Value of: Chicago trading first overall

[Guttersniped]

Jesus. Bedard might not even be as good as Jack Hughes, who is a top 5 forward in the game at this point.

Lindros package was nowhere near this big.

Just to remind you of what the Flyers gave up.

Eric Lindros Trade Revisited - The Hockey Writers NHL Trade Analysis Latest News, Analysis & More

A detailed analysis of the Eric Lindros trade between the Flyers and Nordiques and the more than decade of impact it had on three franchises.

thehockeywriters.com

The OP has a package better than Ricci (1990 #4), Forsberg (1991 #6), Simon (1990 #25), 1993 PHI 1st, 1994 PHI 1st plus Hextall & Huffman? Really?

Also that was a pre-hard cap era trade for a player who forced a trade by refusing to play for the team that drafted him.

Do you see any potential differences with that situation and the Bedard?

If a team has zero interest in trading a player and it makes zero sense for them to trade him, and that player is about to become the most valuable prospect in the sport, it’s basically impossible to come up with a realistic trade proposal for them. Sorry trade board.

Every established high-end player, even if they’re more of a sure thing, has way less team control and is already very expensive.

No one in their right mind wants a bunch of stuff for Bedard.

 

[Putt Pirate]

I'm not a Canucks fan

Sorry….not you but OP.

Like I think everyone is crazy I see no way how Bedard will possibly be successful in Chicago. They are terrible and he will make them to good to tank but not even close enough to compete. They will be stuck with mid 1sts for years and years and will never form a complete team then he will inevitably leave for a contender. I’d much rather trade him for a huge haul to create a foundation because right now there isn’t any. You don’t add a 5 star kitchen to a house when there is no foundation laid out.

Buffalo- Kulich, Savoie, Mittlesadt, Rosen, Ostlund, Devon Levi, 13th overall and 2024 1st

Chicago- 1st overall

Now not even imo in terms of long term success Chicago would be foolish to turn that down. That gives them a foundation to build upon because right now they could possibly have the worst team ( without Bedard ) on paper in NHL history.

I just feel like long term this puts them in a FAR better position to succeed where they can tank for a few years and wait for there prospects to develop rather then be forced to surround Bedard with talent quickly.

Can someone please take the time to reply and tell me why I’m wrong because I’m obviously in the minority here and I have no clue why. That’s honesty. I’d appreciate it.

You have to be bad to get the 1st overall in case you haven't heard. And we have a good pool of prospects getting better with 2 1st each of the next 3 drafts. Oh the horror lol!

And that is a hard pass on a lot of meh players as well as the later 1sts. There is zero benefit to the Hawks and all to the Sabres.

 

[Happyhary9]

Like I think everyone is crazy I see no way how Bedard will possibly be successful in Chicago. They are terrible and he will make them to good to tank but not even close enough to compete. They will be stuck with mid 1sts for years and years and will never form a complete team then he will inevitably leave for a contender. I’d much rather trade him for a huge haul to create a foundation because right now there isn’t any. You don’t add a 5 star kitchen to a house when there is no foundation laid out.

Buffalo- Kulich, Savoie, Mittlesadt, Rosen, Ostlund, Devon Levi, 13th overall and 2024 1st

Chicago- 1st overall

Now not even imo in terms of long term success Chicago would be foolish to turn that down. That gives them a foundation to build upon because right now they could possibly have the worst team ( without Bedard ) on paper in NHL history.

I just feel like long term this puts them in a FAR better position to succeed where they can tank for a few years and wait for there prospects to develop rather then be forced to surround Bedard with talent quickly.

Can someone please take the time to reply and tell me why I’m wrong because I’m obviously in the minority here and I have no clue why. That’s honesty. I’d appreciate it.

No way do the Hawks trade Bedard for that. Yes the Hawks are awful on paper and that was by design. They stripped it down after the Beach scandal.

