I think he made a pretty compelling point in there. If habs trade him, who play C? We literally have no capable C beside him and Suzuki. I just don’t see the temptation to deal him at this point unless its a “I can’t refuse” type of offer. Nothing wrong in keeping the guy to shelter the younger guys until his contract expires
Value of: Christian Dvorak to the Leafs
- Thread starter Brobust
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malcb33
Registered User
Despite the two players' point totals being similar, I see them as having quite skillsets.
While Kerfoot gets offered around in proposals here all the time, but I actually think he's quite useful to the right team. He is OK defensively and can drive play with his speed and edge work, he's a decent playmaker too. Dvorak is a quiet type of player, he's decent defensively, good on Faceoffs, and a fairly solid playmaker too. He won't drive the play and needs good linemates to push the pace of the game. IMO he's been a little disappointing due to the price Montreal paid for him, but that's not his fault.
TLDR: Kerfoot can drive the play, Dvorak is the better center and at faceoffs, so it depends on what you want.
IMO- Dvorak's skillset is more valuable to both teams at the moment, so Toronto would have sweeten the pot.
While Kerfoot gets offered around in proposals here all the time, but I actually think he's quite useful to the right team. He is OK defensively and can drive play with his speed and edge work, he's a decent playmaker too. Dvorak is a quiet type of player, he's decent defensively, good on Faceoffs, and a fairly solid playmaker too. He won't drive the play and needs good linemates to push the pace of the game. IMO he's been a little disappointing due to the price Montreal paid for him, but that's not his fault.
TLDR: Kerfoot can drive the play, Dvorak is the better center and at faceoffs, so it depends on what you want.
IMO- Dvorak's skillset is more valuable to both teams at the moment, so Toronto would have sweeten the pot.
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Pyrophorus
Registered User
Halakitlikethat
Registered User
I’m sure there would be a team that wants him but would he fill a need for Toronto? Not sure he would
A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
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My guess is Dubas targets some other players tbh...
Jared McCann
Anthony DeAngelo
Justin Bailey
Colin Miller
If I had to guess based on nothing but where they played juniors.
Jared McCann
Anthony DeAngelo
Justin Bailey
Colin Miller
If I had to guess based on nothing but where they played juniors.
pth2
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Dach is being used as a RW, and he's the only guy who's gelled well with Suzuki and Caufield. The only other decent fit was Monahan, who's a UFA and likely gone. I don't see Montreal re-signing him, unless his market value is so low that he'll take a lower cap, short-term deal.
Of all the forwards the Habs should or would hope to dump, this guy isn’t all that high on such a list.
As such, Habs should probably ask for a legit asset. Regardless of if he’s worth it or not. The idea of keeping Dvorak for a while shouldn’t or doesn’t cripple the Habs.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I don't think our ability to find a top 2C without Dubois is that easy even if we have two potential top 10 picks in this draft. It's not a easy piece to find. We like to think you can find a top 2C if you have a top 10 pick but prospects do bust in that top 10 and some end up wingers.
Having too many centers is a good problem. Even if you draft Bedard, he can still be a puck possession winger and drive the play after the faceoff. I'm sure Bedard would welcome playing on wing with a talent like Dubois and vice versa. Talent needs to play with talent and players make exceptions if they are playing with good talent. Drai with McDavid for example? Even Point with Tampa has played RW at times. Stamkos plays wing and center.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Agreed. I believe we are going to retain one or both of Monahan and Dvorak. We don't have NHL ready centers in our prospect pool. And the Habs have seen the struggles Slaf is going through with weak centers and he only started to look better when he played with Monahan. Dvorak is a 3C and Slaf should be playing with a good 2C. Who knows if Monahan can hold that 25 game value he provided but in those 25 games, he was a good piece behind Suzuki and for Slaf to play with.
Habs are still going through rebuild/transition years for a while yet. But the selling assets narrative is fluid. Depends on what we are being offered and also depends on what Monahan would sign to stay. If that happens, Dvorak may be traded at a later date but we would be in no rush to do so.
If Monahan is extended and we really do get in a sign/trade for Dubois, Dvorak might go the other way in the package (potentially). Depends what the Jets think but if they are thinking rebuild, Dvorak fits for those years cause if they don't take Dvorak back, they still would need to sign a center and with UFA, they might have to overpay both in AAV and term.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I think the Leafs are going to add 2 or 3 pieces if they can fit it in their cap. It's the right time for them to make moves cause if it's another 1st round exit, Dubas might loose his job.
I believe the Leafs are after big boys that skate well. They don't need more offense. They need warriors but not slow ones. A healthy ROR does fit.
pth2
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All true. But in terms of team makeup, if we have Suzuki, Fantili (for example) and Dubois making 8+ million, that can very quickly become a constraint on building a winning team. I guess it all comes down to getting Dubois for a number that doesn't mean we *have* to move Dach or Beck (for example) in 3 years if they've been playing great hockey.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Dubois at $8.5M is not going to hurt the Habs cap. You don't say no because we think Dach and Beck are going to break the bank later.
Think about Beck vs Dubois time line. Dubois comes for 8 years in a sign/trade this summer. Beck starts in the NHL two years later at age 20. 6 years left for Dubois at that time. Take 3 years of Beck's ELC off that and we have 3 left. You can bridge Beck at that point just like Tampa did with Point and by that time, the cap is $90M - $100M range.
The only guy that breaks the bank in 3+ years is Bedard... if we win the lottery. Even Guhle is probably bridged as well and that's 2 more years after this one.
Remember saying no to ROR because we didn't want to trade Poehling to the Sabres? Thinking he was a top 2C solution for us down the road? Blues traded Thompson for him but that situation is very very rare. Sorry but saying no to Dubois is not smart.
