GWT: Champions League - League Stage

[gary69]

Makeshift CB Tchouameni causes a last minute PK, which De Ketalaere confidently converts.

PSG fighting for a playoff-spot as they led 1-0 at half-time, Barcola and Hakimi combined to provide Ramos chance to put the ball in from few inches.

 

[gary69]

Vini and Bellingham score in quick succession as Real are heading towards a win after an hour.

 

[Live in the Now]

Great goal by Lookman. Was about to turn this game off.

 

[gary69]

After ball bouncing around in the penalty area, Mukiele scores a 90th minute goal to put Leverkusen 1-0 ahead over Inter.

Terrible miss by Retegui, he had a open net in front of him.

 

[Live in the Now]

Retegui just missed the equalizer while literally standing two feet in front of the net.

 

[Power Man]

Mofo is finally playing better and...

We may get our chemistry back lol

 

[Evilo]

Wow Brest!
Another miracle win and they're now through for at least the playoffs and very possible top 8.

 

[gary69]

PSG won clearly in the end, 3-0. Hakimi with a MOTM performance, couple of assists. Doue also did well after coming on, goal and an assist for him.

 

[Albatros]

RB Leipzig the first team to be eliminated in this new format.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

We may get our chemistry back lol

Or lose what we gained in the last 2 games.

This season sucks so much so far.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Or lose what we gained in the last 2 games.

This season sucks so much so far.

I’m sorry my friend but it’s been to long since I can enjoy Madrid losing. I may choke on my own laughter.

 

[gary69]

Musiala was ridiculously good again today, wish his great volley goal hadn't been disallowed (Tel prevented the keeper from moving freely in a corner situation).

Olise wasn't bad either as Bayern trashed Shakhtar 5-1.

 

[Savi]

Huge win for Brugge against Sporting who have lost their mojo

10 points now you gotta think that will be enough for at least top 24

 

[gary69]

Yeah, Sporting are in free fall since Amorim left. Fourth loss in a row. (in the league & CL).

Not sure if Tzolis deserved to be sent off near the end of 1st half, he clearly lead his jump with an elbow into Quaresma's throat. Maybe Tzolis was saved that in the clash of heads he suffered also, with a bleeding cut. But Quaresma certainly got the worst of it, lots of blood poured out. He was treated on the pitch for 10 mins and then had to be subbed of dazed/confused with wobbling feet.

The tall guy Nilsson and Nielsen were good subs for Brugge, though Skov Olsen, who was replaced, did well too, creating the first goal.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I’m sorry my friend but it’s been to long since I can enjoy Madrid losing. I may choke on my own laughter.

Be careful not to also choke on your tears. Barca kinda sucks right now.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Be careful not to also choke on your tears. Barca kinda sucks right now.

Anyone but Madrid

 

[Corto]

Dinamo Zagreb under Bjelica keeps playing the most negative and unwatchable football in Europe.
Yes, there's a ton of injuries to key player, but there was zero positivity to their game, zero desire to play football... Play for a 0-0 and hope you maybe luck into a goal.
Celtic not much better.
They (Dinamo) will get soundly beaten by Arsenal away, and will then have to play for a win in the last round vs Milan (hopefully with at least 3-4 starters back in the team).
For anyone who cares lol.

Watched the Atalanta - RM game as well.
RM could've put the game away a few times, but Atalanta missed a sitter at the end.
Overall, I guess a fair result, RM just turned it up a notch when needed.
Atalanta still an impressive team, and has been for 5-6 years now - but now they finally seem consistent enough to challenge for Serie A. I'll be rooting for them.

 

[cgf]

Girona and Stuttgart's rankings are highly not representative of their strength and you know it.

Keep reading:

PSG got screwed by playing 1 more match against a top 20 team than Bayern or Dinamo...though they do play #21 Milan...and by facing 2 teams from big leagues that just don't have a european track record (VFB & Girona), instead of just 1 like Bayern (Villa).

But that happened under the old format too. Was Newcastle a 4th tier team when they got drawn with BVB & PSG last year? Of course not. But this is a problem with the way UEFA ranks teams without recent european pedigree, not with either format.

 

[cgf]

In the old format, lets take BVB and PSG as an example.

BVB was seeded in pot 2 and PSG in pot 1.