The Hawks have tons a prospects (they had 3 first round picks last year, 8 guys taken in the top 90). They have 2 first, 4 2nds, and 2 3rds this draft. Then in 24 they already have 2 1sts, 2 2nds and 2 3rds. Then in 25 they have 2 1sts, 2 seconds and a 3rd. That is 27 picks in the in the first 3 rounds (with 9 1st rounders) over a 4 year span (if they don't trade). They have high picks coming out their arse, last thing they need to do is trade generational type prospect for more picks. Draft Bedard and stay the course and build around the superstar center.

Also on top of all those picks the Hawks have a ton of cap space and flexibility moving forward. They are a major destination team and can sign some big time players when the time is right.

You build around Bedard, yes next year and probably 24 as well they will still be bottom ten. But in 25 a lot of those young guys will be ready. Then you also still have tons a picks to maybe trade for a proven player and tons of cap to sign some guys as well.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Like I think everyone is crazy I see no way how Bedard will possibly be successful in Chicago. They are terrible and he will make them to good to tank but not even close enough to compete. They will be stuck with mid 1sts for years and years and will never form a complete team then he will inevitably leave for a contender. I’d much rather trade him for a huge haul to create a foundation because right now there isn’t any. You don’t add a 5 star kitchen to a house when there is no foundation laid out.

Buffalo- Kulich, Savoie, Mittlesadt, Rosen, Ostlund, Devon Levi, 13th overall and 2024 1st

Chicago- 1st overall

Now not even imo in terms of long term success Chicago would be foolish to turn that down. That gives them a foundation to build upon because right now they could possibly have the worst team ( without Bedard ) on paper in NHL history.

I just feel like long term this puts them in a FAR better position to succeed where they can tank for a few years and wait for there prospects to develop rather then be forced to surround Bedard with talent quickly.

Can someone please take the time to reply and tell me why I’m wrong because I’m obviously in the minority here and I have no clue why. That’s honesty. I’d appreciate it.

Can tell you how to feel. For me as a hawks fan I’ll say no to that package. Hawks haven’t had even a offseason with bedard. Let’s see what they do.

 

[Happyhary9]

This I can agree with. I see maybe keller type .

This I can agree with. I see maybe keller type .

Keller? Not sure if you may just be trolling at this point.

Bedard just dominanted the WHL as a 17 year old(one of the youngest draft eligible players). The only other guys to dominant like he did in Canada Jr in the last 20 or so years in their draft years were Crosby and McDavid. Or how about a 17 year old dominating the best prospects in the world at WJC-20. Bedard scored 23 points in 7 games in his draft year at WJC-20. Keller didn't even make the team USA WJC-20 in his draft year. Keller made the that team in hit D+1 year and scored 11 points in 7 games. Bedard made a U20 team as a 16 year old and scored 8 points in 7 games. I think you need to read what actual scouts say about Bedard. Here you go.

Bedard among all-time prospects heading into 2023 NHL Draft | NHL.com

Projected No. 1 pick 'has taken it to an extra level,' Central Scouting says; lottery set for Monday

www.nhl.com

 

[Happyhary9]

Can tell you how to feel. For me as a hawks fan I’ll say no to that package. Hawks haven’t had even a offseason with bedard. Let’s see what they do.

I also don't think other fans realize the ridiculous amount of high picks the Hawks have from last year through 25. In drafts 22-25 the Hawks (without anymore trades) will select 27 times in the first three rounds (9 1sts, 10 2nds, 8 3rd). Last then the hawks need to do us trade a generational prospect for more good picks/prospects.

 

[Mrfenn92]

I also don't think other fans realize the ridiculous amount of high picks the Hawks have from last year through 25. In drafts 22-25 the Hawks (without anymore trades) will select 27 times in the first three rounds (9 1sts, 10 2nds, 8 3rd). Last then the hawks need to do us trade a generational prospect for more good picks/prospects.

Maybe they do maybe they don’t. Really doesn’t matter the hawks aren’t trading bedard.
It’s up to the hawks now to be able to draft and develop well going forward to go with bedard.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Teams that pick 1st overall never get good going forward. Everyone knows the best teams just remain the best teams forever (/s)

I see you pulled my quote way out of context.

