Seravalli: Chiarot being scratched until traded?

[Calad]

I would hear it if it was 51% and you're telling me he's worth a first.

It's 0%.

People talk about analytics not being the be-all-end-all but there's no meeting in the middle and I'm expected to believe your eye test is the be-all-end-all.

whole lotta assumption here

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

 

[Suave]

heck no, what a terrible move this would be for doug armstrong. he's typically a smarter gm than that

I agree, but Habs could add to make the deal work.

 

[Machinehead]

Wait you don't watch our 32nd place montreal team in your spare time ?

I barely watch the Rangers. I zone out into a vegetative state because they're so bad. That's a different story. I digress.

You don't understand usage and the coach leaning heaving on D zone guys. Keep watching and learn from what some of the posters are saying. Usage and D zone starts is important.

Danault was criticized for lack of offense by several Habs fans but they failed to realize that he was in a defensive role where he started in the D zone 60-80% of the time and that's not some typical average. Far from it. With the Kings, he is more close to 50/50 and his stats show up.

Muzzin was criticized lately by Leafs fans but their coach is also leaning on him heavy in a defensive role. So many look at stats and points and they just don't know what they are talking about. A hockey team needs parts in many different areas and it's not always about offense.

That’s probably because 60% of his draws start in the d zone

80% of shifts start when you jump over the boards, not before a faceoff. Zone starts are a largely discredited avenue in analytics that was relevant ten years ago.

 

[JustAHabFan]

Giordano is old and washed out. Leafs kept looking for wrong players.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I barely watch the Rangers. I zone out into a vegetative state because they're so bad. That's a different story. I digress.


80% of shifts start when you jump over the boards, not before a faceoff. Zone starts are a largely discredited avenue in analytics that was relevant ten years ago.

Yes but the D zone starts gives you an indication of how the coach is using them. Don't ignore it cause you found something that says 80% of the shifts are off the boards. It's not wide open like that and the Coaches do play the match-up game a lot!

 

[Machinehead]

Yes but the D zone starts gives you an indication of how the coach is using them. Don't ignore it cause you found something that says 80% of the shifts are off the boards. It's not wide open like that and the Coaches do play the match-up game a lot!

Evidently that isn't the role for him!

Sure, he could be of some use a reduced role then, but probably isn't worth the fanfare and potential cost he's generating. Both of those things can be true.

And if you're looking for a player in a reduced role, you can get one for cheaper who does that by trade.

 

[HuGort]

A1

 

[Habs Halifax]

Evidently that isn't the role for him!

Sure, he could be of some use a reduced role then, but probably isn't worth the fanfare and potential cost he's generating. Both of those things can be true.

And if you're looking for a player in a reduced role, you can get one for cheaper who does that by trade.

Depends. Are you a legit contender looking for a final 4 finish or a fringe playoff team looking at a 1st round exit? Tampa paid a steep price for Coleman and Savard who were either bottom 6F or bottom pairing during their cup runs.

If you want something cheaper, it's cheaper yes. But it's also not as good on the ice where the other team's coach can and will focus on that bottom pairing.

Savard played 14 min a game for Tampa on the bottom pairing in the playoffs and it cost them a 1st. Do they know what they are doing or not?

Teams who think they won't go far, need to steer clear of trading good prospects and 1st/2nd rounders. I support that. But if you think you can get to the final 4 and your core is in tack for some years to come, you should be making moves. Otherwise, you look back in 3-5 years and wonder how close you were.

 

[HuGort]

I need somebody to explain all the interest

View attachment 515736

I don't know. All I know is without Chiarot we don't get to Cup finals. If Tampa don't Kuchernov the cap we probably have a cup

 

[Machinehead]

I don't know. All I know is without Chiarot we don't get to Cup finals. If Tampa don't Kuchernov the cap we probably have a cup

Yeah because that series was close.

 

[HuGort]

Yeah because that series was close.

