Proposal: Chariot and Jake Allen to Leafs

[Goldenhands]

Nobody is going to give you a 1st for Jake Allen. I can say that with an EXTREME degree of confidence.

I'd suspect that the best deal from Toronto for Allen would be Mrazek, a 2nd, and a mid-level prospect.

Allen alone, probably not, but if you add a Chairot, then a 1st + Knies would be a fair deal, especially if we take Mrazek's bad contract in the process.

Also, Habs arent in need to move Allen, teams will have to overpay if they really want him. We could rather trade Price at 30% retained this summer if his knee is alright.

 

[CDN24]

Leafs will be perfectly fine with that.... like you seem to agree, Chiarot's worth a 2nd... maybe an extra asset depending on retention levels.

Allen's likely worth less... no reason to lump these 2 together.

I said Habs can get a 2nd for Chiarot anywhere, he is probably worth more. Ultimately he is worth will be what the market bears- what someone is willing to pay. If that is the Leafs great, if not it will be someone one else and barring season ending injury (time to pull him to protect the asset) he will be traded as a UFA. Habs not compelled to trade Allen, it will take an offer that they feel is worth more to Mtl than Allen to make it happen.

In your "offer" we assume the 2nd and B prospect is for Chiarot, its not likely enough but never mind that. That leaves a Cap dump in Mzarek who hasn't been good at any point this year and has been awful as of late. Probably negative value there and a dime a dozen D-man. That does not get you Allen. No way Habs value that as being worth more than Allen.

The thing to remember is Habs don't need to trade Allen but do want to move Chiarot as a UFA. They will take what they perceive to be the best offer on him. Now the Leafs based on what I saw yesterday and the last few weeks are heading for another 1st round exit if they do nothing. They need to upgrade in Goal and really need a physical D-man like Chiarot. (guy plays left or right side). There are a few D who will be available- none will be cheap. Goalie- there are not many. Going to be interesting. The Market will determine the Price and desperation will drive the market.

 

[AvroArrow]

What would the Leafs need to trade?

I would say Knies, Lillgren, First round pick and cap dump not sure who

I would say we hang up the phone

 

[5cotland]

LOL.

Looks like Knies is becoming the new Bracco/Kapanen/Johnsson/Dermott

 

[The90]

LOL.

Looks like Knies is becoming the new Bracco/Kapanen/Johnsson/Dermott

Not even close. Those guys all had their shot and played in the league (except for bracco). Not to mention kapanen and johnsson are both good, productive middle 6 forwards, with kapanen literally just getting traded as the main piece of a package that returned a first round pick.

I don’t know much about knies, I do know he played for the U.S. Olympic team as a college player and that 6’3 PPG rookies, in Division 1 hockey, don’t grow on trees.

You tried though.

 

[5cotland]

Not even close. Those guys all had their shot and played in the league (except for bracco). Not to mention kapanen and johnsson are both good, productive middle 6 forwards, with kapanen literally just getting traded as the main piece of a package that returned a first round pick.

I don’t know much about knies, I do know he played for the U.S. Olympic team as a college player and that 6’3 PPG rookies, in Division 1 hockey, don’t grow on trees.

You tried though.

You are trying too hard my guy.

Knies is the guy chucked into every Leafs trade offer as if he is a blue chip prospect.

Knies is just like Bracco / Kapanen / Johnsson / Dermott in being chucked into nearly every Leafs trade thread before this.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Problem is outside of Chiarot the habs have nothing realistically they could trade to the leafs that would help them. With all the teams selling this deadline the Habs are in no position to be picky about where their ufa's are traded to.

actually they're in a great position I'd say. Allen's not a UFA and they're in no rush to move him. Chiarot will create a bidding war - especially with other D now being injured. I expect them to get a 1st and B prospect or 2nd and very good prospect.
As per other UFA's? who cares? paquette, perreault, no one cares.
They may resign Kulak / and or wideman, but guys like Guhle and hopefully harris are on their way.
there are no UFA's of significance on habs outside of chiarot and maybe kulak

 

[mouser]

Allen will go for like a 3rd. Chiarot will go for a 1st + 4th or something like that. I think those are realistic prices

I see Allen for a 3rd or B- prospect. Chiarot for a 2nd + B/B- prospect.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Please no Jake Allen.

 

[Gravity]

I see Allen for a 3rd or B- prospect. Chiarot for a 2nd + B/B- prospect.

Chiarot will get a 1st.

 

[HuGo Sham]

i can't fathom allen doing well in toronto at all. all this funny talk of him stealing a job from a goaltender is good stuff on a rough monday though. nice to see a leafs proposal trying to address their defense for once though, even if it is only for chiarot. feels like toronto reacquiring polak all over again.

this is a clueless take. sorry

 

[lamp9post]

2nd rounder + dermott is actually a pretty good return for Chiarot -- you get the 2nd which is basically standard currency for what he should return, but instead of some longer-shot prospect, you get a defenceman that can immediately step up and into your NHL lineup on a really cheap contract, who's still an RFA afterwards.

As for the "Allen component"... sure, maybe Mrazek, a mid-level prospect, and conditional pick is a bit light... but its a heck of a lot closer than what the OP had suggested.

No, 2nd and Dermott is a pretty poor return for Chiarot. Dermott adds nothing to the package - he's a replacement level player; a warm body that can fill a roster spot, but Habs can find players like that via free agency. A 2nd on top of it isn't nearly enticing enough.

