CHL working on a deal with the NCAA, any truth?

[Juniorhockeyguru]

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[Bubbles]

So, the CHL is willing to diminish itself to spite the BCHL? Hockey Canada are absolute morons.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What would a 'deal' even entail? CHL players don't move on to play in us college because of an ncaa rule. If the ncaa changes their rules about whether the CHL is a professional league or not, the CHL has not much say in that.

There's also far far less age overlap in between chl/ncaa than most people think. It's mostly one age group, 19 year olds (this year's 2004 born players).
EDIT: Just looked up some numbers. There's 27 players born in 2005 or 2006 who have recorded a point in NCAA D1 hockey this year.

 

[LeProspector]

What would a 'deal' even entail? CHL players don't move on to play in college because of an ncaa rule. If the ncaa changes their rules about whether the CHL is a professional league or not, the CHL has not much say in that.
There's also far far less age overlap in between chl/ncaa than most people think. It's mostly one age group, 19 year olds (this year's 2004 born players).

Maybe it’s something along the lines of they’re looking into a partnership where these players can use their education packages in the NCAA now, instead of just Canada?

 

[landy92mack29]

yeah I've heard this rumoured since the NIL started in college football. The only question is can a chl player leave for ncaa at any time or are they locked into the chl until they age out then go ncaa instead of cis

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

This would hurt the BCHL no?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Maybe it’s something along the lines of they’re looking into a partnership where these players can use their education packages in the NCAA now, instead of just Canada?

Yeah it might look something like that. I would guess it might start with the NCAA changing their stance on the CHL players being professionals. At that point they would be free to offer any CHL players scholarships. If the CHL says 'hold on these guys have signed contracts with us' they're going to be on extremely shaky ground legally i would think. They sign these kids to contracts when they are legally minors, that pay basically no money. In a Canadian court CHL player contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on imo. The CHL would be wise to try and make some kind of agreement if that's where things are headed.

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

Yeah it might look something like that. I would guess it might start with the NCAA changing their stance on the CHL players being professionals. At that point they would be free to offer any CHL players scholarships. If the CHL says 'hold on these guys have signed contracts with us' they're going to be on extremely shaky ground legally i would think. They sign these kids to contracts when they are legally minors, that pay basically no money. In a Canadian court CHL player contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on imo. The CHL would be wise to try and make some kind of agreement if that's where things are headed.

Would this mean NCAA bound players be more than likely CHL bound?

 

[57special]

yeah I've heard this rumoured since the NIL started in college football. The only question is can a chl player leave for ncaa at any time or are they locked into the chl until they age out then go ncaa instead of cis

I don't see why the NCAA would need the CHL's permission to allow CHL players to play in the NCAA. All that has been stopping this, as far as i am aware, is the NCAA's own eligibility rules, which made CHL player's ineligible because junior players receive payment from their teams.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I doubt it. I don't think hockey would be the first sport where they change the eligibility rules. If NCAA was about to completely change their tune, it wouldn't only be a hockey thing.

 

[mouser]

I don't see why the NCAA would need the CHL's permission to allow CHL players to play in the NCAA. All that has been stopping this, as far as i am aware, is the NCAA's own eligibility rules, which made CHL player's ineligible because junior players receive payment from their teams.

That mirrors my thinking. If the NCAA wants to add CHL players they can tweak their amateur eligibility rules to accept them. Doesn‘t require any partnership or agreement with the CHL.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I doubt it. I don't think hockey would be the first sport where they change the eligibility rules. If NCAA was about to completely change their tune, it wouldn't only be a hockey thing.

There is really no comparison in other sports to the CHL. The NCAA can reclassify major junior players as eligibly amateurs without doing so for any other sport. The “compensation” CHL players receive can easily be reclassified as something else. The only exception would be CHLers who sign pro contracts, which of course would mean they probably have no interest in playing college hockey anyway so no big deal.