Yup

 

[Blacephalon]

Edit: It was fake

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

I love the Fourth Per1od for all my hockey news!

 

[Blacephalon]

I love the Fourth Per1od for all my hockey news!

lol my bad

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

lol my bad

All good, ‘tis the season. Haha.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I need somebody to explain all the interest

View attachment 515736

Damn, well, let's trade Ben Chiarot for a 7th if we're lucky


Graphs that don't tell the whole story are all we need now.

Don't forget, it was a graph like this that said Joel Edmundson was the worst player in the league.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I don't know. All I know is without Chiarot we don't get to Cup finals. If Tampa don't Kuchernov the cap we probably have a cup

While I agree with you on Chiarot's impact last year. Tampa still mops the floor with us even without Kuchernov. We were playing house money the whole way and our Cinderella carriage turned back into a pumpkin.

 

[Machinehead]

Damn, well, let's trade Ben Chiarot for a 7th if we're lucky


Graphs that don't tell the whole story are all we need now.

Don't forget, it was a graph like this that said Joel Edmundson was the worst player in the league.

I never said that.

What I'm saying is, the Habs are scratching this guy to protect their return.

I want to know why the league is treating him like Scott Stevens.

 

[Nickmo82]

Edit:

I don't like the new format for uploading stuff...
... but I don't like the notion that the Rangers might be in on this guy even less.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I never said that.

What I'm saying is, the Habs are scratching this guy to protect their return.

I want to know why the league is treating him like Scott Stevens.

Well, this league is kinda soft. Playoffs rules change.

Regular season Chiarot, I'll give you the he's not worth the hype, but the way he plays is prime playoffs.

Forwards for a hit on him and they bounce off, then he demolishes them, or makes them pay for going to the net.

His offense that he shows/has showed I wouldn't count on it once the playoffs start. Anything he produces is "found money"

His advanced numbers look bad, or likely do. However, they almost certainly don't and likely can't take into account how much a team has sucked at points in their season.

In short, he's a big, mean, punishing dman that blocks shots, throws hits, clears the net and can fight. His puck moving abilities are decent. Boomer shot, but wouldn't count on offense from him. If you are counting on him to provide offense, then your team isn't ready and you shouldn't trade for him.

 

[Tripledeke333]

I’m a Habs fan and love Chariot. I don’t think he is worth a 1st, but the market is the market. With not many Dman available, some team will throw a 1st at him for a shot at the cup. He was great in the POs last year and is a good addition to any team.

 

[1909]

What St-Louis Blues got to offer to the Habs in a trade for Chiarot ? Their 1st rounder ? in 2022 0r 23 ? Jake Neighbours ?

 

[Chips]

You have to consider usage, ice time, and D zone starts. If you are trying to use stats to say he is not good defensively, you really don't know what kind of player he is. There is no way the Habs are able to go on that run without Chiarot and someone else in his spot (23-25 min a game). Those targeted stats you found can be applied to many guys like Chiarot who have 60-70% of D zone starts and are always up against the other teams best forwards.

Basically the same as Leafs fans saying Muzzin now sucks. Well, your coach is leaning on him heavy in the D zone!

How about you ask Marner and other forwards on the Leafs if they think Chiarot sucks defensively. Especially in the playoffs.

Notice how the card shows a timeline. Habs fans keep saying he’s valuable this year based on last season. The cards measure the past. It’s more or less consistent with what people are saying about last year when you look at the timeline, his defensive play was stronger than it has been this year


Maybe it’s pressure to play injured all year, maybe it’s a matter of the whole team playing worse this year (everyone on the Sabres last year until their coach/team change) and he’ll get better, maybe he’s just another older physical Dman who’s genuinely fallen off but he hasn’t been good from this year and a 1st is hugely risky to get him this year

 

[The Note]

What St-Louis Blues got to offer to the Habs in a trade for Chiarot ? Their 1st rounder ? in 2022 0r 23 ? Jake Neighbours ?

Hopefully none of the above.