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Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

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I think you need to write off anyones performance this year during DDs reign. It’s obvious no one knew what to do in his system and everyone was in disarray and gave up on him. Evaluation began when MSL took over. That’s a far more accurate measure.
 
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He sure has looked a lot better since he came back, that much is very clear. In a way it's even more stunning than with guys like Suzuki and Caufield, since Dvorak went from barely looking like an NHLer to start the season. It feels like a shortcut to put it all on Ducharme but I'm at a lost to find any other explanation.
 
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Pompeius Magnus said:
He sure has looked a lot better since he came back, that much is very clear. In a way it's even more stunning than with guys like Suzuki and Caufield, since Dvorak went from barely looking like an NHLer to start the season. It feels like a shortcut to put it all on Ducharme but I'm at a lost to find any other explanation.
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You'd be hard pressed to find any single player who was playing their best hockey under ducharme this year, so I dont think we should be any more stunned if Dvorak looks better under st louis, unless we believe that every player on the team just happened to experience their nhl declines at the same time.

The team looked confused and uninspired under ducharme. At least under msl, the team looks to be playing with conviction, win or lose, so that coaching move has brought alot of their players out of their doldrums.
 
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aresknights said:
Was your evaluation based on +/-?
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By watching every game. He's been SIGNIFICANTLY better under MSL but he was atrocious at the start of the year. I'm giving everyone a pass for how they played under Ducharme because he was that bad, but yes Dvo was definitely horrendous defensively.

I don't mind keeping him as a stop gap for now. If we get the exact price we paid to acquire him back, I'm fine with trading him too since you'd like him to be faster.
 
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Catanddogguitarrr said:
Not so long gone. After all, Danault was right, he had some offensive side that wasn't considered from MB.
Go check Danault's stats with the Kings, he is having the best season of his carreer, he make produce Moore and Arvidson, two wingers that doesn't cost as much as Gallagher and Hoffman.
The questiong is : how many years Habs will take to replace adequatly a defensive C like Danault, he is a good second C, taking a lot of pressure and in the + (+16).
If you tell me Dvorak will replace adequatly Danault with skating school, expect me to laught because it's not true and surrealistic.
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I never understood the Danault hate. He's a very good player. It seems now that hate has shifted to Dvorak, who is also a good player. Maybe he's not as good as Danault - to be honest it's difficult to know at this point the way the season has gone. But he seems to be in the same ballpark in terms of style of play. So maybe he's destined to be hated by a certain segment of Habs fans. Are they the same ones who later complain about them being gone? It's possible.
 
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ExpatHabs said:
I think his lack of presence, lack of enthusiasm, and his mediocre production/performance are indicators that he hasn't integrated. I could be totally wrong, of course - but if he's traded away, we'll likely hear some of the gossip.

He's production hasn't improved and his sh% is right at his career avg. If this is all he is then the Habs made a terrible decision with that that trade, big time

I'll take your word for it. Maybe he's just got resting misery face.
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Maybe he’d be happier to go back to Zona and play in that 4,500 seat field house Eh! I still like him on draws and in front of the net however.
 
Harry Kakalovich said:
I never understood the Danault hate. He's a very good player. It seems now that hate has shifted to Dvorak, who is also a good player. Maybe he's not as good as Danault - to be honest it's difficult to know at this point the way the season has gone. But he seems to be in the same ballpark in terms of style of play. So maybe he's destined to be hated by a certain segment of Habs fans. Are they the same ones who later complain about them being gone? It's possible.
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Say what you want about Danault, but he gave a consistent effort every night. He just wasn’t a first line center and seemed snakebite around the net. That seems to have turned around for him this year. Hope he can keep it up
 
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Cournoyer12 said:
Say what you want about Danault, but he gave a consistent effort every night. He just wasn’t a first line center and seemed snakebite around the net. That seems to have turned around for him this year. Hope he can keep it up
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One of Bergevin's biggest blunders signing Gallagher to the money he should have offered to Danault.
 
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The Great Weal said:
By watching every game. He's been SIGNIFICANTLY better under MSL but he was atrocious at the start of the year. I'm giving everyone a pass for how they played under Ducharme because he was that bad, but yes Dvo was definitely horrendous defensively.

I don't mind keeping him as a stop gap for now. If we get the exact price we paid to acquire him back, I'm fine with trading him too since you'd like him to be faster.
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if he miserable , he should know from petry they will only trade him if they get value and thus he needs to up his game
 
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Tyson said:
One of Bergevin's biggest blunders signing Gallagher to the money he should have offered to Danault.
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Maybe too much at 6.5 but both Danault and Gally would be fine at 5,25.
Imagine having Danault now, Gally would score 20 and +, and Hoffman would have similar numbers as Tatar did.
That would be a good second line total. Not enough for a first line but enough for a more than decent second line.
Danault is the difference maker for the Kings. They didn't make the PO 3 years in a row and they'll be in the party this year. Watch them, Danault can shut down a big line, Kings can cause a surprise in the first round.

ps : and go check what some of our Habs fan members wrote on Danault on their forum when he was signed, lol.
 
