Chiarot - Seider

[raymond23]

Thought this was worthy of its own thread. One of the worst pairings in the league. A whopping 5v5 GF% of 33%.

Click to read more...

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Fester:

Wings fans:

 

[kook10]

I think the rose colored glasses with regard to Seider are starting to fade. Certainly Chiarot hasn't helped, but Mo's decision making has been poor and needs to improve dramatically.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

 

[norrisnick]

Etched in stone since day 1 of free agency.

I'm on record stating it was a bad fit from day 1 of training camp.

 

[Snuggs]

It's been said a lot by posters on this forum(not me) that they should split up.

Seems as if those posters are right. Guys sometimes just don't vibe well with each other even though both are talented. This seems to be that type of situation, imo.

 

[Ishad]

Seider is fine. Chiarot should be fired into the sun.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Etched in stone since day 1 of free agency.

I'm on record stating it was a bad fit from day 1 of training camp.

I'm on record for giving Chiarot a chance and thinking he couldn't be any worse than he was in Montreal. Boy howdy was I wrong...

He seems intent on being the lead defenseman on his pairing and I pointed that out after the first 10 games in the season where they were awful together. The chemistry still hasn't sorted itself out and this pairing can probably be pointed at as THE problem in at least 5 Detroit losses this year.

Fester needs to stop trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole and break this pairing up. Walman-Seider, and Chiarot-Oesterle can't possibly be worse.

 

[raymond23]

I'm on record for giving Chiarot a chance and thinking he couldn't be any worse than he was in Montreal. Boy howdy was I wrong...

He seems intent on being the lead defenseman on his pairing and I pointed that out after the first 10 games in the season where they were awful together. The chemistry still hasn't sorted itself out and this pairing can probably be pointed at as THE problem in at least 5 Detroit losses this year.

Fester needs to stop trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole and break this pairing up. Walman-Seider, and Chiarot-Oesterle can't possibly be worse.

Chiarot NEVER passes the puck to Seider. It's annoying.

 

[Pavels Dog]

None of the suggested alternatives sound all that great. Which I think very much plays into why Lalonde hasn't shaken things up.

For now I'm fine with it. I don't want to blame Seider's struggles on everyone else all the time.

 

[norrisnick]

I think the rose colored glasses with regard to Seider are starting to fade. Certainly Chiarot hasn't helped, but Mo's decision making has been poor and needs to improve dramatically.

If you were using the rosy goggles to opine on Mo, then yeah the overall impression would be pretty lousy right now. Seider hasn't played well, as a whole, this year. He's had some really strong assertive games, but he's had more than a few where he seems on autopilot and/or completely out of sync with Chia.

I think part of the issue is that there seems to be a breakout system in play and not everyone is dialed in. To me it looks like basically an option A/B situation.

A. Is there a clean pass to a forward?
Yes? Pass.
No? Move to B.
B. Fire it hard up the boards or back around to the other side. And there doesn't seem to be much care if that board pass has a Wing on the other end of it (and that goes for everyone on the blueline).

There is very little freedom and some games it feels like Mo is frustrated and just going through these motions. Especially because Chia does not adhere to this read/decision tree. Chia will toss ridiculous handgrenades Mo's way. And/or just take off.

That's breakouts.

On the PP, there are zero plays designed with a point shot. So Mo doesn't shoot. And since Mo doesn't shoot, the flanks are easier to defend. It looks and feels like Mo was told he's not an option to shoot on the PP so he doesn't even make it look like he might. Which makes it blatantly obvious to all involved that he's going to pass.

All around it feels like there has been an attempt to fix Seider's game, but it wasn't broken.

Chiarot NEVER passes the puck to Seider. It's annoying.

Oh he does. Just very rarely when he should.

None of the suggested alternatives sound all that great. Which I think very much plays into why Lalonde hasn't shaken things up.

For now I'm fine with it. I don't want to blame Seider's struggles on everyone else all the time.

Chia - Mo is the worst defensive pairing in the league. Who cares what anything else sounds like?

Do some coaching. Fix it.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Chiarot NEVER passes the puck to Seider. It's annoying.

That's something that was apparent from day one. I thought that maybe it was chemistry after the first five games but it's like this sequence happens almost like it's scripted once a game minimum:

Seider retrieves puck, moves puck to Chiarot
Chiarot has a forechecker on him and makes a shaky pace to center ice to a covered player or it gets fully intercepted and comes back to the Detroit zone.
Chiarot wins possession in a corner battle, makes a pass to Seider while Seider is in full coverage. Seider either gives the puck away up the boards or the pass misses him entirely.
Puck goes to opposing team and they get a prime scoring chance.

