Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

[26Mats]

lol selke performance. Playoff was all Price defensively. Stop this narrative. with a regular season Price we had last season if he kept like that and did not up his game into the playoff , we would have lost in 4 games against Toronto.

Also if you could describe Dvorak , he would be the vanilla of the vanilla. I don't see anything positive coming from that player in our org. He lack of everything and has no desire to play at all here.

Danault is gone so, I'm not going to spend time debating him...

As for Dvorak, hard for me to say he's not trying or just slow. Not sure why he wouldn't want to be here and/or give a good/different account of himself. I just think he's slow and therefore not very good. He's good at things that don't require skating - faceoffs, in front of the net on the pp, and can handle him self in the corners. Could be a potentially useful winger and pp C, if every team around the league sees it the way you (and I) see it and there are no takers.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Guy obviously doesn't want to be in MTL.

Hopefully, Kent sends him packing somehow.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Danault is gone so, I'm not going to spend time debating him...

As for Dvorak, hard for me to say he's not trying or just slow. Not sure why he wouldn't want to be here and/or give a good/different account of himself. I just think he's slow and therefore not very good. He's good at things that don't require skating - faceoffs, in front of the net on the pp, and can handle him self in the corners. Could be a potentially useful winger and pp C, if every team around the league sees it the way you (and I) see it and there are no takers.

Well let me say this about Dvorak. He finished building his house in Arizona and got traded into Montreal... taxes.. snow...
Dvorak was playing in 1 of the worst team in the league chilling and he got traded into a worse Arizona who all core players are gone or done.

Can you understand the guy? It wont surprise me if hes gone at the draft , the guy just doesnt want to be here. His face shows it all. Ive never seen someone so disconnected from his team. Also that same face that Petry has. Look what Petry will do? Leave.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Not sure I understand the 1920's reference?

And that is the market value for a 2 way C that paces at 19/19.

Last full season played, 18-19 there were 138 players that had more then 40 points. Remove D men and there were around 115 forwards. There are 180 or so players that play top 6 in the NHL.

I think you are in the wrong era pal, if you think that 4.5MM for 40 points AND PK usage AND regular strength defensive assignments is a bad deal? Paid to acquire that contract buddy you aren't even close. This board will be wrong like they were with Chiarot, Eddy and many others. Bergevin Derangement Syndrome is still alive and well.

Are those players divided evenly among NHL teams?

Also does it include players who in example played 50 games and had 38 points. Do injuries drop players from your list and top-6?

I wouldn't say that's very good data to say who belongs to top-6. You're trying to crunch insufficient numbers and make very harsh assumptions. Also, just because you play top-6 in a shitty bottom of a barrel team doesn't guarantee you're top-6 material. Bozovin thought he found diamond in the rough when he actually found just what he is, a third liner put into position where he doesn't belong to.

Let's say he's top-6 player (which is a stretch). Now, he's very borderline top-6 player from an awful team. Why would you build on him, using assets for a patch that in the end makes situation worse than it was. Low scoring and slow face off specialist.

Which market value, free agency market value where David Backes gets 6 million?
Sure. Market value for 1st and 2nd, never. That is absolutely horrendous asset management. As said above by someone else, no one in this league would buy him for this price. Not sure we could get even a second.

 

[26Mats]

Well let me say this about Dvorak. He finished building his house in Arizona and got traded into Montreal... taxes.. snow...
Dvorak was playing in 1 of the worst team in the league chilling and he got traded into a worse Arizona who all core players are gone or done.

Can you understand the guy? It wont surprise me if hes gone at the draft , the guy just doesnt want to be here. His face shows it all. Ive never seen someone so disconnected from his team. Also that same face that Petry has. Look what Petry will do? Leave.

You may be right. But I remember hearing a Rick Tocchet interview on tsn690 - who coached him. He said he's a good kid, good player. But he's a really, really, really, quiet guy. He said you won't get much out of him, so won't know how to read him at first. But he's a good guy and appreciated by his teammates. So, based on that I'm not trying to read his facial expressions...

But there was a report in tvasports.ca that Habs were trying to trade him leading up to the TDL.. I'm fine with cutting ties and giving his ice time to Poehling, Evans, and hopefully another young C we get via the draft or by trading a vet. I wanted Newhook. But I think Sakic only traded Barron because of how stacked they are on D. After losing Kadri this summer, they'll need Newhook going forward.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

You may be right. But I remember hearing a Rick Tocchet interview on tsn690 - who coached him. He said he's a good kid, good player. But he's a really, really, really, quiet guy. He said you won't get much out of him, so won't know how to read him at first. But he's a good guy and appreciated by his teammates. So, based on that I'm not trying to read his facial expressions...

