Choose the next HC

[Lord Flashheart]

McKenzie on ANA's coaching situation starting at 13:20-16:00

Pretty much rules out Sutter. Travis Green should be cheap.

 

[Duck Off]

McKenzie on ANA's coaching situation starting at 13:20-16:00

can anyone summarize for us please?

 

[Static]

can anyone summarize for us please?

Just talked about budget teams and what they can pay for coaches. Said for instance Anaheim was only paying BB 1.5 a year.

Then he said connecting the theoretical dots would sutter go to Anaheim? But, would Anaheim open the wallet to get him, because he will demand Q and Babcock money.

 

[Opak]

Just talked about budget teams and what they can pay for coaches. Said for instance Anaheim was only paying BB 1.5 a year.

Then he said connecting the theoretical dots would sutter go to Anaheim? But, would Anaheim open the wallet to get him, because he will demand Q and Babcock money.

So he knows nothing (about the Ducks) and was talking out of his *** again? What a surprise...

 

[LuckyDucky]

Just talked about budget teams and what they can pay for coaches. Said for instance Anaheim was only paying BB 1.5 a year.

Then he said connecting the theoretical dots would sutter go to Anaheim? But, would Anaheim open the wallet to get him, because he will demand Q and Babcock money.

Also said that Sutter would get Quenneville/Babcock money, and that he deserves it. They mentioned Green briefly as a possible option but didn't talk about him for more than a sentence or two.

Edit: oops, my reading skills have gone down the tubes this morning. You were on it, Static.

 

[LuckyDucky]

The more I think about the coaching options, the more I'm leaning towards someone who is green (no pun intended) to the NHL. Travis Green would fit the bill; I just hope that he is a good systems coach, which is what I've read about with him.

 

[Paul4587]

So he knows nothing (about the Ducks) and was talking out of his *** again? What a surprise...

How exactly is he talking out his ass there?

 

[anezthes]

McKenzie on ANA's coaching situation starting at 13:20-16:00

Thanks!

 

[Ducks DVM]

How many rookie head coaches have ever won a Cup in their first two years in the league?

How many of those didn't have a generational player on their team?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

this team will not win a cup any time soon so it doesn't really matter, nothing will change until fundamental changes are made to the roster

 

[Lord Flashheart]

this team will not win a cup any time soon so it doesn't really matter, nothing will change until fundamental changes are made to the roster

What is/was needed, actually, is willingness to spend to and over the cap (over cap in a sense that if buyout is needed it's a no-brainer). This on the budget nonsense will never net a cup winner by design as too many compromises are needed before the season even starts.

I do agree that there is no cup in sight though and that cup windows has closed, but for different reasons.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

How many rookie head coaches have ever won a Cup in their first two years in the league?

How many of those didn't have a generational player on their team?

Lemaire only had a one season stint before winning in his second year in NJ, Crawford did it in Colorado, Hartley and Torts did it during their third full season. Going further back Terry Crisp, Jean Perron and Tom Johnson did it, as Fred Shero did it in year 4.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Sign Green, trade Fowler, sign lindholm forever, sign vatanen, trade a goalie call it a day.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Lemaire only had a one season stint before winning in his second year in NJ, Crawford did it in Colorado, Hartley and Torts did it during their third full season. Going further back Terry Crisp, Jean Perron and Tom Johnson did it, as Fred Shero did it in year 4.

Thanks for doing the work. I used two years because I think that's the reasonable window with Getzlaf/Perry/Kesler and I don't see a shining white knight in our prospect pool.

Looking at what those teams had to work with vs our roster it's looking a bit grim.

 

[Sojourn]

Sign Green, trade Fowler, sign lindholm forever, sign vatanen, trade a goalie call it a day.

So you're going to rely on Bieksa and Despres, huh?

 

[Markus078]

How many rookie head coaches have ever won a Cup in their first two years in the league?

Randy Carlyle?

 

[Markus078]

this team will not win a cup any time soon so it doesn't really matter, nothing will change until fundamental changes are made to the roster

Isn't Nashville in a similar situation?

 

[Ducks DVM]

Randy Carlyle?

You omitted the second question.

 

[Sojourn]

You omitted the second question.

I suppose you could argue that the 2007 team didn't have a generational talent, but I also think that may just be pedantic. They had two HHOF defensemen, both of whom put up Norris-worthy seasons. One of the premiere goal scorers of his generation. The best shutdown line in the league, and the guy who should have won the Selke in Pahlsson. And enough depth and talent to make any team(save maybe Detroit) jealous.

Edit: Oh yeah, and arguably the best goaltending duo in the league. Can't forget that.