Last year if DDK had a forechecker on him or a bad pass to center he at least had the good sense to get the puck back to Seider. And I'm not saying Seider has been perfect this year, but his best hockey this season has come away from Chiarot. This D pair needs to be broken up.

 

[ThankGord]

Määttä-Sieder
Chiarot-Hronek

Just for a game at least, give it a try.

 

[ricky0034]

Wings Coaching staff when asked for a comment:

 

[jaster]

I was a proponent of giving it time to see if it would right itself. Well, it got time, and the listing ship has sunk.

I'm with Prashanth, leave the good pairing alone and breakup the bad pairing.

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Hronek
Chiarot - Oesterle

Looks weird, and it's extra challenging to appropriately divvy up the minutes, but at this point you've got virtually nothing to lose.

 

[norrisnick]

I was a proponent of giving it time to see if it would right itself. Well, it got time, and the listing ship has sunk.

I'm with Prashanth, leave the good pairing alone and breakup the bad pairing.

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Hronek
Chiarot - Oesterle

Looks weird, and it's extra challenging to appropriately divvy up the minutes, but at this point you've got virtually nothing to lose.

Not at all. As it is everyone is within 2 minutes in ES TOI. The extras come from special teams. Walman - Seider was out for PP2 last game anyway, so this works. Seider/Chia are PK1 and Maatta/Hronek are PK2. EDIT - forgot Hronek is PP1.

Easy

 

[jaster]

Not at all. As it is everyone is within 2 minutes in ES TOI. The extras come from special teams. Walman - Seider was out for PP2 last game anyway, so this works. Seider/Chia are PK1 and Maatta/Hronek are PK2. EDIT - forgot Hronek is PP1.

Easy

Fair enough. Knowing that ES minutes are always closer than many think, I didn't realize they were as close as they are on the Wings. All the better. Let's do this.

 

[norrisnick]

Fair enough. Knowing that ES minutes are always closer than many think, I didn't realize they were as close as they are on the Wings. All the better. Let's do this.

Great, who's in charge of letting the staff know we fixed the pairings?

 

[Gniwder]

Is it Chiarot's fault that Seider sucks in OT as well? Just asking.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Is it Chiarot's fault that Seider sucks in OT as well? Just asking.

 

[Henkka]

They have been bad, but still it's also somekind of statistical fluke, when they can get 2 other pairing overachieve drastically, at same time when one pair takes all the bullets on themselves and will underachieve drastically.

It has been somekind of line-matching thing too, which has overemphasized their bad stats.

Would like to see other kind of pairings, to get some individual data. Is it Chiarot who would drag Hronek down? Would Määttä put Seider to shine? We haven't seen these. Not until the pair will be split, we can't judge them in a fair way.

People who blaim only Chiarot, are blind. Seider has been as stupid and moron on the own end as Chiarot.

Seider will be future Hall of Famer, and he'll learn a lot about this period on his career.

How not to do things.

**

I always remember when Nick Lidström said how he learned a lot from Brad McCrimmon how to play defence an learned a lot from Paul Coffey how to play offence. After he was paired with Larry Murphy, then everything was learned and it just clicked.

Somebody, I don't remember where it was, but someone reversed it: "I learned a lot with McCrimmon how not to play offence and I learned a lot from Paul Coffey how not to play defence."

We have been joking with this for over a decade.

 

[kook10]

Is it Chiarot's fault that Seider sucks in OT as well? Just asking.

Yea - I don't know how Mo gets a perpetual pass. Somehow his bad passes are Chia's fault? I suppose he made him pinch at the wrong time, blind pass the puck, and chase in the corners too.

He is a kid and still has happy hands. Sure, he'll develop but why not be accountable in the process? Just pair them both with partners who bail each of them out rather than mirror images.

 

[SoupGuru]

I'm pretty sure DDK would come back if you asked nicely

 

[Gniwder]

Yea - I don't know how Mo gets a perpetual pass. Somehow his bad passes are Chia's fault? I suppose he made him pinch at the wrong time, blind pass the puck, and chase in the corners too.

He is a kid and still has happy hands. Sure, he'll develop but why not be accountable in the process? Just pair them both with partners who bail each of them out rather than mirror images.

He looked completely disinterested in OT, didn't even bother skating with the puck and just flung it and gave it away both times. Joey got saddled with a -1 because Seider decided he didn't care. This is NOT the same Seider form last year that wanted to win the game by himself in OT.

It's time to reduce his role until the team figures out what's wrong with him. Whatever the pairings are, Seider shouldn't be on the top pair until he finds his game.

 

[Gniwder]

I'm pretty sure DDK would come back if you asked nicely

Hire him as a consultant. The team shouldn't hesitate to spend money to get Seider back on track.