Sorry….not you but OP.

You have to be bad to get the 1st overall in case you haven't heard. And we have a good pool of prospects getting better with 2 1st each of the next 3 drafts. Oh the horror lol!

And that is a hard pass on a lot of meh players as well as the later 1sts. There is zero benefit to the Hawks and all to the Sabres.

Yeah because to mid round 1sts that have a 25% chance of ever being impact players are going to transform the hawks. The hawks have Bedard, Nazar, Korchinsky and Riechel. Take those 4 players away and they’d get demolished by any KHL team.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I see you pulled my quote way out of context.


Yeah because to mid round 1sts that have a 25% chance of ever being impact players are going to transform the hawks. The hawks have Bedard, Nazar, Korchinsky and Riechel. Take those 4 players away and they’d get demolished by any KHL team.

And a lot of cap space but you forgot that. L

 

[Putt Pirate]

I see you pulled my quote way out of context.


Yeah because to mid round 1sts that have a 25% chance of ever being impact players are going to transform the hawks. The hawks have Bedard, Nazar, Korchinsky and Riechel. Take those 4 players away and they’d get demolished by any KHL team.

This year and next are not mid round for the Hawks pick obviously. And mid round in a loaded draft is a nice cherry on top. Sorry, but KD has it figured out which probably doesn’t sound ‘good’ to you.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

This year and next are not mid round for the Hawks pick obviously. And mid round in a loaded draft is a nice cherry on top. Sorry, but KD has it figured out which probably doesn’t sound ‘good’ to you.

That’s debatable with Bedard. Not sure who KD is but I hope the Hawks do well I used to chear for them when I was very young during there 1st cup runs. Just don’t like the pieces the Hawks have in place to surround Bedard. For their sake hopefully they’re awful the next two years and draft their teams Malkin and Letang ( to Pittsburghs Crosby )

 

[Putt Pirate]

That’s debatable with Bedard. Not sure who KD is but I hope the Hawks do well I used to chear for them when I was very young during there 1st cup runs. Just don’t like the pieces the Hawks have in place to surround Bedard. For their sake hopefully they’re awful the next two years and draft their teams Malkin and Letang ( to Pittsburghs Crosby )

What alternative universe do you live in where the generational talent goes to a top team?! No need to worry as KD has stated the plan and is sticking to it thankfully.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

What alternative universe do you live in where the generational talent goes to a top team?! No need to worry as KD has stated the plan and is sticking to it thankfully.

Uh Anahiem or Columbus almost won. They could’ve surrounded Bedard with loads of talent. Even San Jose. Every team in the NHL but Chicago on paper ( on paper ) “ON PAPER” and in case if you didn’t get that the 2nd time EVERY TEAM IN THE NHL ON PAPER. Is better equipped to get Bedard. The Blackhawks have absolutely no one good in the NHL at the moment.

 

[waitin425]

Does anybody think Chicago would trade first overall(Bedard) for second overall(fantilli?)

I was thinking of a hypothetical sedinesque scenario where the Canucks make a series of moves to get Bedard. Say something like

CBJ: 3rd oa -- Canucks 11 oa, JT. Miller+..?

ANA: 2nd oa -- Canucks 3rd oa+ podkolzin/lekkarimaki

Chicago 1st oa -- Canucks 2nd oa+ podkolzin/lekkarimaki +future 1st

It's probably to many moving parts for it to happen, but would the value be there for the teams?

 

[General Fanager]

That pick would only be available if Bedard informs them that he will never ever play for Chicago....

 

[Happyhary9]

Uh Anahiem or Columbus almost won. They could’ve surrounded Bedard with loads of talent. Even San Jose. Every team in the NHL but Chicago on paper ( on paper ) “ON PAPER” and in case if you didn’t get that the 2nd time EVERY TEAM IN THE NHL ON PAPER. Is better equipped to get Bedard. The Blackhawks have absolutely no one good in the NHL at the moment.