When the NCAA had a much harder time competing with the CHL for talent the rule made sense. It doesn’t really make sense anymore. Why not let your programs pick up 20+ year old veteran CHLers.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

One thing I wish that could be looked at is having a limit of CHL games/age so a kid can still be eligible to play NCAA. Some kids get excited and sign with their WHL teams at the age of 14 and screw up their eligibility for the NCAA.

Maybe something along the lines of if you have still only played a total of 5 - 10 games(exhibition and regular season combined) by the time you hit 18 years old, you can choose to become NCAA eligible or something... That's just an example of what I mean.

I have known quite a few people over the years that signed at 14/15 years old and played a few exhibition games and only a couple regular season games during training camps and then never set foot in the WHL again and played out the rest of their junior years in Junior A with no hope of playing NCAA.

I realize there is always a huge battle between CHL and NCAA for recruiting, but sometimes kids are just too young for that decision. I know parents can also chime in and force kids not to sign too but sometimes it's very tough

 

[Hockeyville USA]

The NCAA still classifying CHLers as professionals has been for another reason: keeping the NCAA as American as possible. The NCAA is approximately 63% American and 29% Canadian. The CHL is approximately 87% Canadian. If you allowed CHLers to be NCAA eligible, the NCAA would flip demographically to 40-50% American and 40% Canadian, if not more. USA Hockey wants as many kids from Minnetonka MN, Canton MI, Stoneham MA, White Plains NY, Downers Grove IL, etc to get the NCAA chance as opposed to far more kids from Mississauga, Moose Jaw, Maple Ridge, etc.

 

[FireBird71]

What would a 'deal' even entail? CHL players don't move on to play in us college because of an ncaa rule. If the ncaa changes their rules about whether the CHL is a professional league or not, the CHL has not much say in that.

There's also far far less age overlap in between chl/ncaa than most people think. It's mostly one age group, 19 year olds (this year's 2004 born players).
EDIT: Just looked up some numbers. There's 27 players born in 2005 or 2006 who have recorded a point in NCAA D1 hockey this year.

With NIL in College Sports the rule should be abolished

 

[Hockeyville USA]

With NIL in College Sports the rule should be abolished

Sure, but there's likely 2 reasons why CHLers are still NCAA ineligible:

1. They can sign pro deals while in major junior, thus the CHL is considered pro (it's really pro-am)
2. NCAA/USA Hockey wants to protect the ability of Americans to get NCAA scholarships: allowing CHLers to be NCAA eligible would make the league far more Canadian than it is now: basically all CHLers are good enough for the NCAA, not all current NCAA players are good enough for the CHL at major junior age (16-20)

 

[landy92mack29]

I don't see why the NCAA would need the CHL's permission to allow CHL players to play in the NCAA. All that has been stopping this, as far as i am aware, is the NCAA's own eligibility rules, which made CHL player's ineligible because junior players receive payment from their teams.

Because as of now the CHL contract prevents players from going to play in other leagues like the europe ones so would be interesting if it'd apply to NCAA also. During covid Bedard needed to be "loaned" so he could play in Sweden. Whether that'd change in the upcoming potential deal will be interesting. Similar to how the Euro imports are "loaned" to the chl

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Hurts the BCHL but this is probably good for Canadian players if it happens. Can play major junior then go get a world class education (not saying the U sports programs are bad schools— just a lot of US hockey is at top tier universities/colleges).

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Hurts the BCHL but this is probably good for Canadian players if it happens. Can play major junior then go get a world class education (not saying the U sports programs are bad schools— just a lot of US hockey is at top tier universities/colleges).

This would hurt the NAHL, MN-HS, New England Prep School players potentially as well. A ton of Canadians would take these "fringe" NCAA players scholarships away.

 

[57special]

Hurts the BCHL but this is probably good for Canadian players if it happens. Can play major junior then go get a world class education (not saying the U sports programs are bad schools— just a lot of US hockey is at top tier universities/colleges).

UBC, U of T, McGill, Queens, U of Waterloo are every bit as good or much better than the vast amount of American schools. The top hockey players aren't flocking to the IVY league, in any event, and most of the Ivy league hockey players that i've known are not smarter than your average Canadian U student.