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Harry Kakalovich said:
I never understood the Danault hate. He's a very good player. It seems now that hate has shifted to Dvorak, who is also a good player. Maybe he's not as good as Danault - to be honest it's difficult to know at this point the way the season has gone. But he seems to be in the same ballpark in terms of style of play. So maybe he's destined to be hated by a certain segment of Habs fans. Are they the same ones who later complain about them being gone? It's possible.
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I think I understood the hate of Danault. It's a mix of obscur reasons, the best example is the vitriolic post of Doc M. in the LA Kings forum thread about Danault. But there is a reason that anybody can understand : Habs had a defensive mentality with their coaches, draft systems, farm team system, etc. All this defensive minded team got in the nerves of the fans who wanted an offensive team. And I agree with that. More interresting to watch and ultimately a winning receipe to win a Cup (see Crosby, Toews, Stamkos and Kopitar). What I wrote at the time Danault was here was he is doing a decent job, his line ends the seasons with a +, it's just the other lies to improve. Or the GM have to built a decent first line and keep the Danault line as it is. After all, Gallagher and Tatar were not really first line material. This is what happened in the last play offs and Habs did have some success. But Bergevin is a stubborn guy and he didn't paid Danault his real value. What happen next, Dvorak is not doing half of the job Danault did and Gallagher is like an orphan without his center. But Danault is having the best season of his life with two new teamates (Moore and Arvidsson), he have 21 goals and is +16.

80% of habs members here were happy Danault was gone and they were sure Dvorak would do better for cheaper. But not me, hehehe. I know they all look bad (the Danault bashers), some of them are the most respected members here, they have a real influence, something I don't have. But I don't care, that's all right!
 
Catanddogguitarrr said:
Danault might be a little overpaid at 6.5 now but it's no comparaison with Gallagher, Petry or someone else. Kings will be making the PO with Danault. That difference is not worth some $$$ ?
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6.5M may be an overpayment for Danault.

But a center that's elite at what he does (shutdown opposition's top lines and chip in secondary offense) is the type of player you want to overpay for.

But losing what Danault brought was a piece to our downfall and got us new management and the rebuild we needed. So though losing him for nothing while giving up a 1st and a 2nd for Dvorak was bad in and of itself, at least it was a bad move that led to MB's demise and the continued mediocrity.
 
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26Mats said:
6.5M may be an overpayment for Danault.

But a center that's elite at what he does (shutdown opposition's top lines and chip in secondary offense) is the type of player you want to overpay for.

But losing what Danault brought was a piece to our downfall and got us new management and the rebuild we needed. So though losing him for nothing while giving up a 1st and a 2nd for Dvorak was bad in and of itself, at least it was a bad move that let to MB's demise and the continued mediocrity.
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Really? Can't you do do better than that? So you say that bad move was something good at the end because it is one of the reasons for MB to be fired?
So this is the new mantra, losing Danault was good because MB got fired.
Ok now but what happen next? The new genious GM will solve the problem of Dvorak by snapping his fingers? He will solve this problem so fast, nobody will see anything, lol.
 
Harry Kakalovich said:
I never understood the Danault hate. He's a very good player. It seems now that hate has shifted to Dvorak, who is also a good player. Maybe he's not as good as Danault - to be honest it's difficult to know at this point the way the season has gone. But he seems to be in the same ballpark in terms of style of play. So maybe he's destined to be hated by a certain segment of Habs fans. Are they the same ones who later complain about them being gone? It's possible.
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The Danault hate was unjustified, but I think what it came down to was that Danault was the epitome of he habs conservatism.

You typically have top centers out there who control the game by being dangerous offensively. Our top center controlled the game by preventing the opposition rather than taking an offensive charge.

He's a good player but I think most of the fanbase wanted a fresh mindset from management where the habs are attack oriented, so Danault was an easy whipping boy for those that focus solely on goals and assists.

As for the Dvorak comparison, I don't think he shares alot in common with Danault. Danault is a much better skater with a better motor that he utilizes to be a premier checker, while Dvorak is more capable of making plays around the opposing net.

I don't prefer Dvorak out on the ice if we are up by one goal except for his faceoff ability, but I don't prefer Danault out there either if the habs are down by a goal late in the game.... So they are different players.
 
Danault in playoffs was all about shutdown. Fanbase wanted more well-rounded player, after all there was years of evidence that he wasn't much of an offensive dynamo with quality wingers (not just Tatar and ghost of a Gallagher). Good to see he has career year in a role that fits him better.

He was going to be expensive and Canadiens had already extended too many players from a core that was mostly very disappointing. Someone had to go. Also, this was supposed to be Suzuki's and KK's team while Danault in 3C was luxury. Back then no one knew Bergevin would be fleeced because of his lousy undervalued offet sheet to Aho.

This was supposed to be the year when youngsters were off the leash, for good or for worse. As always, Bergevin's incapability to handle contract extension talks in time burned us. Canadiens was never supposed to be in a situation where a god damn bottom six level player on a bloated contract from the biggest shithouse in the league history is our 2C.
 
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1. Letting Danault walk was fine. I probably would have traded him at the deadline instead but we'd have missed on our miracle run so it is what it is.

2. If we signed Danault, we'd just be more mediocre than we are now. Danault is a valuable player but his value isn't with this team on its current direction that's been needed for 20 years.

3. KK's offer-sheet should have either been matched or walked away from with no subsequent trade for Dvorak. Find a stop-gap center anywhere else and deal with it. But we know this is the type of thing that happens when you have a lame duck GM involved.

4. Hopefully Dvorak gets his value back to be flipped because I don't think he fits with MSL & HuGo.
 
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Pretty much all the moves Bergevin made in his last offseason stunk. I can’t think of a move since the cup run that didn’t hurt the team.

Overpaying for third and fourth line depth was a bad idea, and then he reversed by going cheap on Danault.
 
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