But there was a report in tvasports.ca that Habs were trying to trade him leading up to the TDL.. I'm fine with cutting ties and giving his ice time to Poehling, Evans, and hopefully another young C we get via the draft or by trading a vet. I wanted Newhook. But I think Sakic only traded Barron because of how stacked they are on D. After losing Kadri this summer, they'll need Newhook going forward.

I mean i wont paint him as cancer room because he doesnt want to play here and it was never his choice. I never said he was not a good person but the interest of him playing in Montreal is ... none.

But yeah Dvorak had rumours going for him. Colorado and Minnesota were interested. Wouldnt surprise me Colorado biting if they cant keep Kadri. They have Newhook and Dvorak would fit until hes ready

 

[26Mats]

I mean i wont paint him as cancer room because he doesnt want to play here and it was never his choice. I never said he was not a good person but the interest of him playing in Montreal is ... none.

But yeah Dvorak had rumours going for him. Colorado and Minnesota were interested. Wouldnt surprise me Colorado biting if they cant keep Kadri. They have Newhook and Dvorak would fit until hes ready

I wanted to do Dvorak 50% retained + ? and they give us Newhook. But not sure we have anything else they would want, given they're set on D. I think Erik Johnson has a No Move, so we couldn't take his contract back as part of the deal and give them someone like Petry or Edmundson...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I wanted to do Dvorak 50% retained + ? and they give us Newhook. But not sure we have anything else they would want, given they're set on D. I think Erik Johnson has a No Move, so we couldn't take his contract back as part of the deal and give them someone like Petry or Edmundson...

Id rather trade Dvorak with is full money , Return wont be great but fine.

 

[JoelWarlord]

lol selke performance. Playoff was all Price defensively. Stop this narrative. with a regular season Price we had last season if he kept like that and did not up his game into the playoff , we would have lost in 4 games against Toronto.

Yes, Price was phenomenal in the playoffs. It's also "sky is green" level denial of reality to pretend that Danault's shutdown role in the playoffs was anything short of exceptional.

It's not a coincidence that Matthews, Marner, Ehlers, Dubois, Pacioretty, and Stone all went absolutely ice cold when they faced Danault, and that we lost in the finals when Cooper took one look at that line and got Point and Kucherov the hell away from the Danault matchup.

And no, that doesn't mean I think we should have signed him.

 

[Runner77]

Well let me say this about Dvorak. He finished building his house in Arizona and got traded into Montreal... taxes.. snow...
Dvorak was playing in 1 of the worst team in the league chilling and he got traded into a worse Arizona who all core players are gone or done.

Can you understand the guy? It wont surprise me if hes gone at the draft , the guy just doesnt want to be here. His face shows it all. Ive never seen someone so disconnected from his team. Also that same face that Petry has. Look what Petry will do? Leave.

Dvorak has an emotionless resting face. I doubt anyone can really tell what he's thinking based on the facial expressions we see of him here and there for a few seconds or in a pic. Maybe he's just the type of guy that bottles up everything and doesn't like to show his feelings, good or bad, who knows.

Your argument about having built a house and having committed to have a home in Arizona, might play some part. However, he's in the wrong business if he expected not to be traded during his career. He's not the type of player who can demand a full-fledged no trade clause -- he only has a partial NTC limited to 8 teams. A guy with his high earning capability can't get hung up on a house.

As for comparing him to Petry, I'd argue that he's a totally different proposition. Petry's dirty laundry has been on display for all to see all thanks to social media and the player's request for a trade having been publicized.

We don't know much about Dvorak. Habs are bringing out the best in him right now and that's really all they can do -- maybe a suitor will notice his season-ending play and he'll draw interest this summer.

 

[The Great Weal]

Id rather trade Dvorak with is full money , Return wont be great but fine.

Just don't see why this is a necessity. If we get another 1st and 2nd then sure, but as of now, we still need a center since it falls off a cliff after Suzuki and we are not competing.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

He is actually paid 5,5 M per season.

Great, and he'd still be worth a million more.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

It was being sarcastic. It was such a disastrous move that it created something good: an accidental tank and MB getting himself fired.

From day one I wanted to keep Danault and didn't like losing him for nothing and then giving up a 1st and a 2nd for uknown Dvorak. I wasn't one of the ones that looked at Danault's goal column and unflinchingly said: Dvorak will be better than Danault. LMFAO at them.

Now it makes sense. I kindda remember you were not happy to lose Danault. Good to know some people here knows hockey. Lol, "knows hockey" I know it sounds so pretentious, sarcasm after sarcasm over sarcasm, lol.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Well he's gone, unfortunately, and what's done is done.

Suzuki is showing he's a 1c. Glad to see Evan's and Poehling playing well lately. Between them I think we'll have a good 3c. Just need to hopefully get a 1a/b C (center) in this year's draft. If we can do that, we'll be in a really good position going forward...

