Rumor: Chris Johnston: Some believe Toronto is the front runner for Ben Chiarot.

[BehindTheTimes]

My take on Chiarot is he is average offensively and defensively. But he is indeed surprisingly fast and more importantly, a physical monster, at a point where he makes his teammates better. Another important thing is he can log a ton of minutes without losing effectiveness. I consider him a solide no.4 on a good team.

By just about every measurable statistic this isn’t true. In fact, he usually makes his partner worse.

 

[Brixton]

By just about every measurable statistic this isn’t true. In fact, he usually makes his partner worse.

Shhhh don’t tell anyone, that is not respectful and someone here will ignore you for telling the truth.

 

[pth2]

If him Hughes, I definitely start the negociation by asking for a 1st+2nd. Leafs are a bit desperate for D and in the same division. No reason to sell low.

Well, asking too much also just means people will call elsewhere and find someone reasonable to deal with. Also, putting an "ask" here as if we were negotiating is kind of childish - we can just talk like adults about what reasonable trade value is likely to be. And it's less than a 1st and a 2nd.

 

[Lahey]

My Price for Chariot traded to
Leafs (50%retained ) is: this year 1st (top-10 protected) +2023 2nd .

ahahahahahahhaha

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Last 3 GP Chiarot is +5, 2 assists and averaging 24 mins for TOI

Value going up

 

[Habs Halifax]

My take on Chiarot is he is average offensively and defensively. But he is indeed surprisingly fast and more importantly, a physical monster, at a point where he makes his teammates better. Another important thing is he can log a ton of minutes without losing effectiveness. I consider him a solide no.4 on a good team.

Exactly how I see it too. A good #4 that brings it in the playoffs. Warrior type and teammates like playing with him vs against him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The day Muzzin arrived here he stated he is not comfortable playing on the right.

Chiarot has played a little RD but not much. Might be more comfortable than Muzzin but not by a wide margin. For this reason, I don't think Chiarot is a perfect fit for the Leafs. Unless the plan is to play him on the bottom pairing but then what? Move Sandin to the RD side?

The only fit I see is a physical/skater #4 guy but he's a Left shot.

 

[Just a Fan]

Chiarot has played a little RD but not much. Might be more comfortable than Muzzin but not by a wide margin. For this reason, I don't think Chiarot is a perfect fit for the Leafs. Unless the plan is to play him on the bottom pairing but then what? Move Sandin to the RD side?

The only fit I see is a physical/skater #4 guy but he's a Left shot.

Another reason why Chiarot isn’t near the top of my want list….

 

[Habs Halifax]

Another reason why Chiarot isn’t near the top of my want list….

That part to me stands out. Totally fair. I always try to put myself in the other shoe and I don't see a perfect fit. I think Petry is a better fit with Muzzin but there are concerns with his Age/AAV/Term. Habs can address the AAV to some degree (get it down to $5M ish) but we probably can't come to agreement on a trade that both sides are happy.

And then there is the challenge of the Leafs cap next year when Rielly's new contract kicks in. Dubas has to move Mrazek somehow and might have to also move Kerfoot. Right now, it's 14 players signed with $8.7M of cap space with Campbell to sign. Campbell's next contract is difficult to guess IMO but it's north of $2M and south of $4M. Something around there.

I hear rumors of the Leafs adding a player with term but I wonder how that cap looks next year. Flat covid cap is the worse thing to happen to teams like the Leafs and Oilers.

 

[Just a Fan]

That part to me stands out. Totally fair. I always try to put myself in the other shoe and I don't see a perfect fit. I think Petry is a better fit with Muzzin but there are concerns with his Age/AAV/Term. Habs can address the AAV to some degree (get it down to $5M ish) but we probably can't come to agreement on a trade that both sides are happy.

And then there is the challenge of the Leafs cap next year when Rielly's new contract kicks in. Dubas has to move Mrazek somehow and might have to also move Kerfoot. Right now, it's 14 players signed with $8.7M of cap space with Campbell to sign. Campbell's next contract is difficult to guess IMO but it's north of $2M and south of $4M. Something around there.

I hear rumors of the Leafs adding a player with term but I wonder how that cap looks next year. Flat covid cap is the worse thing to happen to teams like the Leafs and Oilers.

One can assume one or both of Holl/Dermott will be gone…as well as Kerfoot. Don’t know how that balances with what we acquire.

No interest in Petry….

 

[Habs Halifax]

One can assume one or both of Holl/Dermott will be gone…as well as Kerfoot. Don’t know how that balances with what we acquire.

