Rumor: Chris Johnston: Some believe Toronto is the front runner for Ben Chiarot.

[The90]

And regardless if you want to call it an excuse or a reason Korpisalo and Elvis did the same thing the year before, the Leafs failings in the playoffs aren’t because they weren’t “tough enough” on the back end, it’s because their high end scoring went dry and their goalies killed them by letting in bsck breaking softies at inopportune moments.

Yup. ‘Sometimes she goes and sometimes she doesn’t go’ - Kyle Dubas - Ray

 

[The90]

Leafs fans may not want to accept it, but in the playoffs Chiarot would be their #4D, behind Reilly, Muzzin, and Brodie. He would get way more ice time than Sandin, Holl, Dermott, Liljegren, etc.

I remember in a documentary the Leafs released after the playoffs, it showed one of the coaches talking to the players in the locker room, talking down on Montreal saying "they only play 4 defenseman". Well we all know how that turned out. Montreal rode 4 d-men (Weber, Edmundson, Petry, Chiarot) all the way to the finals. Romanov, Kulak, and Gustafsson were stapled to the bench after the 2nd period.

At the end of the day I don't see Toronto paying the price for Chiarot, but I have a feeling they trade a mid/late pick for Kulak to play 6th D once they miss out on any big fish.

Montreal rode Carey Price to the finals. Once he cooled off, shockingly enough, so did the Habs.

 

[The90]

Offense does dry up in the playoffs and the Leafs PP needs to be better cause 5/5 is very tough but the PP is where you can take advantage of the offensive power the Leafs have.

Consistent goaltending is a factor... I agree there.

But better toughness and grit surrounding your offensive players is of value. I would not overlook that if you want to go on a deep run. Teams that reach the final 4 year to year have little to no flaws. Goaltending, Defense, Offense, Grit/toughness, depth. They are all important

The bolded is just beyond made up. How good does a powerplay need to be when first place at 30% needs to be better.

Also, the Habs just proved a very flawed roster can make the cup finals. So the second paragraph is…

 

[Nylanderthal]

Offense does dry up in the playoffs and the Leafs PP needs to be better cause 5/5 is very tough but the PP is where you can take advantage of the offensive power the Leafs have.

Consistent goaltending is a factor... I agree there.

But better toughness and grit surrounding your offensive players is of value. I would not overlook that if you want to go on a deep run. Teams that reach the final 4 year to year have little to no flaws. Goaltending, Defense, Offense, Grit/toughness, depth. They are all important

They’ve done that guys like jumbo foligno Simmonds Clifford muzzin now lyubushkin. I’m not saying it’s not important I just don’t think it’s been overlooked by management like some people around here imply.
At the end of the day in both recent failings they didn’t get the saves the other team did.
I agree about the PP and we’re seeing a very different and better version of it this year, last year heading into the playoffs they were on a historically bad run

 

[Nylanderthal]

The bolded is just beyond made up. How good does a powerplay need to be when first place at 30% needs to be better.

Also, the Habs just proved a very flawed roster can make the cup finals. So the second paragraph is…

Last playoffs it sucked in fact it was historically bad down the stretch and was a major concern.

 

[Habs Halifax]

They’ve done that guys like jumbo foligno Simmonds Clifford muzzin now lyubushkin. I’m not saying it’s not important I just don’t think it’s been overlooked by management like some people around here imply.
At the end of the day in both recent failings they didn’t get the saves the other team did.
I agree about the PP and we’re seeing a very different and better version of it this year, last year heading into the playoffs they were on a historically bad run

My advice? When you go after toughness/size, make sure they can skate.

I think your forward group is totally fine. I think you need consistent performance with your goalie and added toughness to make things more difficult for other forwards in your own end. Puck possession/skating/offense is important but when I look at how the Habs lost to the Lightning, they killed us with better team D and depth. Tampa's PP was insane last year up until the Habs and Point was on a tear up until the Habs. Tampa beat us with a 3rd line and a better D group with Vasi. They beat the Habs at our own game... Depth, Team D, and Goaltending.

If the Leafs want a deep run, address all the little holes as much as possible.

 

[Nylanderthal]

My advice? When you go after toughness/size, make sure they can skate.

Won’t argue that, jumbo was useless and foligno damaged goods. Muzzin has been well worth it up until his precipitous fall to borderline useless this season. Russian bear moves around the ice just fine though and Simmonds while “slow” has a purpose out there

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Montreal rode Carey Price to the finals. Once he cooled off, shockingly enough, so did the Habs.