A difficult group would be something like (2023 group):
PSG
BVB
Italian team who finished 4th or something (lets say AC Milan)
Some stray from the top-4 leagues who got into the CL for the first time in years (lets say Newcastle)

Now, it's a difficult group, but the bottom line is you only have to beat the teams in your group on points to go through. You have a difficult draw, but all the teams in your group have the exact same fixtures. You will either go through - or not - based entirely on your merit.

What the current draw does is:
BVB - RM, Barca, Brugge, Celtic, Shakhar, Dinamo, Bologna, Sturm.
PSG - Bayern, City, Atleti, Arsenal, Salzburg, PSV, Girona, Stuttgart.

So one team has the most difficult draw in the league, and the other has one of the easiest.
But the point total is still what counts, regardless of who you play against.
It is NOT a competition in the same environment.

Why does it bother me, as a neutral, aside from a bloated number of games that a large majority of people don't watch or have no interest in?
Cause in the next round, the KO round, which is supposed to be more competitive, based PURELY on the fixture list, we'll have some very mid/shoddy teams in the there. Like my Dinamo Zagreb, who isn't only mid, but utterly wrecked by injuries - yet if they somehow beat Celtic, they're through.
Only to be massacred by a team like City in an utterly boring and lopsided tie.

In no world, not in any, way, shape or form, is Dinamo ZG better than PSG.
But they may end up ahead of them based purely on the fixtures.

Again, in my mind, any league competition is only fair if everyone plays everyone.

Anyway, not trying to chance anyone's mind, you trying to explain my POV,

Thanks for explaining yourself, I do genuinely appreciate the good faith discussion. I guess I still don't understand why you're focusing on teams within the same group.

To me the most fundamentally unfair part of the old format was the group draw, sure each team within the group played the same schedule, but a team in one group could have a much easier path than a team in another group just because of the luck of the draw.

So the comparison to make isn't between teams in the same group, but between teams in a group of death, and teams in a soft group.

PSG & Dortmund had the same chances of advancing as anyone in their group, but two of PSG / BVB / Milan / Newcastle were guaranteed to be out even if all 4 played perfect football while two of Sociedad / Inter / Benfica / Salzburg and two of Atletico / Lazio / Feyenoord / Celtic were guaranteed to advance even if all 8 played like complete s***

So Dortmund, Milan, and Newcastle had worse odds of advancing than a bunch of teams that they were better than.

 

[Evilo]

The fact you are up against teams that don't have the same schedule is a problem.
How can anyone deny for instance that Brest has a much easier schedule then PSG even though they're pot 4?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

The fact you are up against teams that don't have the same schedule is a problem.
How can anyone deny for instance that Brest has a much easier schedule then PSG even though they're pot 4?

In the old system teams got put in harder groups sometimes. No system is perfect

 

[hatterson]

The group stage isn't meant to be equal but it's long enough that you can at least make the knockout rounds if you play to your potential even with a tough draw. PSG has played way under their potential and is still in position to make the knockouts unless they fall on their face in the last two weeks.

 

[Evilo]

In the old system teams got put in harder groups sometimes. No system is perfect

Where teams would all have the same chance to go through since they faced the same teams.

 

[Savant]

I’m with Evilo on this one. It’s too unbalanced if Pot 4 teams are getting harder schedules than Pot 1 teams, if it’s not all contained in the same group.

The “easy” fix for that is you give Pot 1 teams an easier draw where they get one less Pot 2 or 3 team so they can get an extra Pot 4 team (which gives you incentive to be in Pot 1), but ironically I’m unsure the owners of the Pot 1 teams would sign up for one less marquee game that they could sell tickets too; so that could get stalled out as well.

I want to know if in the future there is going to be any incentive to finish first in this stage. Obviously the easiest way to miss top 8 would be to go for 8th place, but I feel like whoever finishes first should probably get…something?

 

[hatterson]

I’m with Evilo on this one. It’s too unbalanced if Pot 4 teams are getting harder schedules than Pot 1 teams, if it’s not all contained in the same group.

The “easy” fix for that is you give Pot 1 teams an easier draw where they get one less Pot 2 or 3 team so they can get an extra Pot 4 team (which gives you incentive to be in Pot 1), but ironically I’m unsure the owners of the Pot 1 teams would sign up for one less marquee game that they could sell tickets too; so that could get stalled out as well.

I want to know if in the future there is going to be any incentive to finish first in this stage. Obviously the easiest way to miss top 8 would be to go for 8th place, but I feel like whoever finishes first should probably get…something?

It's a fairly standard bracket but with draws providing some randomness.