No interest in Petry….

It's the higher caps like Mrazek and Kerfoot that frees up flexibility. Mrazek will be tough to move but Kerfoot won't be. Decent middle 6F but that cap hit should be flipped for a bigger 3C who is better on faceoffs and intangibles. Basically flip Kerfoot's offensive assets for a reliable 3C. That's what I would do anyways.... in terms of cap space.

If you can move both Mrazek and Kerfoot, 12 players signed with $16M in cap space. Much better flexibility to tinker with improvements... as well as signing Campbell and another goalie to pair with him.

I suspect that if Dubas trades your 1st, he's trying to get a different goalie (cheaper) and a rental. He's going to leverage his 1st in an attempt to unload Mrazek. Horrible signing and 2 more years at $3.8M. Very curious to see how Dubas escapes this one.

Figured you would say you don't want Petry but he's the type you need with Muzzin IMO. Klingberg as well but he will cost you more for his next contract. Chychrun? Another LD that will cost even more to acquire.

 

[The90]

Another reason why Chiarot isn’t near the top of my want list….

Mine is mostly because he’s not good, is definitely not worth a first round pick and has had a negative impact on all of his defence partners dating back to his days in Winnipeg. But he cross checks a bunch!!!

 

[Just a Fan]

Mine is mostly because he’s not good, is definitely not worth a first round pick and has had a negative impact on all of his defence partners dating back to his days in Winnipeg. But he cross checks a bunch!!!

I won’t say he’s “not good”, but I agree for the Leafs, he’s not worth a 1st. A team like Tampa? Maybe…but Toronto has to many issues to be dealing a 1st for Chiarot thinking he’s the final piece.

 

[The90]

I won’t say he’s “not good”, but I agree for the Leafs, he’s not worth a 1st. A team like Tampa? Maybe…but Toronto has to many issues to be dealing a 1st for Chiarot thinking he’s the final piece.

If Toronto is dealing a first I’d much rather them take a full run at a top line or pairing guy with term. Chychrun maybe. I’d prefer not to get another forward.

 

[Habs Halifax]

By just about every measurable statistic this isn’t true. In fact, he usually makes his partner worse.

Do you think the GM's who are interested in Chiarot are ignorant to whatever stat you are trying to cherry pick? Like they are are overlooking it and you are not? I find that hard to believe.

Coaches and GM's are blind to this.... "Just about every measurable statistic" . Just about eh?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Shhhh don’t tell anyone, that is not respectful and someone here will ignore you for telling the truth.

It's not the truth. It's some form of witch hunt that can be applied to other players to make them look worse. I've seen this many times before. Like seriously, The 5-10 GM's that are very interested him are completely ignorant to what you think you have found? Really?

Chiarot makes his partner worse? It goes unnoticed by NHL coaches and GM's? Usage, ice time, D zone starts has nothing to do with it right?

This 1st rounder narrative has people confused and as a result, they are on attack mode towards Chiarot. Foolish!

 

[Scintillating10]

Petry probably better fit for Leafs than Chiarot. He's locked up long term and right shot. Trade value about the same

 

[Benstheman]

If Toronto is dealing a first I’d much rather them take a full run at a top line or pairing guy with term. Chychrun maybe. I’d prefer not to get another forward.

And what other big pieces will you give on top of that late 1st??

 

[The90]

It's not the truth. It's some form of witch hunt that can be applied to other players to make them look worse. I've seen this many times before.

Let’s look into some stats since you seem to be cherry picking the stats and the years you are trying to represent.

Chiarots Corsi over the last 5 years
2017-18. 45.8. Most common partner Buff
2018-2019 43.8. Most common partner Buff
2019-20 49.1. Most common partner Weber
2020-21. 46.7. Most common partner Weber
2021-22. 42.0. Most common Petry and Savard (pretty well equal time)

(it’s interesting when you quoted last 2 years you didn’t include the current year but only the other ones were he played with Weber)

so his numbers dropped 7 points this year, but most Habs fans would throw out the excuse that it is cause we are shitty this year. We lost Price, Weber, Danault and KK. (Well maybe they wouldn’t say KK cause he went from untouchable to a bust in a matter of a week), but let’s look at some other numbers that tell exactly the impact of Chiarot. Let’s look at how his partners numbers are because they had to play with Chiarot to protect him.