On paper one year to the next changes all the time in the NHL. Again while the Hawks lack NHL players at the moment, it was by design. They have a lot of solid prospects and a insane amount of picks coming up. From 22-25 drafts the Hawks have 27 picks in the first 3 rounds, with 9 1st rounders. The Hawks GM has laid out this plain starting last year and has stated they won't try and alter (as in price mail it just because Bedard) it. On top of all those prospects and picks they have an insane amount of cap space and flexibility moving forward. You don't trade a generational talent for a bunch off good prospects/players, when you have a lot good picks and prospects, along with cap space to sign good players.

The Hawks are very well set up to build around Bedard. Yes they won't go from worse to first in a year. Year 3 of Bedard is when they should be making some noise. I really can't remember a time when a team has had the amount of picks in the top 3 rounds the Hawks will have over a 4 year period. The Hawks stripped it all down (after the Beach scandal came out), the GM is not under pressure from owners to win over night. He has a time frame, hence he has be asking for 1st round picks in like 25 draft over wanting then right now. He has the Hawks draft capital spread out over multiple years. This give a ton of flexibility, maybe if the Hawks improve quicker they have the picks to trade for an proven player. That and a lot of the ELCs will be spaced out over the years as well. As well as the crazy amout of cap the Hawks have to sign another star, maybe a guy like Matthews if he leaves Toronto.

Bottom line is the Hawks have a crap load of very good assets (prospects and picks), they don't need more of those they need the top end asset/guy, which is Bedard. Absolutely stupid for the Hawks to trade Bedard in their situation. It would take an unbelievable overpayment and then some.

 

[Happyhary9]

I see you pulled my quote way out of context.


Yeah because to mid round 1sts that have a 25% chance of ever being impact players are going to transform the hawks. The hawks have Bedard, Nazar, Korchinsky and Riechel. Take those 4 players away and they’d get demolished by any KHL team.

Okay so 25%. The Hawks already have another first this year, 2 next year and 2 in 25. This isn't even factoring in the crazy amount of 2nd round picks, 4 this year, 2 in 24 and 2 in 25. But yes let's trade the near 100% pick and generation talent for more multiple 25% chance lottery tickets on top of the crazy amout we already have. The Hawks are set up near perfect to build around a talent like Bedard. A crap load if assets already in place with prospects and picks and a crap load if cap space moving forward.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

On paper one year to the next changes all the time in the NHL. Again while the Hawks lack NHL players at the moment, it was by design. They have a lot of solid prospects and a insane amount of picks coming up. From 22-25 drafts the Hawks have 27 picks in the first 3 rounds, with 9 1st rounders. The Hawks GM has laid out this plain starting last year and has stated they won't try and alter (as in price mail it just because Bedard) it. On top of all those prospects and picks they have an insane amount of cap space and flexibility moving forward. You don't trade a generational talent for a bunch off good prospects/players, when you have a lot good picks and prospects, along with cap space to sign good players.

The Hawks are very well set up to build around Bedard. Yes they won't go from worse to first in a year. Year 3 of Bedard is when they should be making some noise. I really can't remember a time when a team has had the amount of picks in the top 3 rounds the Hawks will have over a 4 year period. The Hawks stripped it all down (after the Beach scandal came out), the GM is not under pressure from owners to win over night. He has a time frame, hence he has be asking for 1st round picks in like 25 draft over wanting then right now. He has the Hawks draft capital spread out over multiple years. This give a ton of flexibility, maybe if the Hawks improve quicker they have the picks to trade for an proven player. That and a lot of the ELCs will be spaced out over the years as well. As well as the crazy amout of cap the Hawks have to sign another star, maybe a guy like Matthews if he leaves Toronto.

Bottom line is the Hawks have a crap load of very good assets (prospects and picks), they don't need more of those they need the top end asset/guy, which is Bedard. Absolutely stupid for the Hawks to trade Bedard in their situation. It would take an unbelievable overpayment and then some.

