Proposal: Chicago - Toronto

[Ziggdiezan]

I'll take the proven top-10 scorer over a guy who hasn't suited up for an NHL game yet, thanks. Not saying I'd do it from the Leafs perspective either, but its a definite no from Chicago, without even really thinking about it.

I'd wait until a player plays more than a season in the NHL to call him a proven top 10 scorer..

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Basically trading a young Seguin for a young kessel. No thanks, we've been in this story before and we don't like how it ends. Pass

This situation isn't the same, not saying I would deal Marner for him because I wouldn't but there is no comparison to when we got Kessel.

Kessel never had anything even REMOTELY close to Mathews he never had anything remotely close to Andersen in net, Reimer was hot and cold at best and Bernier was a disgrace.

He never had a player with as much talent as Nylander around him

Point is the team is MILES ahead of where it was when we got Kessel it's just not the same.

Now no you don't give up Marner for Panarin but getting Panarin makes a TON of sense

 

[Trapper]

I'd much rather keep Panarin.

It makes no sense.
The Leafs are rebuilding. They want to keep Marner, develop him and see what they have. They want their own draft picks to be the future much the same way yours were.

Chicago wants to keep winning now. They know what they have in Panarin, he is 24 and a key piece, they don't want to wait for Marner to develop.

There is no deal here.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

This situation isn't the same, not saying I would deal Marner for him because I wouldn't but there is no comparison to when we got Kessel.

Kessel never had anything even REMOTELY close to Mathews he never had anything remotely close to Andersen in net, Reimer was hot and cold at best and Bernier was a disgrace.

He never had a player with as much talent as Nylander around him

Point is the team is MILES ahead of where it was when we got Kessel it's just not the same.

Now no you don't give up Marner for Panarin but getting Panarin makes a TON of sense

Makes a TON of sense if it doesn't involve trading Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Rielly

 

[buttman*]

Yuck, wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. You can keep your overrated prospect, we'll keep our ppg 24 year old.

Say bye to him next year.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Makes a TON of sense if it doesn't involve trading Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Rielly

Right like a similar deal to the one that brought Kessel to Toronto might make sense now.

People will scoff at that and say "you would give up 2 1sts and a 2nd didn't you learn your lesson?"

But again there was no Mathews then, there was no Reilly, no Marner, no Nylander No Andersen No JVR no Gardiner

The talent level was not the same as it is no

We didn't fail back then because Kessel sucked we failed because we had nothing around him.

That's no longer the case

A similar deal might make sense.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Right like a similar deal to the one that brought Kessel to Toronto might make sense now.

People will scoff at that and say "you would give up 2 1sts and a 2nd didn't you learn your lesson?"

But again there was no Mathews then, there was no Reilly, no Marner, no Nylander No Andersen No JVR no Gardiner

The talent level was not the same as it is no

We didn't fail back then because Kessel sucked we failed because we had nothing around him.

That's no longer the case

A similar deal might make sense.

I personally think if the Leafs were to make a multiple draft pick trade like that it would be for an under 25 good defenseman rather than a forward.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I personally think if the Leafs were to make a multiple draft pick trade like that it would be for an under 25 good defenseman rather than a forward.

I would certainly be open to that although at this moment I can't think of who that would be , maybe Cody CeCi? I think we might see him try to sign a UFA D man if the make it like an Alzner Ora Shattenkirk

All I know is we got 25 million in space next season and that's without the rise in the cap which always rises thanks to the 5% escalator so I expect some moves to be made.

We got young talent, a strong prospect pool and TONS of cap space after this season

I expect some significant moves in the near future

 

[ThatSaid]

I'd wait until a player plays more than a season in the NHL to call him a proven top 10 scorer..

It sucks living in a world where people have a hard time identifying facts. Let me prove to you that Panarin is a top 10 scorer.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...2016&gameType=2&sort=points&aggregate=0&pos=S

If anything, the fact that it was his first season makes it more impressive, not less. You can argue whether or not he will continue to score at that pace, but what you can't say is that he isn't a proven top-10 scorer. That would be false.

