGK

And the Flyers want to trade Giroux to the team with the worst cup odds, as that team has a better first round pick, and is more likely to have cap space, saving Philly real dollars.

If Giroux has a very restrictive list of teams he's willing to go to, then his value decreases even further, and Philly has to retain.

 

[blankall]

why not keep your first and fourth and just go gallagher for monohan straight up ?

I like Gallagher, but he's not what the Flames need. They need a larger forward, who can score at a 60 point pace in the playoffs.

Gallagher doesn't add size, and his playoff record is below a 40 point pace in his career.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I like Gallagher, but he's not what the Flames need. They need a larger forward, who can score at a 60 point pace in the playoffs.

Gallagher doesn't add size, and his playoff record is below a 40 point pace in his career.

That’s never been done before the only players that have actually scored more then 40 points in one playoff season were Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux.

Most points Giroux put up in one playoff season was 21 points way back in 09-10 playoffs the season the Flyers made the finals.

 

[blankall]

That’s never been done before the only players that have actually scored more then 40 points in one playoff season were Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux.

Most points Giroux put up in one playoff season was 21 points way back in 09-10 playoffs the season the Flyers made the finals.

Was talking per 82 games. So roughly .75 ppg.

 

[Double Dion]

I think Giroux is the wrong piece. I don't want to pay a premium for a guy who has been a lifelong flyer. I'd rather shoot for a pure rental guy like Pavelski. He's better defensively, more of a goal scorer than playmaker and has lots of playoff experience. I think he'd come cheaper than Giroux and provide just as much.

 

[FlyguyOX]

You still don't move Pelletier for that. Rental's have never gotten that type of return, even high end ones.

1st + Kuznetsov + cap is more realistic of a base

Yeah I'd take that offer over Pelletier for Giroux, too. I agree.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yeah I'd take that offer over Pelletier for Giroux, too. I agree.

To clarify that would be with 50% retention. It's impossible to fit Claude under the cap without it

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I think Giroux is the wrong piece. I don't want to pay a premium for a guy who has been a lifelong flyer. I'd rather shoot for a pure rental guy like Pavelski. He's better defensively, more of a goal scorer than playmaker and has lots of playoff experience. I think he'd come cheaper than Giroux and provide just as much.

Pavelski and Giroux will (if both get moved) have nearly identical prices. Both are veteran RHS rentals with solid defensive games. (Why do you say Pavs is better defensively, they are about the same).

Calgary lacks goal scoring depth but don't really lack goal scorers. Mangiapane, Monahan, Coleman, and Dube are perfectly capable of putting the puck in the back of the net off 1 timers. The problem is 3 of those names are snake bitten. Personally I think the bottom 9 has more of a lack of play making, and Giroux would be able to help fix that better.

 

[Double Dion]

Pavelski and Giroux will (if both get moved) have nearly identical prices. Both are veteran RHS rentals with solid defensive games. (Why do you say Pavs is better defensively, they are about the same).

Calgary lacks goal scoring depth but don't really lack goal scorers. Mangiapane, Monahan, Coleman, and Dube are perfectly capable of putting the puck in the back of the net off 1 timers. The problem is 3 of those names are snake bitten. Personally I think the bottom 9 has more of a lack of play making, and Giroux would be able to help fix that better.

Several things wrong with this post.

1. Monahan doesn't have a one timer. Neither does Coleman. Mangiapane and Dube do, but it's not exactly an Ovechkin one timer. Dube is closer to being a healthy scratch right now than he is to being a top 6 solution.

2. We do lack goal scorers. 4 players have 59% of our team's goals. Mangiapane is on pace for 50 goals shooting 24%. He's a good bet to regress. Lucic is also not going to score 22 like he's on pace for.

3. Giroux is a below average defensive player historically away from Couturier.

 

[Sparky93]

I think Giroux is the wrong piece. I don't want to pay a premium for a guy who has been a lifelong flyer. I'd rather shoot for a pure rental guy like Pavelski. He's better defensively, more of a goal scorer than playmaker and has lots of playoff experience. I think he'd come cheaper than Giroux and provide just as much.

I don't see either guy waiving to the Flames. Giroux has a full NMC. Pavelski has a 3 team list and has never played for a Canadian team, at any level. Not to mention that the Flames have never backed the truck up for any pure rental. Neither idea is very realistic, especially with the retention required.

 

[McJedi]

Being reported by NRD that Fletcher has the price set very high right now (understandably).

Good top young prospect forward that can step in and play immediately.
B level prospect
1st

so
Pelletier
Phillips
1st

I doubt Philly fetches that much. The first and a B prospect is probably the best they can hope for.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Several things wrong with this post.

1. Monahan doesn't have a one timer. Neither does Coleman. Mangiapane and Dube do, but it's not exactly an Ovechkin one timer. Dube is closer to being a healthy scratch right now than he is to being a top 6 solution.

2. We do lack goal scorers. 4 players have 59% of our team's goals. Mangiapane is on pace for 50 goals shooting 24%. He's a good bet to regress. Lucic is also not going to score 22 like he's on pace for.

3. Giroux is a below average defensive player historically away from Couturier.

1. Monahan has been known for his 1 timing ability his entire career. 1 timer's don't always have to be slap shots, in fact most 1 timers are snap shots. I never called Dube a top 6 solution, no idea why you are bringing that up

2. No we are lacking depth scoring because the teams 2 primary playmakers are on the 1st line, and arguably the 3rd best playmaker is centering them. We have players that can pot the puck in the net but no one to pass it to them. 59% of goals being on 4 players is not the point. 3 of the 4 players I mentioned above are well below their career shooting percentages. Adding a playmaker for them would 100% help with their scoring. I am not saying adding another goal scorer like Pavs, Forsberg, or Toffoli is a bad idea, I am correcting you on what the actual issue is.