Okay so 25%. The Hawks already have another first this year, 2 next year and 2 in 25. This isn't even factoring in the crazy amount of 2nd round picks, 4 this year, 2 in 24 and 2 in 25. But yes let's trade the near 100% pick and generation talent for more multiple 25% chance lottery tickets on top of the crazy amout we already have. The Hawks are set up near perfect to build around a talent like Bedard. A crap load if assets already in place with prospects and picks and a crap load if cap space moving forward.

I just don’t see it. All those 27 picks are worth what? Would Avalanche even trade Rantanen for those 27 picks? I just think you thinking very wishfully if you think a solid roster could be made from those assests. Also I would call Chicagos prospect pool embarrassing for how bad they are.

Again everyone is replying but aren’t naming a team that is worse equipped to bring in Bedard.

 

[Putt Pirate]

I just don’t see it. All those 27 picks are worth what? Would Avalanche even trade Rantanen for those 27 picks? I just think you thinking very wishfully if you think a solid roster could be made from those assests. Also I would call Chicagos prospect pool embarrassing for how bad they are.

Again everyone is replying but aren’t naming a team that is worse equipped to bring in Bedard.

The posters you quoted mentioned the assets. They did not mention the Hawks have tTHE best coach with LR and why that roster punched above its weight last year. The other teams you mentioned had train wrecks for coaches which assisted their tank.

The Hawks are in great shape by the feedback from mgmt to fans. It doesn’t matter if some random on HF doesn’t understand how a rebuild works and that KD is trying to make it sustainable as well. We are stoked for the future! Enjoy the ride.

 

[McFlash97]

and here come the dumb proposals for the next great player.

Chicago isn't stupid.

 

[Happyhary9]

I just don’t see it. All those 27 picks are worth what? Would Avalanche even trade Rantanen for those 27 picks? I just think you thinking very wishfully if you think a solid roster could be made from those assests. Also I would call Chicagos prospect pool embarrassing for how bad they are.

Again everyone is replying but aren’t naming a team that is worse equipped to bring in Bedard.

You are so talking in circles. Let's look at your proposal from Buffalo.
Buffalo- Kulich, Savoie, Mittlesadt, Rosen, Ostlund, Devon Levi, 13th overall and 2024 1st.

Now lets break it down
Mittlesadt- a 24 year old who is a .5 ppg player with 3 years of control left. Worth maybe a mid first to a team ready now. Not worth it for the Hawks.
Savoie- unproven 1st round prospect
Ostlund- unproven 1st round prospect
Kulich- unproven late first round prospect
Levi- unproven 7th round pick
Rosen- unproven 1st rounder.

According to you these pics aren't worth much. Just to get Rantanen the Hawks give up 9 1sts (a 1 and 7 overall picks, higher then any of Buffalo's picks) 10 second round picks and 8 thirds. WTF.

Why do the Hawks want to give up a generational type prospect (which has a very very low bust rate) basically 4 or 5 solid/good assets which they already have a ton of anyway? Looks like all the Hawks are unproven 1st round picks are not worth much, yet those far less number of Buffalo 1st round picks are worth a lot more. Funny how Buffalo wants a generational type prospect and yet don't give up any of their top assets at all.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I just don’t see it. All those 27 picks are worth what? Would Avalanche even trade Rantanen for those 27 picks? I just think you thinking very wishfully if you think a solid roster could be made from those assests. Also I would call Chicagos prospect pool embarrassing for how bad they are.

How do you think players like Rantanen come into the League? Magic? As far as the prospect pool, you don't really know what you're talking about since the Hawks only blew "it" up pretty recently and it's quite solid if you know what you're looking at.

 

[slappipappi]

Like I think everyone is crazy I see no way how Bedard will possibly be successful in Chicago. They are terrible and he will make them to good to tank but not even close enough to compete. They will be stuck with mid 1sts for years and years and will never form a complete team then he will inevitably leave for a contender. I’d much rather trade him for a huge haul to create a foundation because right now there isn’t any. You don’t add a 5 star kitchen to a house when there is no foundation laid out.