This is opposed to Marner, who hasn't proven anything at the NHL level. You can say that he projects to be a PPG player, but it isn't a fact until he proves it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It sucks living in a world where people have a hard time identifying facts. Let me prove to you that Panarin is a top 10 scorer.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...2016&gameType=2&sort=points&aggregate=0&pos=S

If anything, the fact that it was his first season makes it more impressive, not less. You can argue whether or not he will continue to score at that pace, but what you can't say is that he isn't a proven top-10 scorer. That would be false.

This is opposed to Marner, who hasn't proven anything at the NHL level. You can say that he projects to be a PPG player, but it isn't a fact until he proves it.

Some people just want yo see him do it again make sure it's not a one off before they fully invest, that should be understandable because we have seen A LOT of players have 1 great year and then nothing.

I am not one of those people I take Panarin today but I understand some people wanting to wait

 

[Halla]

leafs dont go anywhere near this.
Panarin is 25 this month, he had a great season playing next to Kane, who led the league in scoring.

rebuilding teams dont trade stud prospects for guys seeking 7+ for their 2nd contract.

 

[Halla]

It sucks living in a world where people have a hard time identifying facts. Let me prove to you that Panarin is a top 10 scorer.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...2016&gameType=2&sort=points&aggregate=0&pos=S

If anything, the fact that it was his first season makes it more impressive, not less. You can argue whether or not he will continue to score at that pace, but what you can't say is that he isn't a proven top-10 scorer. That would be false.

This is opposed to Marner, who hasn't proven anything at the NHL level. You can say that he projects to be a PPG player, but it isn't a fact until he proves it.

Panarin was a top 10 scorer last year, but he isnt a "proven" top 10 scorer. guys have to do that year in and year out to get that tag.
is nik kulemin a proven 30 goal scorer?

 

[Halla]

Yuck, wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. You can keep your overrated prospect, we'll keep our ppg 24 year old.

overrated because he won every possible award last year?
and by the way your guy is 25 in 3 weeks. enjoy paying him 7 mil or trading him haha, we keep our 19 year old top 5 prospect

 

[ThatSaid]

overrated because he won every possible award last year?
and by the way your guy is 25 in 3 weeks. enjoy paying him 7 mil or trading him haha, we keep our 19 year old top 5 prospect

At least we'll be paying him for what he's already done, instead of what he might do 2-3 years in the future. I wonder which of the great prospects the Leafs have will be the one who gets his career ruined by a premature big payday. Hopefully there will be a basement team to take that guy along with one of your up and coming prospects.

See how stupid this argument is? Stop. Marner hasn't done **** in the NHL, Panarin won the Calder and was a top-10 scorer. Marner might turn out better, but he's definitely not putting up 70+ points in his rookie year. When do you believe Marner will put up as many points as Panarin did this year? Three years from now?

Panarin will get his contract from the Hawks. It will probably be from Hossa's LTIR, and everyone will whine and ***** about it, but he's staying a Hawk. There are a lot of other players who would be moved before he would.

 

[ThatSaid]

Panarin was a top 10 scorer last year, but he isnt a "proven" top 10 scorer. guys have to do that year in and year out to get that tag.
is nik kulemin a proven 30 goal scorer?

https://www.nhl.com/player/nikolay-kulemin-8473579

Yes. He has done it way more times than Marner.

 

[Halla]

At least we'll be paying him for what he's already done, instead of what he might do 2-3 years in the future. I wonder which of the great prospects the Leafs have will be the one who gets his career ruined by a premature big payday. Hopefully there will be a basement team to take that guy along with one of your up and coming prospects.

See how stupid this argument is? Stop. Marner hasn't done **** in the NHL, Panarin won the Calder and was a top-10 scorer. Marner might turn out better, but he's definitely not putting up 70+ points in his rookie year. When do you believe Marner will put up as many points as Panarin did this year? Three years from now?

