Confirmed with Link: Changes Incoming

[BigKing]

I agree with Herby that you don't fire Sutter after 2015. If what Hoven is saying is true, this would be the only "get-in-front-of-it" move Lombardi would have made since 2014 but, at the time, it wouldn't have even looked like "getting in front of a problem".

They just came off the two-in-three run and fluked out of the playoffs with 95 points amidst a tumultuous season with the Voynov issue front and center. Optics would have been horrible. As it stands, they came back with a 100 point season the next year. Even though I still think the '15 team was better than '16, it was still 100 points.

The time to let him go was when his contract was up. No embarrassing the coach and there is an easy "Sutter wants to go back to the farm" narrative.

I don't completely buy this story from Hoven. I do, however, buy that Sutter felt a little misled on what this season held in store after July 1 and then especially when the final roster was put out there. If I'm a head coach who thinks his team is limited already due to the loss of Lucic, I'm not terribly excited to see Purcell and Setoguchi since I know what I'm getting out of them and it isn't very much.

Not that Kempe is anything like Kopitar, because he isn't close, but the idea that Sutter wanted Kempe from the start of the season reminds me of Andy Murray after Kopitar's rookie season, something like "If I had him, I'd still be coaching the Kings" or something like that. Lombardi iced a poor team this past season and Sutter knew it. I mentioned all year how Sutter didn't seem as intense or hard on the guys in the press as he as in years past: it's because he knew that this team was not very good, or at least once Quick went down. I've heard Hoven say Sutter quit on the team...I wouldn't go that far but it does seem like he definitely dialed back expectations.

As for Sutter's comments post-firing, I'm not surprised one bit. This guy has been fired before, knows the business and was at his usual shelf life for his coaching gigs. Squeezed one more year of dancing for Chris and gets paid for one more season without having to talk to the media every day. He's totally fine...Lombardi is the one who basically built this thing from scratch so I imagine this has been more difficult for him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He's one of the people actually accomplishing something. We're fans, we get tied up in the larger picture of a franchise. Coaches, players, they come and go. There have been few teams, certainly in recent history, that have put together a 3 year run like the Kings had. Even those great Colorado teams didn't win 2 Cups in 3 years. They were better for a longer period of time, having made it to at least the 3rd round in 6 of 7 consecutive seasons, but they didn't get that 2nd Cup as quickly.

This is why sometimes when people say "is it too much to ask for us to have been competitive for much longer?" my response is "kinda yes, yes it is." Like, do you prefer to be the team that's always in the playoffs and more often than not out before the end of the second round? Or the team that goes Cup-WCF-Cup before hovering around the bubble? Sutter gets it. Two Cups, especially with the Blackhawks prime running concurrently, is ****ing hard. And part of why I don't give two ***** about what the rebuild looks like because we've seen 40 years of it here before and it took Edmonton a decade of doing what some people are asking here to even have a prayer of trying to do what we've done. Odds are likely we've seen the best era of Kings hockey ever, Blake et. al. have a hard act to follow.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree with Herby that you don't fire Sutter after 2015. If what Hoven is saying is true, this would be the only "get-in-front-of-it" move Lombardi would have made since 2014 but, at the time, it wouldn't have even looked like "getting in front of a problem".

They just came off the two-in-three run and fluked out of the playoffs with 95 points amidst a tumultuous season with the Voynov issue front and center. Optics would have been horrible. As it stands, they came back with a 100 point season the next year. Even though I still think the '15 team was better than '16, it was still 100 points.

The time to let him go was when his contract was up. No embarrassing the coach and there is an easy "Sutter wants to go back to the farm" narrative.

I don't completely buy this story from Hoven. I do, however, buy that Sutter felt a little misled on what this season held in store after July 1 and then especially when the final roster was put out there. If I'm a head coach who thinks his team is limited already due to the loss of Lucic, I'm not terribly excited to see Purcell and Setoguchi since I know what I'm getting out of them and it isn't very much.

Not that Kempe is anything like Kopitar, because he isn't close, but the idea that Sutter wanted Kempe from the start of the season reminds me of Andy Murray after Kopitar's rookie season, something like "If I had him, I'd still be coaching the Kings" or something like that. Lombardi iced a poor team this past season and Sutter knew it. I mentioned all year how Sutter didn't seem as intense or hard on the guys in the press as he as in years past: it's because he knew that this team was not very good, or at least once Quick went down. I've heard Hoven say Sutter quit on the team...I wouldn't go that far but it does seem like he definitely dialed back expectations.