This narrative is so weak.

The soft forwards on the Leafs were totally overpowered by Montreal's physical defense. They got zero work done on the forecheck. I think Marner had more delay of game penalties for throwing the puck over the glass under pressure than he had shots on net

 

[Habs Halifax]

Won’t argue that, jumbo was useless and foligno damaged goods. Muzzin has been well worth it up until his precipitous fall to borderline useless this season. Russian bear moves around the ice just fine though and Simmonds while “slow” has a purpose out there

This is why I value guys like Chiarot and Anderson a lot. Those warriors can skate. Not sure who gets Chiarot but his new team is going to like the toughness/skating he provides. He just bruises you along the walls and in front of the net and it's hard to escape him cause he skates very well for a big man. It's the reason why there is so much talk surrounding him IMO.

Personally, I'm a big Muzzin fan. Skating might not be top notch but he knows what he is doing out there. I'd steer clear of targeting his game cause if you had a few others who can play physical like him, the results change. I'm a fan of Muzzin. Some Habs forwards said they had extra confidence heading into game 7 when Muzzin was not going to play

 

[Habs Halifax]

This narrative is so weak.

The soft forwards on the Leafs were totally overpowered by Montreal's physical defense. They got zero work done on the forecheck. I think Marner had more delay of game penalties for throwing the puck over the glass under pressure than he had shots on net

Less time and space and refs allowing players to play more physical is definitely a change of game in the playoffs. Forces skilled players to make decisions with the puck they may not make in the regular season. 5/5 is very tough and usually depth players stand out where you need balanced scoring.

Leafs have to perform on the PP. That's where they can make you pay with their offensive power. They need consistent goaltending too. Added toughness on the back end is something I see Dubas looking into but if you add size/toughness, make sure they can skate.

That's my advice to the Leafs. Good luck and I do hope you go on a run

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Leaf Fans… would you trade an unprotected 2023 first for Chariot? Let’s you parlay that 2022 first in another move. Could also take back some salary if that helps.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Leaf Fans… would you trade an unprotected 2023 first for Chariot? Let’s you parlay that 2022 first in another move. Could also take back some salary if that helps.

I think Dubas will be hung in the streets of Toronto if he trades a 1st for Chiarot. Just look at the comments from their fan base on these threads. .

I think Dubas might trade the 1st but probably for someone else to avoid the backlash

 

[Nylanderthal]

This is why I value guys like Chiarot and Anderson a lot. Those warriors can skate. Not sure who gets Chiarot but his new team is going to like the toughness/skating he provides. He just bruises you along the walls and in front of the net and it's hard to escape him cause he skates very well for a big man. It's the reason why there is so much talk surrounding him IMO.

I’d love Anderson, but I don’t know that it can work without really shaking up the teams cap structure and I don’t see why Montreal would move off of Josh unless it’s a complete scorched earth scenario

 

[Just a Fan]

Leaf Fans… would you trade an unprotected 2023 first for Chariot? Let’s you parlay that 2022 first in another move. Could also take back some salary if that helps.

Easy pass on a 1st for Chiarot….period.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’d love Anderson, but I don’t know that it can work without really shaking up the teams cap structure and I don’t see why Montreal would move off of Josh unless it’s a complete scorched earth scenario

Habs won't trade Anderson. Both Hughes and MSL have spoken to that recently. Chiarot will be moved and Petry maybe as well but more likely this summer.

Personally, I think Petry would fit well with Muzzin but not sure we can figure out a trade where we both like it. Habs might be willing to retain and take back a contract dump but we are looking for value you probably don't like.

Rielly / Brodie
Muzzin / Petry

I think that fits. But the trade talk won't go well and not sure of your cap difficulty next season. I don't see a need for Chiarot cause you need a RD IMO. Chiarot has played a little RD but not much. Forget about what the return would be for a second... Would Muzzin play RD with Chiarot? That would be a very scary shutdown pairing IMO if one of them was fine with RD.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Easy pass on a 1st for Chiarot….period.

Foligno netted a 1st and 4th remember. Chariot brings all of that but is a top 4 Dman. If you want him it’ll cost that. All depends if you guys are committed to winning or not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Easy pass on a 1st for Chiarot….period.

I'm curious. What are your pairings if you trade for Chiarot? Lets set aside what the return would be. Would you play Chiarot with Muzzin or bottom paring? How comfortable is Muzzin playing RD?