Buff 2017-18 while playing with…
Enstrom - 60.2
Morrisey - 55.9
Chiarot - 46.2

Chiarot 2018-19 while playing with…
Buff - 53.6
Myers - 46.6
Niku - 40.7

(Myers and Nikus numbers were higher with any other partner…geez I wonder why Buff would walk away from big bucks after being saddled to protect a 1.1 million dollar Chiarot all year and not get to play with good players like Morrisey, or Trouba, or even Myers or kulikov)

I know you are thinking…hey that likely was a coincidence. Let’s look at chiarots time with the Habs when he had to be babysat by Weber.

2019-20 Weber playing with….

mete - 56.4
Chiarot - 55.2
(Does that mean mete who was given away for free is better than Chiarot…let’s look closer)

that year Chiarot played with…
Weber - 55.2 as mentioned
Petry - 53.4 (was Petry good enough to shelter Chiarot too?). Let’s look at his number…

Petry with….
Kulak - 61.5
Scandella - 56.4
Chiarot - 53.4
(Wow that makes Kulak and scandella look better than Chiarot…but didn’t Hab fans say scandella is crap?)

2020-21
Weber with Chiarot - 52.8
Chiarot without Weber - 46.2

Chiarot had the worst numbers of any dman in Mtl.

so let’s look at this year. Chiarot - 42.0.
No Weber or buff…the numbers really drop. But, but, but…our team sucks, we lost Price. No you lost chiarots baby sitter.

Chiarot wit….
Petry - 47.5
Romanov - 41.2
Savard - 38.8

But but Savard sucks you Habs fans say…

Savard with…
Romanov - 46.3
Kulak - 42.4
Chiarot - 39.8

are we seeing a pattern here? Maybe Petry called up Buff and Weber and asked how life is without An anker strapped to him. He obviously couldn’t use the injury excuse like Weber or just say screw this like Buff. Maybe he could tell his wife to make up a story about not liking Canada, and that would get him away…. Hmm just an idea.

Chiarot brings everyone he is paired with down….but what playoff bound team doesn’t want some that does that?

the answer is no GM in there right mind would add Chiarot at any cost. Anyone that would give up a 1st should be fired on the spot and banned to peewee hockey.

)

Here’s a non cherry picked rebuke of what you’re trying to sell. Years worth of data dating back to Winnipeg showing that he’s a boat anchor dragging down whatever d man gets the honour of propping him up.

Feel free to post anything that shows any different.

 

[mydnyte]

Last 3 GP Chiarot is +5, 2 assists and averaging 24 mins for TOI

Value going up

a players value is based on historical reputation, meaning the last few seasons, not a few good/bad games.

/edited to add good/bad as its true either way

 

[Habs Halifax]

Petry probably better fit for Leafs than Chiarot. He's locked up long term and right shot. Trade value about the same

I also agree but I doubt we can come to terms on a trade even if the Habs retain down to $5M and take a cap dump back.

 

[The90]

And what other big pieces will you give on top of that late 1st??

I’m not naive enough to pretend it’s not going to cost big. You’ll need a top prospect or 2 anyways. I hate the idea of gutting the system as well, but if you’re going to do it, a young top pairing D man in his prime on a great contract (4.6 AAV), would be what would make some sense. What doesn’t make sense is tossing a first into the abyss every year for a half loaded cup run a la Foligno.

 

[mydnyte]

Chiarot has played a little RD but not much. Might be more comfortable than Muzzin but not by a wide margin. For this reason, I don't think Chiarot is a perfect fit for the Leafs. Unless the plan is to play him on the bottom pairing but then what? Move Sandin to the RD side?

The only fit I see is a physical/skater #4 guy but he's a Left shot.

seriously though, the only way the Leafs can reasonably 'fit' him into the lineup both financially, and without losing puck moving ability is to get Muzzin to waive and trade him for Chiarot.

 

[Habs Halifax]

seriously though, the only way the Leafs can reasonably 'fit' him into the lineup both financially, and without losing puck moving ability is to get Muzzin to waive and trade him for Chiarot.

Habs will retain down to 50% so it's going to be a prorated $1.75M. I doubt the Leafs move Muzzin to replace him for Chiarot. Leafs need a Chiarot but a right handed shot. Don't see a fit other than Chiarot being the physical/mobile type.

I just wish people would chill. Way too much focus on the 1st and devalue attempts. The interest in Chiarot is warranted but what he returns is a guess.

 

[Just a Fan]

If Toronto is dealing a first I’d much rather them take a full run at a top line or pairing guy with term. Chychrun maybe. I’d prefer not to get another forward.

On this we agree….only way I shop for a forward is after our D is addressed