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GWT: Champions League - League Stage

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Duchene2MacKinnon said:
Idk how anyone can watch Madrid and say they deserved that win after rope a doping for 90 mins+.
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against City?

totally deserved
not our problem if De Bruyne missed a sitter or Bernardo passed the ball to Lunin

Winners win, losers complain (looking at you
Rodri)

cgf said:
Just cause you're not going to add anyone to the roster doesn't mean you won't spend on getting better results in the second half of the season :sarcasm:
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oh we’ll spend


Carlo knows it


 
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JoVel said:
The two best teams most often went through, yes, but often the 3rd in group X was better than the 2nd in group Y. I don't see how that is really any different to what we have now.
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The difference is you play those teams and if you get less points, it's on you.

In the current ridiculous format, my boys from Dinamo Zagreb could finish ahead of PSG based simply on the draw. PSG basically has no easy opponents and might have problems progressing simply because they had bad luck in the draw. Dinamo might go true cause they beat Slovan, Salzburg and have Celtic to go. They'd go through despite being utterly powerless against Bayern, BVB etc.
 
Corto said:
The difference is you play those teams and if you get less points, it's on you.

In the current ridiculous format, my boys from Dinamo Zagreb could finish ahead of PSG based simply on the draw. PSG basically has no easy opponents and might have problems progressing simply because they had bad luck in the draw. Dinamo might go true cause they beat Slovan, Salzburg and have Celtic to go. They'd go through despite being utterly powerless against Bayern, BVB etc.
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But that happened in the old system. If you had one group with no top teams and one group with 3 top teams, it was guaranteed that a top team would be playing EL while a weaker team advanced.
 
cgf said:
But that happened in the old system. If you had one group with no top teams and one group with 3 top teams, it was guaranteed that a top team would be playing EL while a weaker team advanced.
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No, you were 3rd if you had a worse record than the first 2 teams, while playing them twice, and playing the other SAME teams twice.

In this current format, it is entirely possibly (and actually very likely) that a team like Dinamo Zagreb beats 3 weak teams and ends up ahead of a serious top-4 leagues team based on schedule alone.
Trust me, Dinamo Zagreb should not be ahead of teams like PSG, RM (lol), Stuttgart, Feyenoord, etc.
 
Corto said:
No, you were 3rd if you had a worse record than the first 2 teams, while playing them twice, and playing the other SAME teams twice.

In this current format, it is entirely possibly (and actually very likely) that a team like Dinamo Zagreb beats 3 weak teams and ends up ahead of a serious top-4 leagues team based on schedule alone.
Trust me, Dinamo Zagreb should not be ahead of teams like PSG, RM (lol), Stuttgart, Feyenoord, etc.
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Right but if Zagreb had made it through the playoffs last season they could've ended up in a group with Feyenoord as the pot 1 team, Porto as the pot 2 team and Red Star Belgrade as the pot 3 team...none of those are meaningfully better than Salzburg or Monaco, who Dinamo got 4 pts from.

While there could have been a group of death with Bayern, Real, Milan/Shakhtar, and Newcastle; where one team that would've won that first group was guaranteed to be eliminated and another was guaranteed to play EL. Under the current system that's no longer possible.

The luck of the draw can screw you under either format, it's just a question of whether you get screwed by your schedule or your group. And the current format seems more forgiving to the top teams unless you just pull a Leipzig :laugh:
 
Shakhtar's goalkeeper Tverdovski just lost his father, the latest victim of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. RIP
 
Evilo said:
Lol at bad faith...
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I was being hyperbolic, but it was not uncommon for one group to send a team to the EL that was more talented and played better football than a team who advanced from a weaker group. That was a clear issue with the previous model despite all of the tweaking they did to the draw. So giving this new model a chance to tweak its scheduling doesn't seem insane to me.

Plus there's still tons of time, Leipzig might be buried, but Real / PSG / Stuttgart / etc. still have plenty of time to secure their place in the next round. So it's a little early to be clutching our pearls about Dinamo advancing ahead of any of them.
 
cgf said:
Right but if Zagreb had made it through the playoffs last season they could've ended up in a group with Feyenoord as the pot 1 team, Porto as the pot 2 team and Red Star Belgrade as the pot 3 team...none of those are meaningfully better than Salzburg or Monaco, who Dinamo got 4 pts from.