If one of Chiarot or Muzzin can play RD, that's a very scary shutdown pairing IMO. So yeah, lets set aside what the return is. Preset what your pairings would be if you were to trade for Chiarot? I'm curious to see what you think and what other Leafs fans would think (the respectful ones anyways)

Rielly / Brodie
Chiarot / Muzzin
Sandin / Lyubushkin
Holl

 

[Habs Halifax]

Foligno netted a 1st and 4th remember. Chariot brings all of that but is a top 4 Dman. If you want him it’ll cost that. All depends if you guys are committed to winning or not.

Foligno was the gritty type but his skating sucked. Chiarot is a monster but his skating is very underrated. I think many are overlooking that area of his game and it's one thing to be physical but you got to have the skating to go along with it IMO

 

[The90]

This narrative is so weak.

The soft forwards on the Leafs were totally overpowered by Montreal's physical defense. They got zero work done on the forecheck. I think Marner had more delay of game penalties for throwing the puck over the glass under pressure than he had shots on net

Montreal Canadiens vs Toronto Maple Leafs, 20202021 Playoffs

Yeah totally overpowered lol

 

[Benstheman]

Foligno was the gritty type but his skating sucked. Chiarot is a monster but his skating is very underrated. I think many are overlooking that area of his game and it's one thing to be physical but you got to have the skating to go along with it IMO

My take on Chiarot is he is average offensively and defensively. But he is indeed surprisingly fast and more importantly, a physical monster, at a point where he makes his teammates better. Another important thing is he can log a ton of minutes without losing effectiveness. I consider him a solide no.4 on a good team.

 

[Just a Fan]

I'm curious. What are your pairings if you trade for Chiarot? Lets set aside what the return would be. Would you play Chiarot with Muzzin or bottom paring? How comfortable is Muzzin playing RD?

If one of Chiarot or Muzzin can play RD, that's a very scary shutdown pairing IMO. So yeah, lets set aside what the return is. Preset what your pairings would be if you were to trade for Chiarot? I'm curious to see what you think and what other Leafs fans would think (the respectful ones anyways)

Rielly / Brodie
Chiarot / Muzzin
Sandin / Lyubushkin
Holl

The day Muzzin arrived here he stated he is not comfortable playing on the right.

 

[Just a Fan]

Foligno netted a 1st and 4th remember. Chariot brings all of that but is a top 4 Dman. If you want him it’ll cost that. All depends if you guys are committed to winning or not.

The Foligno trade was horrible before the ink was dry on the paperwork. Using that as a comparable is accurate though…because moving a 1st for Chiarot would also be horrible in my opinion.

 

[CAUFIELD]

Yeah, that is a steep price. I expect something like a 2019-2021 drafted kid and a 2nd rounder. Maybe a sweetener since the 2nd will be so deep. Or I'd make it a 2024 2nd to make up for the one Montreal lost in the Dvorak deal.

If him Hughes, I definitely start the negociation by asking for a 1st+2nd. Leafs are a bit desperate for D and in the same division. No reason to sell low.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

It’s not anything to do with who he plays for at all. He literally showed you stats from Winnipeg as well to show his impact isn’t good. For the record I could care less which team the leafs trade with so long as they improve the team. I just don’t think Chiarot is an improvement on almost any leaf defensemen at the moment, even if he gives some fans the warm fuzzies over how much he cross checks.

The reports all said that the ASK is a first rounder. Nobody said he 100% is getting a first rounder. If someone pony’s up a first rounder he’s gone in an instant. Nobody has been desperate enough to do that though so he remains in Montreal.

He’s a pretty bad player imo. Montreal didn’t do him any favours though. He’s been trying to punch above his weight since being traded here and failing spectacularly at it imo.
I don’t know why any team would want a guy who spends 60% of his shift running around his own end. I don’t care how tough he is or what intangibles you think he has, it should show up somewhere in the ice and it hasn’t. If we get a first we don’t blink an eye.

The one thing I will say is that he’s not Karl Alzner bad, but that’s not saying much.

 

[The90]

He’s a pretty bad player imo. Montreal didn’t do him any favours though. He’s been trying to punch above his weight since being traded here and failing spectacularly at it imo.
I don’t know why any team would want a guy who spends 60% of his shift running around his own end. I don’t care how tough he is or what intangibles you think he has, it should show up somewhere in the ice and it hasn’t. If we get a first we don’t blink an eye.

The one thing I will say is that he’s not Karl Alzner bad, but that’s not saying much.

I hear ya. He’s an a hole to play against. That’s about it. There is definitely value in that, but not enough value to draw a first.