The Habs benefited from winning the last trade deadline and don’t need to win them all given y’all have a very good prospect pool already and frankly, won’t have roster spots for all of them.
This Team should be in building mode now. Not deconstruction. Don’t want to let bad habits and losing start to infect your young core. If Dvorak isn’t a problem guy, he should likely be kept around to help the current team compete. To teach and mentor. To be a pro. There is ample value in this for team building.
A last thing. When Dvorak is in the final year of his deal… at 50% retention, that dude could potentially fetch a 1st. Probably would.
I get told I hate the Habs a lot but in reality, it’s a team that interests me from how it’s strategically run. And I think their current GM is on the better side of the mean for NHL GMs. The roster has obvious pros and cons but it’s a team that can drive league wide business based on their collection of assets with an active GM and ownership that spends.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Guhle was our grade A. Xhekaj is a surprise. Slaf? Not sure yet.
Our pool is deep but it's full of grade B+ types. We need more quality at this stage. Not all those B+ types will turn into who think they will. If we bat 1/3, we will be lucky. Lots of good development trends but IMO, those pieces fill holes at cheap ELC/bridge deals. Depth wont be an issue but top end talent might be.
There is a 5 year age gap from Suzuki to Slaf and a 6 year age gap between Suzuki and this next draft. If we add Dubois, it becomes a 7 year age gap from him to the next drafted guys (age 24 vs 17 today). That's the range and when Suzuki/Dubois are 28/29, Slaf and the drafted guys in this next draft are 22/23. Everyone else we plan on keeping will be in the middle of that. It's a good situation but we need to target quality and that can be with trades, UFA signings, or with the draft.
These next 3-5 years are a mixture of transition years but still some rebuilding mixed in. Potential contending years are around the 5 year mark. We are not getting out of this hole that quickly
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pth2
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I'd need to do a spreadsheet to work this out.... I don't want us to turn into the Toronto Maple Leafs, with a handful of high-end forwards and having to constantly improvise some depth around them.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
It won't cause the probability to get talent like that is very low. If that is your plan, trade Suzuki now and keep trying to draft #1OA for years like the Oilers did cause by the time you hit on a star, Suzuki will be 30+
Bedard is the one who breaks the bank... if we win the lottery. Habs have space to sign Caufield at $8M and also space to keep both Monahan and Dvorak while we add Dubois and Klingberg.
Aside from Bedard, who makes $10M+ with the assets we got? It's not Dach or Beck or even Guhle.
Habs are on the Sens and Sabres track but we are a few years behind them in the process. It's very unlikely we will be built top heavy like the Oilers and Leafs.
WinterLion
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Yes but teams that go far in the playoffs have legit #1 Dmen.... and I like Reilly but I don't think he enough...
First thing is that the Habs can’t look at what they traded for Dvorak. That was then with a different management team and this is now. Sometimes you just need to accept your losses.
To start off there is a reason why all of Dvorak’s coaches like him; he is steady, reliable, good defensively and good at face offs. Don’t rely upon him to put up big offensive numbers. Minus this year but the three years prior he was around the 0.6 PPG mark each season. He would actually slot in well at center behind Matthews and Tavares taking defensive responsibilities away from them.
The biggest hurdle is his contract. He is making 4.45 million this year and the next two. The Leafs are tight to the cap and would need to send salary back to make a trade work. I can’t see Montreal retaining any salary because it doesn’t make sense to do it for two plus seasons. The player that makes the most sense to trade is Muzzin. He is making 5.625 million for this year and next.
Now that trade would have to come with a pretty big sweetener. Then again if the Leafs are able to LTIR Muzzin for next year then they will most likely just keep him and do that.
To start off there is a reason why all of Dvorak’s coaches like him; he is steady, reliable, good defensively and good at face offs. Don’t rely upon him to put up big offensive numbers. Minus this year but the three years prior he was around the 0.6 PPG mark each season. He would actually slot in well at center behind Matthews and Tavares taking defensive responsibilities away from them.
The biggest hurdle is his contract. He is making 4.45 million this year and the next two. The Leafs are tight to the cap and would need to send salary back to make a trade work. I can’t see Montreal retaining any salary because it doesn’t make sense to do it for two plus seasons. The player that makes the most sense to trade is Muzzin. He is making 5.625 million for this year and next.
Now that trade would have to come with a pretty big sweetener. Then again if the Leafs are able to LTIR Muzzin for next year then they will most likely just keep him and do that.
Yet Dvorak is young defensively responsible player on a reasonable contract. He is a very good 3C, who can play 2C on a meh team.
His value is easily a late first and extra picks will be thrown in if there is a bidding’s war. Habs may have overpaid a bit, yet it is not like they could have gotten a better center for those picks.
Why do you say Dvorak is good defensively? He consistently gets blown out in shot share year after year. What is good about that defensively?
He is also on the 1PK that is #23 in the league. What is good about that defensively?
Then don't trade those picks.
If I have a car worth 25K but I sell it for 100K that doesn't make the car worth 100K that means I found a sucker who I convinced to over pay.
It is not his fault the teams he played for were always awful.
He did make the 1PK team of the Habs. Doesn’t mean he is great, but that fact that he is on a 1PK team (albeit an awful one) accounts for something.
Look at the last trades for centers over the past few years. Given Dvo is young and on a reasonable contract, the Habs did not overpay by much.
If Dvo is an overpayment, than what center was traded for a fair price.
No, he gets to play on the PK1 because his teams are awful and he contributes to that.
He has a bad shot share relative to his bad teams.
He is negative value to his contract.