There are also no athletic scholarships in the Ivy league, so Canadians will get quite the sticker shock going to Cornell or Harvard tuition wise, if they decide to go that route. Tuition + housing ends up being 80K+ USD(over 100K+ CAN) per year. Canadian schools are 1/3rd of that.

 

[hockeykid87]

Depending on how the eligibility shakes out, if players need to play a certain amount of years in the CHL before moving to the NCAA, redshirting a year before playing etc, I think this could have a devastating effect on Junior A. There are good players who go the Junior A route specifically because of the CHL rules on NCAA eligibility. Those guys would no longer have any incentive to go Junior A over the CHL.

The upper-end talent pool in Junior A could take a major hit with all of those players going to their respective CHL teams instead.

 

[rt]

So basically ditch the exceptional status rule, lower the age of entry, add a minimum League residency requirement, and end up a younger league, but necessarily a worse one?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

UBC, U of T, McGill, Queens, U of Waterloo are every bit as good or much better than the vast amount of American schools. The top hockey players aren't flocking to the IVY league, in any event, and most of the Ivy league hockey players that i've known are not smarter than your average Canadian U student.

There are also no athletic scholarships in the Ivy league, so Canadians will get quite the sticker shock going to Cornell or Harvard tuition wise, if they decide to go that route. Tuition + housing ends up being 80K+ USD(over 100K+ CAN) per year. Canadian schools are 1/3rd of that.

Like I said, I am not ripping on the U sports schools.

For a young man interested in the business world, the opportunities available to a hardworking student athlete coming out of UMichigan, BC, any of the Ivy Leagues, DIII NESCAC, RIT, Rochester and similar caliber schools are well worth any debt incurred. It would be awesome for CHL players to be afforded the choice to pursue that. Doesn’t mean it’s superior, just different. Obviously for someone less interested in that as a life path it may not be worth the cost and travel burden.

As far as cost— one of the best investments you could ever make in terms of return on cost would be to go play a sport at Harvard/Princeton/Yale fully on student loans and go to Wall Street or McKinsey. Not saying it’s about smarts- these kids have access to a completely different recruiting pipeline than someone at say, Ohio State, purely based on their school.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Depending on how the eligibility shakes out, if players need to play a certain amount of years in the CHL before moving to the NCAA, redshirting a year before playing etc, I think this could have a devastating effect on Junior A. There are good players who go the Junior A route specifically because of the CHL rules on NCAA eligibility. Those guys would no longer have any incentive to go Junior A over the CHL.

The upper-end talent pool in Junior A could take a major hit with all of those players going to their respective CHL teams instead.

On the surface, this news would really pull the rug right out from under the BCHL. Right now their whole pitch is "the junior A league for players who want to go to the NCAA". If the CHL's leagues can offer the same thing along with a higher level of competition here and now, then the elite players the BCHL is skimming will just go to the CHL. This is doubly true for players from Ontario and points east who can stay a lot closer to home and play in the OHL or the Q, and not have to deal with moving to BC and everything that entails.

Maybe all of this BCHL drama will end up being for naught.

 

[Bjindaho]

Because as of now the CHL contract prevents players from going to play in other leagues like the europe ones so would be interesting if it'd apply to NCAA also. During covid Bedard needed to be "loaned" so he could play in Sweden. Whether that'd change in the upcoming potential deal will be interesting. Similar to how the Euro imports are "loaned" to the chl

That only applies to IIHF sanctioned leagues (for example, the BCHL can poach from the CHL and vice-versa with no rules). I don't know if NCAA is under this.

On the surface, this news would really pull the rug right out from under the BCHL. Right now their whole pitch is "the junior A league for players who want to go to the NCAA". If the CHL's leagues can offer the same thing along with a higher level of competition here and now, then the elite players the BCHL is skimming will just go to the CHL. This is doubly true for players from Ontario and points east who can stay a lot closer to home and play in the OHL or the Q, and not have to deal with moving to BC and everything that entails.

Maybe all of this BCHL drama will end up being for naught.

This could open the door for some kids in the Hockey East hotbed coming north for a couple of years before returning home.