While there could have been a group of death with Bayern, Real, Milan/Shakhtar, and Newcastle; where one team that would've won that first group was guaranteed to be eliminated and another was guaranteed to play EL. Under the current system that's no longer possible.

The luck of the draw can screw you under either format, it's just a question of whether you get screwed by your schedule or your group. And the current format seems more forgiving to the top teams unless you just pull a Leipzig :laugh:
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It's comparing apples and oranges though.

Whatever happened with the draw in the old format, you played exactly the same opposition as all the other teams in your group.

PSG might be in a group with BVB, Inter and RB Salzburg, and City with Bologna, Dinamo and Slovan - but in their respective groups, if PSG lost out, it was cause they did worse against the same opponents.
Any team losing out can't complain, they had the same environment as everyone else in the group.

In the current system, Dinamo (this is just an example) could end up ahead of PSG without ever facing the same opposition. PSG barely has a "weak" game on their schedule.
Dinamo has Slovan, Salzburg and a winnable Celtic game. Doesn't matter that they get destroyed 9-2 or routinely beat by BVB... They will also likely concede 3-5 goals vs Arsenal and Milan as well.
But because this is basically a league table, points against sh*t teams count as much as points against the top team - which is fine.
What is NOT fine, is that one team plays only top teams and another plays 3-5 games vs sh*t teams.

If you're comparing the old system, it's be like a group of PSG, Inter, BVB and Salzburg - but BVB (for example) only has to play Inter and plays 4 games vs Slovan and Sturm Graz.

Anyway... I dislike it, just trying to explain why I (personally) dislike it.
Entirely fair if someone else prefers it.
 
Given that you need ~9 points in 8 matches to advance I don't think anyone gets to blame the schedule too much if they don't.
 
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Corto said:
It's comparing apples and oranges though.

Whatever happened with the draw in the old format, you played exactly the same opposition as all the other teams in your group.

PSG might be in a group with BVB, Inter and RB Salzburg, and City with Bologna, Dinamo and Slovan - but in their respective groups, if PSG lost out, it was cause they did worse against the same opponents.
Any team losing out can't complain, they had the same environment as everyone else in the group.

In the current system, Dinamo (this is just an example) could end up ahead of PSG without ever facing the same opposition. PSG barely has a "weak" game on their schedule.
Dinamo has Slovan, Salzburg and a winnable Celtic game. Doesn't matter that they get destroyed 9-2 or routinely beat by BVB... They will also likely concede 3-5 goals vs Arsenal and Milan as well.
But because this is basically a league table, points against sh*t teams count as much as points against the top team - which is fine.
What is NOT fine, is that one team plays only top teams and another plays 3-5 games vs sh*t teams.

If you're comparing the old system, it's be like a group of PSG, Inter, BVB and Salzburg - but BVB (for example) only has to play Inter and plays 4 games vs Slovan and Sturm Graz.

Anyway... I dislike it, just trying to explain why I (personally) dislike it.
Entirely fair if someone else prefers it.
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But the draw screwed teams with the schedule as well. If the concern is a weaker team taking advantage of an easier schedule to advance ahead of better teams

…that happened any team there was a group of death. The teams in the group of death would have to play 4 games against other teams to advance, while a weaker team in a softer group could advance without playing any games against top teams.

Not saying they don’t to work on the way they balance schedules, but this system does seem more fair than the old one.
 
Duchene2MacKinnon said:
It’s the same story with psg almost every year.
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I wonder why...
Toughest :

champions-league-toughest-draw-2024-25-2048x1524.jpg



Easiest :
champions-league-easiest-draw-2024-25.jpg
 
It’s a lot of fancy stats just to tell me they weren’t good enough. They have the easiest league to play in amongst the big boys and can rest their players without much of an issue. To win the CL you will need to beat the best of the best at some point.
 
They've also still got games against Salzburg and Stuttgart. If they win those like they should, they're almost for sure in the knockouts even with a loss to City.
 
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