Buffalo- Kulich, Savoie, Mittlesadt, Rosen, Ostlund, Devon Levi, 13th overall and 2024 1st

Chicago- 1st overall

Now not even imo in terms of long term success Chicago would be foolish to turn that down. That gives them a foundation to build upon because right now they could possibly have the worst team ( without Bedard ) on paper in NHL history.

I just feel like long term this puts them in a FAR better position to succeed where they can tank for a few years and wait for there prospects to develop rather then be forced to surround Bedard with talent quickly.

Can someone please take the time to reply and tell me why I’m wrong because I’m obviously in the minority here and I have no clue why. That’s honesty. I’d appreciate it.

because Chicago is like an expansion team gifted Bedard, a great prospect pool, a ton of draft picks, and a ton of cap space at a time when cap is king.

Have you quickly forgotten how Vegas and Seattle went from nothing to very good teams?

Chicago is in a much better position.

 

[Happyhary9]

How do you think players like Rantanen come into the League? Magic? As far as the prospect pool, you don't really know what you're talking about since the Hawks only blew "it" up pretty recently and it's quite solid if you know what you're looking at.

The guy is literally talking out his arse and in circles.

In one sentence the Hawks need to trade quality (Bedard) for quantity (more mid 1st rounders), then when posted out that the Hawks have a crap load of those assests (1st rounders), they are all of a sudden basically worthless.

Now he says the Hawks prospect pool is crap. The more he posts the more you realize he hates the Hawks and is butt hurt they got Bedard.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

You are so talking in circles. Let's look at your proposal from Buffalo.
Buffalo- Kulich, Savoie, Mittlesadt, Rosen, Ostlund, Devon Levi, 13th overall and 2024 1st.

Now lets break it down
Mittlesadt- a 24 year old who is a .5 ppg player with 3 years of control left. Worth maybe a mid first to a team ready now. Not worth it for the Hawks.
Savoie- unproven 1st round prospect
Ostlund- unproven 1st round prospect
Kulich- unproven late first round prospect
Levi- unproven 7th round pick
Rosen- unproven 1st rounder.

According to you these pics aren't worth much. Just to get Rantanen the Hawks give up 9 1sts (a 1 and 7 overall picks, higher then any of Buffalo's picks) 10 second round picks and 8 thirds. WTF.

Why do the Hawks want to give up a generational type prospect (which has a very very low bust rate) basically 4 or 5 solid/good assets which they already have a ton of anyway? Looks like all the Hawks are unproven 1st round picks are not worth much, yet those far less number of Buffalo 1st round picks are worth a lot more. Funny how Buffalo wants a generational type prospect and yet don't give up any of their top assets at all.

The hawks do not have 7th overall this year that pick belong to Philly. I’d take the buffalo package over Chicagos next 3 years of picks. Kulich and Levi might be the top two drafted prospects not currently playing in the NHL.

My point is the Blackhawks have no depth nor stars and depth>>>>> 1 generational talent, a couple of overpaid free agents, Riechel, and maybe 3/5 good players if they pan out. They need to fill in a whole roster besides Bedard and Reichel. That’s is 2 players that are NHL caliber in there whole system. ( not counting Jones ). What if Korchinsky and Nazar bust? ( the only 2 prospects in System that have any chance of being a impact player? ) I’m assuming the only way Bedard signs is if the Blackhawks spend to the celling and now they’re stuck with overpaid players like Taresanko, O’Rielly, Kuznetzkov, Ghost, JVR, Dumba, Klingberg ( wouldn’t be surprised if they signed them all this offseason and traded for Kuz ) now they have a local beer league caliber team with a few shiny toys.

because Chicago is like an expansion team gifted Bedard, a great prospect pool, a ton of draft picks, and a ton of cap space at a time when cap is king.

Have you quickly forgotten how Vegas and Seattle went from nothing to very good teams?

Chicago is in a much better position.

They have 2 good prospects hardly a good let alone great prospect pool. + Reichel if you count him I’ll acknowledge he is a stud.