As for Sutter's comments post-firing, I'm not surprised one bit. This guy has been fired before, knows the business and was at his usual shelf life for his coaching gigs. Squeezed one more year of dancing for Chris and gets paid for one more season without having to talk to the media every day. He's totally fine...Lombardi is the one who basically built this thing from scratch so I imagine this has been more difficult for him.

Yeah I'm not sure Sutter quit on the team either but the idea that he was lackadaisical about expectations--and his quotes were similar in press conferences--speak volumes about the effort on the ice. I do recall him wanting Kempe there and agree with your evaluation; I'd also add that having been a GM himself, he probably wanted some more say in the roster, or more effort/results from DL in putting it together (this is why Tippett is still in AZ, as well). Can imagine that moving forward having a coach who wants to change the roster disagreeing with a GM and who BOTH are not on board with everyone else in the organization paired with the on-ice results made this the easy move.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

This is why sometimes when people say "is it too much to ask for us to have been competitive for much longer?" my response is "kinda yes, yes it is." Like, do you prefer to be the team that's always in the playoffs and more often than not out before the end of the second round? Or the team that goes Cup-WCF-Cup before hovering around the bubble? Sutter gets it. Two Cups, especially with the Blackhawks prime running concurrently, is ****ing hard. And part of why I don't give two ***** about what the rebuild looks like because we've seen 40 years of it here before and it took Edmonton a decade of doing what some people are asking here to even have a prayer of trying to do what we've done. Odds are likely we've seen the best era of Kings hockey ever, Blake et. al. have a hard act to follow.

Can we go back to those years? Man what great years those were. I was actually rooting for Chicago the years the Kings didn't make it (2013, 2015) just because I wanted the cup to rotate between the two teams. Everyone always thinks they have a chance to win the cup but they really didn't. Not with the Kings and Hawks running at such high levels. 2012-2015 Kings and Hawks would crush everyone in the playoffs these days. They could spot the opposing team a 2-0 series lead and I'd still have confidence in the Kings or Hawks coming back to win the series.

 

[Basilisk]

Can we go back to those years? Man what great years those were. I was actually rooting for Chicago the years the Kings didn't make it (2013, 2015) just because I wanted the cup to rotate between the two teams. Everyone always thinks they have a chance to win the cup but they really didn't. Not with the Kings and Hawks running at such high levels. 2012-2015 Kings and Hawks would crush everyone in the playoffs these days. They could spot the opposing team a 2-0 series lead and I'd still have confidence in the Kings or Hawks coming back to win the series.

Sounds like something I should pick up on DVD!

 

[cyclones22]

This is why sometimes when people say "is it too much to ask for us to have been competitive for much longer?" my response is "kinda yes, yes it is." Like, do you prefer to be the team that's always in the playoffs and more often than not out before the end of the second round? Or the team that goes Cup-WCF-Cup before hovering around the bubble? Sutter gets it. Two Cups, especially with the Blackhawks prime running concurrently, is ****ing hard. And part of why I don't give two ***** about what the rebuild looks like because we've seen 40 years of it here before and it took Edmonton a decade of doing what some people are asking here to even have a prayer of trying to do what we've done. Odds are likely we've seen the best era of Kings hockey ever, Blake et. al. have a hard act to follow.

I'm of this line of thinking. I read a lot of how in 5 seasons, the Kings went from the top of the heap to some ridiculous hyperbole of being in disastrous shape or something of the like now. Well, as fans, in 5 seasons we went from being loyal, knowledgeable fans who deserved something to cheer about to being spoiled mother****ers. I mean, to each his own. Be as salty as you want about the current state of the franchise, but I personally can't go off the deep end myself when I have 2 replica Stanley Cups on my work desk and 2 championship banners hanging from my banisters.

 

[Herby]

Actually, more proof that AEG is always meddling and overriding hockey ops.


Expect more of the same these next couple seasons.

Any other examples?

I wish they had meddled more after 2014.