Perhaps they lacked a true generational talent, but that roster was so loaded that they might as well have had one.

That was a team without any real weakness. Save, perhaps, discipline. On the other hand, you probably need to be able to exploit the weakness for it to be a genuine weakness. The only team that actually came close was, again, Detroit. Anaheim was, by far, the superior team at even strength. Detroit made up a lot of the difference with special teams.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I suppose you could argue that the 2007 team didn't have a generational talent, but I also think that may just be pedantic. They had two HHOF defensemen, both of whom put up Norris-worthy seasons. One of the premiere goal scorers of his generation. The best shutdown line in the league, and the guy who should have won the Selke in Pahlsson. And enough depth and talent to make any team(save maybe Detroit) jealous.

Perhaps they lacked a true generational talent, but that roster was so loaded that they might as well have had one.

I'd argue that Pronger should be included in that group. Winning the Hart, and being one of the few players in his generation capable of being the key part in dragging multiple teams to the Finals can't be overstated enough.

Regardless, my point is that our roster is nowhere near the quality of the rosters that the rookie coaches had success with. AINEC. People getting excited for Green are basically getting excited for more failure, if history is any guide.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

So you're going to rely on Bieksa and Despres, huh?

Bieksa isn't going anywhere next year. People need to accept that. As for Despres, depending upon the return I'd be fine with moving him. But let's face it, Cam and Sami are our most valuable D trading chips. We're barely hanging on as contenders with our big 3. If we are going to have any chance at all next year, we need to bring in someone who can solidly contribute. Only Sami or Cam can return that. If it means Bieksa and Despres being here, then so be it. It's the cards we're dealt. Besides, we'll have a better coach to get more out of everybody, right?

 

[Sojourn]

I'd argue that Pronger should be included in that group. Winning the Hart, and being one of the few players in his generation capable of being the key part in dragging multiple teams to the Finals can't be overstated enough.

Regardless, my point is that our roster is nowhere near the quality of the rosters that the rookie coaches had success with. AINEC. People getting excited for Green are basically getting excited for more failure, if history is any guide.

That's fair. I probably wouldn't include him myself, but we all have our own definitions of what "generational" means. The only defenseman that I'd consider being that, in that time frame, is Lidstrom. Before him, it was Bourque. Pronger had a generational-esque peak, again in my opinion, but I don't think he sustained that level of play for long enough. Ditto for Niedermayer, who also had a terrific prime, but just didn't sustain it.

Still, it's nitpicking. You're absolutely right. Our roster doesn't come close to that. Even without arguing about the definition of generational. Realistically, I think you'd need to hope for lightning in a bottle if you're hoping Green can come in and lead the team to the promised land. That's not a wager I'd make. I'm not against Green, and I'd even be okay with his signing, but my opinion is that signing him ends our current Cup window. Which doesn't have to be a bad thing, if the homework done on Green suggests that he could be a long-term gain for the team.

If the idea is to win the Cup in the next year or two, he isn't the guy I'm shooting for. I'm just not sure that this is the philosophy Murray should be taking.

 

[Sojourn]

Bieksa isn't going anywhere next year. People need to accept that. As for Despres, depending upon the return I'd be fine with moving him. But let's face it, Cam and Sami are our most valuable D trading chips. We're barely hanging on as contenders with our big 3. If we are going to have any chance at all next year, we need to bring in someone who can solidly contribute. Only Sami or Cam can return that. If it means Bieksa and Despres being here, then so be it. It's the cards we're dealt. Besides, we'll have a better coach to get more out of everybody, right?

I'm not convinced we need to move either of them. But that also comes down to what your philosophy is heading into next season, and the following one.

Either way, moving either of them comes with a downside, because you need to replace them. Are you doing it with Despres and Bieksa? Sauced's suggestion means a top 4 of Lindholm, Manson, Vatanen, and one of them. The team was able to pull that successfully in the short term with a conservative trapping game.

 

[IDuck]

I still think if its possible, that housley would be a good option.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I'm not convinced we need to move either of them. But that also comes down to what your philosophy is heading into next season, and the following one.

Either way, moving either of them comes with a downside, because you need to replace them. Are you doing it with Despres and Bieksa? Sauced's suggestion means a top 4 of Lindholm, Manson, Vatanen, and one of them. The team was able to pull that successfully in the short term with a conservative trapping game.

I'm not saying I'm sold on that top 4. But I am saying we're out of time and if we want to think we still have a shot then we're stuck with drawing to an inside straight. Regardless of any reasons why, that's the situation we're in. You can't throw all your cards in and draw five new ones when you're stuck paying almost $30M to your top 3 guys.