Long term, Dvorak can play wing or be traded.

Well, Dvorak, Armia, Gallagher and Hoffman, that makes 4 overpaid players signed long term who are paid like 1rst or 2nd liners and playing like 3rd liners. In my book, that's not good. But on the other side, Danault is fitting perfectly in LA.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Great, and he'd still be worth a million more.

Making the difference between a team not making the PO and a team making the PO, 5,5M is a cheap price to pay.

 

[26Mats]

Well, Dvorak, Armia, Gallagher and Hoffman, that makes 4 overpaid players signed long term who are paid like 1rst or 2nd liners and playing like 3rd liners. In my book, that's not good. But on the other side, Danault is fitting perfectly in LA.

Yes, I think we're pretty screwed short term. Which is why I'd go with the young guys, even if there are many vets on the payroll.

At least Dvorak may be traded, Hoffman only has 2 years left, and Armia can play a 4th line role well. It's not out of the question that Gallagher can come back as a 20 goal scorer next year. We'll see.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Yes, I think we're pretty screwed short term. Which is why I'd go with the young guys, even if there are many vets on the payroll.

At least Dvorak may be traded, Hoffman only has 2 years left, and Armia can play a 4th line role well. It's not out of the question that Gallagher can come back as a 20 goal scorer next year. We'll see.

Yes, a good coach can put his players on different lines, find fast skaters to minimise the lack of speed of some, etc. Not the perfect solution but it can work. I hope one of them can be traded. For Dvorak I think it's impossible to get a 1 and 2 back for him. I don't think Dvo can be a faster skater, unless he have some hidden injury but I doubt it. If Gallagher can have a a center who carry the puck, he can score 20 and +. I checked Hoffman's stats and I saw he's always in the -, that means he tries to score despite the defensive plays, that means he is going offence and misses his chances more that the opposite lines. That explains his minus stats. And on top of this let's not forget the bad contracts of Drouin and Petry. That's why I'm optimistic for the Habs only when I think of the young players and in the 2024 to 2030 era.

 

[26Mats]

Yes, a good coach can put his players on different lines, find fast skaters to minimise the lack of speed of some, etc. Not the perfect solution but it can work. I hope one of them can be traded. For Dvorak I think it's impossible to get a 1 and 2 back for him. I don't think Dvo can be a faster skater, unless he have some hidden injury but I doubt it. If Gallagher can have a a center who carry the puck, he can score 20 and +. I checked Hoffman's stats and I saw he's always in the -, that means he tries to score despite the defensive plays, that means he is going offence and misses his chances more that the opposite lines. That explains his minus stats. And on top of this let's not forget the bad contracts of Drouin and Petry. That's why I'm optimistic for the Habs only when I think of the young players and in the 2024 to 2030 era.

At least Drouin is done after next year.

Petry has trade value, imo. Dvorak, we won't get back what we paid.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I'd be surprised if Montreal is looking to deal Dvorak.

 

[Kojo]

I would rather have the first round draft pick back but Dvorak is only 26 years old which could coincide with a new window of opportunity in a couple of years when the young guns start firing.

 

[Scriptor]

Dvorak either finds a new gear with the right partners and plays like a 2nd line C or he falls in as an excellent 3rd line c who can step up in case of injuries once huge have found a 2nd top-6 C, somehow, whether it be through the draft, the UFA market or a savvy trade.

If Dvorak wants to play in Montreal, he will thrive (as best he can) under St-Louis. The only thing that bugs me about him for a top-6 C (if that's where we hope to slot him) is his lack of speed. We've had many slower two-way Cs I the past who have done well, but not in the top-6, IMHO.

 

[CHfan1]

Making the difference between a team not making the PO and a team making the PO, 5,5M is a cheap price to pay.

While Danault is a good player and a good pickup by the Kings; he is not the difference between the Habs making the playoffs or not this season.

 

[Hins77]

Dvorak is actually paid like a 3rd centerman… I mean, at his age, I don’t think is contract will badly age..

 

[dcyhabs]

While Danault is a good player and a good pickup by the Kings; he is not the difference between the Habs making the playoffs or not this season.

He wouldn't be enough to drag the habs into the playoffs but he'd help, and he's helping the Kings. Don't get why he wasn't appreciated here. I still suspect that MB got rid of him because he was outgoing with the media and cut into Bergevin's media footprint.

 

[FF de Mars]

I wonder why people think Danault would have signed if Bergevin gave him more money. Money isn't everything, Danault has loads of it. I suspect his gf and him wanted to live in LA under the sun or something like that. Maybe he didn't like the direction Bergevin was taking too. To my eyes it isn't obvious at all Danault didn't sign with the Habs because of money and I don't think we should make that assumption in our discourse.