 

[Keith Sweaty]

This is why sometimes when people say "is it too much to ask for us to have been competitive for much longer?" my response is "kinda yes, yes it is." Like, do you prefer to be the team that's always in the playoffs and more often than not out before the end of the second round? Or the team that goes Cup-WCF-Cup before hovering around the bubble? Sutter gets it. Two Cups, especially with the Blackhawks prime running concurrently, is ****ing hard. And part of why I don't give two ***** about what the rebuild looks like because we've seen 40 years of it here before and it took Edmonton a decade of doing what some people are asking here to even have a prayer of trying to do what we've done. Odds are likely we've seen the best era of Kings hockey ever, Blake et. al. have a hard act to follow.

great post

 

[Quattro]

I'm of this line of thinking. I read a lot of how in 5 seasons, the Kings went from the top of the heap to some ridiculous hyperbole of being in disastrous shape or something of the like now. Well, as fans, in 5 seasons we went from being loyal, knowledgeable fans who deserved something to cheer about to being spoiled mother****ers. I mean, to each his own. Be as salty as you want about the current state of the franchise, but I personally can't go off the deep end myself when I have 2 replica Stanley Cups on my work desk and 2 championship banners hanging from my banisters.

This x1000. Great post.

 

[kingskring]

 

[damacles1156]

The Hawks might go out in the first round....Again.

I can see Bowman getting fired, if the Hawks get swept.

 

[Herby]

AEG didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

When a GM has a three year period like DL had he is almost always toast, even when they had previous success. Feaster, Chiarelli and Shero all had the same things happen to them.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

AEG didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

When a GM has a three year period like DL had he is almost always toast, even when they had previous success. Feaster, Chiarelli and Shero all had the same things happen to them.

Agreed. You can't just overlook several years of awful decisions and disappointment because he had success three years ago. Three years is an eternity in sports

 

[BigKing]

AEG didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

When a GM has a three year period like DL had he is almost always toast, even when they had previous success. Feaster, Chiarelli and Shero all had the same things happen to them.

I think the implication here is that if they did indeed stop DL from letting Sutter go after '15, then they meddled in a decision made by the architect of a team that just won two cups in four seasons.

If they got in the way of DL while he was still, generally, riding high then what can be expected moving forward?

For the record, I don't believe that DL was going to fire Sutter after '15 so it is a moot point except for the "How much will AEG meddle going forward" concern.

 

[Herby]

BigKing,

I still have no issue with ownership vetoing that, if it's true. Firing a coach less than a year after winning a Cup? That is ridiculous, and the Kings would have been mocked around the league for doing it.

Let's not also forget this group did nothing until Sutter arrived. If the Kings missed the playoffs in 2012 (and they were outside with Murray), everyone would have been fired then.

 

[HookKing]

I think the implication here is that if they did indeed stop DL from letting Sutter go after '15, then they meddled in a decision made by the architect of a team that just won two cups in four seasons.

If they got in the way of DL while he was still, generally, riding high then what can be expected moving forward?

For the record, I don't believe that DL was going to fire Sutter after '15 so it is a moot point except for the "How much will AEG meddle going forward" concern.

Its their team, they can "meddle" all they want. Had they not "meddled" in 2012 we probably don't even have 1 cup much less two.

 

[BigKing]

Oh, I don't think Sutter should have been fired after '15 and it is only with the benefit of hindsight two seasons later that anyone can say it should have happened.

As for "its their team and they can meddle all they want", I'm not saying they can't do whatever they want since they own the thing. What many of us are worried about, however, is that the only time this team did anything is when they supposedly got out of the way and let a hockey guy come in and build the thing from the ground up. When AEG was pulling strings with Taylor, we got one playoff series win and Jeremy Roenick.

Also not sure about "meddling" and 2012. Is the story we are going with that AEG forced the firing of Terry Murray? Even if so, I doubt that AEG stepped in and said "Fire him and then hire Sutter".

 

[KingsFan7824]

Oh, I don't think Sutter should have been fired after '15 and it is only with the benefit of hindsight two seasons later that anyone can say it should have happened.

As for "its their team and they can meddle all they want", I'm not saying they can't do whatever they want since they own the thing. What many of us are worried about, however, is that the only time this team did anything is when they supposedly got out of the way and let a hockey guy come in and build the thing from the ground up. When AEG was pulling strings with Taylor, we got one playoff series win and Jeremy Roenick.

Also not sure about "meddling" and 2012. Is the story we are going with that AEG forced the firing of Terry Murray? Even if so, I doubt that AEG stepped in and said "Fire him and then hire Sutter".

Most of that was also in a no cap league.

 

[HookKing]

Oh, I don't think Sutter should have been fired after '15 and it is only with the benefit of hindsight two seasons later that anyone can say it should have happened.