Panarin will get his contract from the Hawks. It will probably be from Hossa's LTIR, and everyone will whine and ***** about it, but he's staying a Hawk. There are a lot of other players who would be moved before he would.

so you start your argument comparing what panarin will make to what marner will make on his elc (925,000 before bonuses for the record)

Marner has 6 years to put up 70+ points for a fair comparison given their ages. I'd bet on it. obviously not as a rookie, but panarin with 5 years pro wasnt exactly a rookie either.

leafs just dont go anywhere near this. they arent in the business of trading elite prospects to help the hawks out of their cap hell. try columbus again
Marner hasnt done *** in the NHL! yeah probably because he was 18 last year. Panarin at the same age was still 2 years from even being a KHL regular.

 

[Halla]

https://www.nhl.com/player/nikolay-kulemin-8473579

Yes. He has done it way more times than Marner.

considering he is 30 and marner is 19 I'd hope so.

does that make him better than mcdavid to by your flawed logic?

 

[Halla]

"Proven" top 10 scorer.
I needed a laugh today. take him off Kanes line and see if he is a proven top 10 scorer. mostly invisible during the world cup of hockey, outplayed by telegin. good luck with that 7+mil per. should have no trouble paying 5 guys 40+ million lol

 

[ThatSaid]

so you start your argument comparing what panarin will make to what marner will make on his elc (925,000 before bonuses for the record)

Marner has 6 years to put up 70+ points for a fair comparison given their ages. I'd bet on it. obviously not as a rookie, but panarin with 5 years pro wasnt exactly a rookie either.

leafs just dont go anywhere near this. they arent in the business of trading elite prospects to help the hawks out of their cap hell. try columbus again
Marner hasnt done *** in the NHL! yeah probably because he was 18 last year. Panarin at the same age was still 2 years from even being a KHL regular.

I don't care how old Marner is, the fact is, by the time he's at Panarin's level, most of our core will be retired/close to retired. Panarin is in his prime, and we're a contending team. I understand why the Leafs don't need a superstar in his prime right now, you're years away. I get it.

But the idea somehow that Marner has MORE value than Panarin because theoretically, he might some day, maybe be as good of a hockey player is laughable. Clear case of Toronto fans overvaluing their own players again, and Hawks players not getting the individual credit for their contributions. Again, we get it, our GM is competent and built a good team. Generally, good teams have elite players, which is exactly what Panarin already is.

If you could lock in 77 points for Marner in his 24 y/o year, you'd do it in a heartbeat, and you'd be smart to do so.

 

[hawksrule]

overrated because he won every possible award last year?

The one time he faced better competition at the WJC he was exceedingly average.

 

[Chez Weber]

Lol it's a big question, will Panarin be able to repeat his season especially if he isn't playing with an art Ross winner.



Of course they do but they don't at the cost of someone with a higher ceiling who is 5 years younger. A rebuilding team doesn't trade a beast like Marner for a Russian with 1 season under his belt

And the overvaluing of prospects continues on HF. If Marner gets 60 points this season you can be very happy

 

[jacks*]

Why would the Hawks trade Panarin for a player they hope would become as good as Panarin. Laughable.

 

[Randy Randerson]

And the overvaluing of prospects continues on HF. If Marner gets 60 points this season you can be very happy

the poster said "ceiling". Also 60 pts as a 19 year old rookie on a bottom 10 team probably projects to have a very elite prime, no?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Well if it looks like the Hawks cant get him signed that is a totally different situation. But the Hawks will get him signed no doubt.

Right now tho I don't see either team doing this deal.

ya if Chicago can fit him in, they do. Makes sense to keep a 25 year old top line winger if you can afford him as a contending team

agreed though, neither player fits the bill for the other team, unless Panarin can't be budgeted for then Marner probably looks very good to Chicago, but the leafs still don't do it

 

[nbwingsfan]

Marner's value is in his contract status and potential.

Panarin is a great player but his value drops when he signs his new deal. Marner will be cost controlled longer and is very likely to be just as good.

It makes very little sense for the Leafs to do this one for one, and to give up a + just makes this even less plausible.

I wouldn't put any prospect except McDavid and Matthews as "very likely" to be top 10 in scoring when they're just 23 (which also happened to be his first season).

Leafs fans are acting like Panarin is some vet. He's 24 years old and will be entering his prime when the Leafs are ready to contend. We've seen how teams who are built around 21 year olds turn out... you need some quality vets to help build around the young stars.

I can't see a single reason the Leafs would turn this down.