3. This is just not correct, even so it's not like he wouldn't be playing with strong defensive players

 

[Double Dion]

1. Monahan has been known for his 1 timing ability his entire career. 1 timer's don't always have to be slap shots, in fact most 1 timers are snap shots. I never called Dube a top 6 solution, no idea why you are bringing that up

2. No we are lacking depth scoring because the teams 2 primary playmakers are on the 1st line, and arguably the 3rd best playmaker is centering them. We have players that can pot the puck in the net but no one to pass it to them. 59% of goals being on 4 players is not the point. 3 of the 4 players I mentioned above are well below their career shooting percentages. Adding a playmaker for them would 100% help with their scoring. I am not saying adding another goal scorer like Pavs, Forsberg, or Toffoli is a bad idea, I am correcting you on what the actual issue is.

3. This is just not correct, even so it's not like he wouldn't be playing with strong defensive players

Monahan is absolutely not known for one timing pucks. He's known for an accurate wrist shot and the ability to get the puck up in tight. It's hard to believe anyone who watches hockey wouldn't know that.

Yes, we have 4 forwards who are above average scorers and one defenseman who is above average offensively. Our top 4 forwards bring some punch, but they aren't elite either. Gaudreau is our only player who can create something from nothing even if Lindholm is the better all-around player.

It is correct that Giroux has higher than average corsi against and HDSCA than average away from Couturier. This is a fact, not an opinion. I never said he wouldn't be playing with strong defensive forwards.

The strength of our club is strong defensive forwards. The strength of the team has been checking in general since Sutter came aboard. Giroux doesn't do that well. That's why someone who does would be a better fit.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Monahan is absolutely not known for one timing pucks. He's known for an accurate wrist shot and the ability to get the puck up in tight. It's hard to believe anyone who watches hockey wouldn't know that.

Yes, we have 4 forwards who are above average scorers and one defenseman who is above average offensively. Our top 4 forwards bring some punch, but they aren't elite either. Gaudreau is our only player who can create something from nothing even if Lindholm is the better all-around player.

It is correct that Giroux has higher than average corsi against and HDSCA than average away from Couturier. This is a fact, not an opinion. I never said he wouldn't be playing with strong defensive forwards.

The strength of our club is strong defensive forwards. The strength of the team has been checking in general since Sutter came aboard. Giroux doesn't do that well. That's why someone who does would be a better fit.

I really feel like you don't know what a 1 timer is. It's when you receive a pass and shoot/pass the puck with only 1 touch. A large number of Monahan's career goals have been 1 touch snap shots from the slot or in tight. 1 timers are not just bombs from the top of the circle. Maybe you and I just have different definitions of a 1 timer and in which case this is pointless to argue.

I'm not arguing the goal results from this season so far so I don't really get why you keep bringing them up. I'm fully aware who has been scored goals. I am arguing the fact that the team has a number of guys shooting well below their career averages. I am saying that QoT could be a major factor to this. Lack of playmaking can lead to very poor HD chances. For example look at Brady Tkachuk, for multiple years now he has been top 10 in SoG. However his actual goals count has never looked good. This is due to QoT, Tkachuk has been the sole offensive driving force in Ottawa for some time but hasn't had the teammates to help.

Are these numbers for Giroux below average compared to the league or below average to what his total numbers are? Can you show the numbers too. Otherwise I'm going to stick to the numbers I have (from EW) that say he is perfectly fine defensively even away from Couts.

Gaudreau also doesn't do either of those 2 things well yet he has thrived under Sutter's system. I think you are simplifying the system way too much and just assuming it won't work well with Giroux. Pavelski could very well be a better fit but he is also probably less likely to waive to a Canadian team (not that either would anyways). Personally I want Calgary to pursue Toffoli at the TDL over both of them as he cost less, has term, and is proven to thrive under Sutter

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I doubt Philly fetches that much. The first and a B prospect is probably the best they can hope for.

If 50 percent retained and there's a bidding war, certainly can get more than that. Giroux is a monster still, IMO.

 

[Sparky93]

If 50 percent retained and there's a bidding war, certainly can get more than that. Giroux is a monster still, IMO.

You make it sound like anything is possible. Giroux is probably only going to except a trade to 2-4 locations

 

[BrindamoursNose]

You make it sound like anything is possible. Giroux is probably only going to except a trade to 2-4 locations

A bidding war even between 2 teams can get the outcome I was referring to.

Giroux's potentially going to be the best TDL piece available in a while. Better than Hall was, IMO.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

A bidding war even between 2 teams can get the outcome I was referring to.

Giroux's potentially going to be the best TDL piece available in a while. Better than Hall was, IMO.

Forsberg, Hertl, Pavelski, Kessel, potentially Malkin and Letang. You are definitely exaggerating

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Forsberg, Hertl, Pavelski, Kessel, potentially Malkin and Letang. You are definitely exaggerating

Giroux is a better player than all of those guys (minus Malkin), unless you meant Peter Forsberg. Teams may potentially pay a little more for Letang as a D-Man, but at-best it's a wash IMO.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Giroux is a better player than all of those guys (minus Malkin), unless you meant Peter Forsberg. Teams may potentially pay a little more for Letang as a D-Man, but at-best it's a wash IMO.

Your bias is showing