As for "its their team and they can meddle all they want", I'm not saying they can't do whatever they want since they own the thing. What many of us are worried about, however, is that the only time this team did anything is when they supposedly got out of the way and let a hockey guy come in and build the thing from the ground up. When AEG was pulling strings with Taylor, we got one playoff series win and Jeremy Roenick.

Also not sure about "meddling" and 2012. Is the story we are going with that AEG forced the firing of Terry Murray? Even if so, I doubt that AEG stepped in and said "Fire him and then hire Sutter".

Lieweke forced DL to fire TM. I published the link years ago feel free to look it up. Sometimes the "boss" is right.

 

[BigKing]

KF7824 - The fact they were in a no cap league and had the roster they did is really sad. They've spent to the top since success came along but what a clown store pre-lockout/Lombardi.

Hook- I tried finding the article but I can't. Regardless, I'm not saying that it isn't true, just that I didn't know it was gospel that AEG forced it instead of Lombardi realizing they needed a change or his job was in jeopardy as well.

What I will say about "the boss being right" sometimes is that a broken clock is right twice a day as well. Even in this instance, Sutter was DL's guy and that decision was on him.

Of course, Lombardi didn't even have the W-L record of a broken clock the last three seasons so AEG probably couldn't have done any worse. My concern, of course, is that the era of Lieweekly and AEG running the team like **** pales in comparison to the best of the supposed "hands off era".

Not saying we are back to that, but it feels a lot more like that period in time than when DL was running the show. Have to have faith in Blake which, of course, I have absolutely none of as I will not less this guy burn me again.

 

[KingTrouty]

This is why sometimes when people say "is it too much to ask for us to have been competitive for much longer?" my response is "kinda yes, yes it is." Like, do you prefer to be the team that's always in the playoffs and more often than not out before the end of the second round? Or the team that goes Cup-WCF-Cup before hovering around the bubble? Sutter gets it. Two Cups, especially with the Blackhawks prime running concurrently, is ****ing hard. And part of why I don't give two ***** about what the rebuild looks like because we've seen 40 years of it here before and it took Edmonton a decade of doing what some people are asking here to even have a prayer of trying to do what we've done. Odds are likely we've seen the best era of Kings hockey ever, Blake et. al. have a hard act to follow.

Rocky, for whatever it's worth, what a hell of a post

 

[KingTrouty]

I'm of this line of thinking. I read a lot of how in 5 seasons, the Kings went from the top of the heap to some ridiculous hyperbole of being in disastrous shape or something of the like now. Well, as fans, in 5 seasons we went from being loyal, knowledgeable fans who deserved something to cheer about to being spoiled mother****ers. I mean, to each his own. Be as salty as you want about the current state of the franchise, but I personally can't go off the deep end myself when I have 2 replica Stanley Cups on my work desk and 2 championship banners hanging from my banisters.

My brother, a tear has welled up in the corner of my eye after reading this. A tear of joy. Absolutely on point, my boi. ****ing gem of a post, brudda.

 

[HookKing]

KF7824 - The fact they were in a no cap league and had the roster they did is really sad. They've spent to the top since success came along but what a clown store pre-lockout/Lombardi.

Hook- I tried finding the article but I can't. Regardless, I'm not saying that it isn't true, just that I didn't know it was gospel that AEG forced it instead of Lombardi realizing they needed a change or his job was in jeopardy as well.

What I will say about "the boss being right" sometimes is that a broken clock is right twice a day as well. Even in this instance, Sutter was DL's guy and that decision was on him.

Of course, Lombardi didn't even have the W-L record of a broken clock the last three seasons so AEG probably couldn't have done any worse. My concern, of course, is that the era of Lieweekly and AEG running the team like **** pales in comparison to the best of the supposed "hands off era".

Not saying we are back to that, but it feels a lot more like that period in time than when DL was running the show. Have to have faith in Blake which, of course, I have absolutely none of as I will not less this guy burn me again.

fyi
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/24/sports/la-sp-elliott-kings-leiweke-20120425

 

[KingsCourt]

The Hawks might go out in the first round....Again.

I can see Bowman getting fired, if the Hawks get swept.

I don't see it.. Maybe if the lose this year in 1st and don't make the playoffs next year... Even then I would doubt it

 

[CanadianKingsFan14]

Looks like the Kings have interest in Jim Montgomrey as head coach.

https://twitter.com/mayorNHL/status/854100642494783488