In terms of the Allen proposal, I think you are underestimating just how bad a contract Mrazek has and what it will take for another team to take him on.

 

[The90]

You are trying too hard my guy.

Knies is the guy chucked into every Leafs trade offer as if he is a blue chip prospect.

Knies is just like Bracco / Kapanen / Johnsson / Dermott in being chucked into nearly every Leafs trade thread before this.

Breaking news: 5cotland has an issue with leafs fans / fans of other teams making trade proposals with the leafs top prospects.

 

[5cotland]

Breaking news: 5cotland has an issue with leafs fans / fans of other teams making trade proposals with the leafs top prospects.

 

[AcerComputer]

LoL to this proposal. Allen has been brutal 4 out of the last 5 seasons and has 1.5 year left at $2.9M, and is long past his former glory playing in STL. Probably worth a 4th rounder with retention. Unless MTL is taking on Mrazek there is no deal to be had here.

 

[The Price is Right]

Cant believe people are crapping on Chiarot and Allen... Chiarot shut down AM and Marner all playoffs last year and Allen is for sure more stable than Campbell and Mrazek.

 

[Raym11]

Muzzin gets hurt and they can barely win in the regular season. Then some Leafs fans say Muzzin sucks... probably stat watching like they are with Chiarot and Allen

You've confirmed yourself stat watching too though, considering if you watched the games you would know that Muzzin wasn't playing that well compared to his old self, and the goalies have been divebombing since 2022 started.

in fact, stat watchers are the ones who bring up Holl & Muzzin being a strong pair bringing out their analytics, when they were horrible the last few months to ACTUALLY watch on ice

Obviously Muzzin is a net positive to the D, but to corollate Muzzin with the Leafs winning games just proves you are what you're complaining about other people with Chiarot and Allen

 

[Doc5]

LoL to this proposal. Allen has been brutal 4 out of the last 5 seasons and has 1.5 year left at $2.9M, and is long past his former glory playing in STL. Probably worth a 4th rounder with retention. Unless MTL is taking on Mrazek there is no deal to be had here.

Did you just go on HockeyDB and look at which years his GAA was above 2.5?
No one is taking on that Mrazek contract without overpayment from the Leafs.

 

[HuGort]

Allen alone, probably not, but if you add a Chairot, then a 1st + Knies would be a fair deal, especially if we take Mrazek's bad contract in the process.

Also, Habs arent in need to move Allen, teams will have to overpay if they really want him. We could rather trade Price at 30% retained this summer if his knee is alright.

Manson returned a second and solid prospect. Chiarot for Knies and 2nd is even trade

 

[Arthur Morgan]

rather lose over pay that

 

[BKarchitect]

I hate the Leafs. Knies is a far superior prospect than these other names people are chucking around as “high profile and overhyped” Leafs prospects. What lazy freaking comparisons.

If Dubas even entertains the idea of dealing Knies for Chiarot and Allen(which, what’s the point, is he going to play two average goalies in net at once?), Leafs fandom should storm the Leafs offices and fire him into the sun with a trebuchet.

 

[Mike Dukarm]

If Leafs want Chiarot, they will pay a 1st.

If we were in july the cost for that kind of player would be a 2nd, but at TDL its a 1st.

So does Leafs need a 2nd pairing D for a 1st... if yes do it, if not Chiarot will go to the team who will pay that (1st or a prospect with that value)

I really think Leafs should take Chiarot for the playoff run... against Florida or Tampa... But maybe they want to use they 1st for an other kind of player or position needs

 

[seanlinden]

Allen alone, probably not, but if you add a Chairot, then a 1st + Knies would be a fair deal, especially if we take Mrazek's bad contract in the process.

Also, Habs arent in need to move Allen, teams will have to overpay if they really want him. We could rather trade Price at 30% retained this summer if his knee is alright.

"Fairness" has no real place in trades -- only being in the best interest of both teams.

It would be an incredibly STUPID deal for the Leafs to do, giving up 2 pieces of greater quality than either Chiarot or Allen would be able to garner on their own.

The concept of giving up your first round pick for a rental like Chiarot, or a backup-swap in Allen is colossally stupid. The concept of giving up Knies (who IMO is worth more than the Leafs 1st this year), even more ridiculous. The idea that the Leafs should trade both to do that deal, is something that Dubas should get fired for.

 

[seanlinden]

Manson returned a second and solid prospect. Chiarot for Knies and 2nd is even trade

Manson is a lot more desirable than Chiarot, and Knies likely valued higher than Helleson.

 

[seanlinden]

If Leafs want Chiarot, they will pay a 1st.

If we were in july the cost for that kind of player would be a 2nd, but at TDL its a 1st.

So does Leafs need a 2nd pairing D for a 1st... if yes do it, if not Chiarot will go to the team who will pay that (1st or a prospect with that value)

I really think Leafs should take Chiarot for the playoff run... against Florida or Tampa... But maybe they want to use they 1st for an other kind of player or position needs

No, they really won't... because they won't have to.

If the Leafs want Chiarot, it'll be their 2nd round pick, plus some other, lesser asset. Maybe it's a prospect excluding Knies/Niemla/Robertson; maybe it's Travis Dermott or Justin Holl... obviously at that point you're getting into splitting hairs, and MTLs pro scouting will be the determinant of who they like.