GWT: Champions League - League Stage

[Evilo]

They've also still got games against Salzburg and Stuttgart. If they win those like they should, they're almost for sure in the knockouts even with a loss to City.

Sure, but what then? Bayern?

It’s a lot of fancy stats just to tell me they weren’t good enough. They have the easiest league to play in amongst the big boys and can rest their players without much of an issue. To win the CL you will need to beat the best of the best at some point.

Look, a fan of the 4th easiest schedule comes out blasting !
Given the CL results this year, I'd say L1 is among the toughest leagues...

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Sure, but what then? Bayern?


Look, a fan of the 4th easiest schedule comes out blasting !
Given the CL results this year, I'd say L1 is among the toughest leagues...

Like I care. What league is better. PSG is not going to get any sympathy they are one of the teams that have infinite money and outspend their opponents in their league by a vast amount. If they can’t get it done in the only competition that can match them financially and on talent it’s their fault.

Barca had a horrible group a couple of seasons ago with inter Milan they couldn’t get out of the group stage. It happens

 

[Evilo]

Like I care. What league is better. PSG is not going to get any sympathy they are one of the teams that have infinite money and outspend their opponents in their league by a vast amount. If they can’t get it done in the only competition that can match them financially and on talent it’s their fault.

Barca had a horrible group a couple of seasons ago with inter Milan they couldn’t get out of the group stage. It happens

I don't care that you care. It was your whole f***ing miserable point.
Who asks for sympathy? We're asking for fairness in the format. Went way over your hear apparently.
If PSG is the word that sinks your judgment, maybe simply look that Sparta Prague has an awful calendar while Celtic as the easiest. How fair is it?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I don't care that you care. It was your whole f***ing miserable point.
Who asks for sympathy? We're asking for fairness in the format. Went way over your hear apparently.
If PSG is the word that sinks your judgment, maybe simply look that Sparta Prague has an awful calendar while Celtic as the easiest. How fair is it?

My point is that it’s every year I hear the same thing with psg. Either win or fold lol. Btw Qatar inc might sell soon from what I recently saw.

 

[hatterson]

Sure, but what then? Bayern?


Look, a fan of the 4th easiest schedule comes out blasting !
Given the CL results this year, I'd say L1 is among the toughest leagues...

If you want a better knockout match then don't lose every single game you have against pot 1 and 2 teams and draw a pot 3 team.

 

[Evilo]

My point is that it’s every year I hear the same thing with psg. Either win or fold lol. Btw Qatar inc might sell soon from what I recently saw.

I hope they do.
But yeah PSG has been screwed by draws year after year.
Heck they haven't been screwed twice. Last year (reached the semis and should have beaten BVB) and the year they reached the final.

If you want a better knockout match then don't lose every single game you have against pot 1 and 2 teams and draw a pot 3 team.

Or get a better draw.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Shoulda woulda coulda but didn’t that’s psg

 

[Evilo]

High level argument. Kudos.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

High level argument. Kudos.

I call it like I see it.

 

[Corto]

I'm not even sure why people are arguing here, like it's Twitch chat.

All I was saying is that I don't like it, cause of how open it is to have the same tier teams play very different draws.

RM plays 7/8 teams from the top-4 leagues, for example.
PSG plays 6/8 + PSV.
etc.

Then you have Bayern play 3/8 games vs teams from the top-4 leagues.
Or BVB also 3/8. And it's not like they play teams from Portugal or Holland outside of the top-4 leagues either. Dinamo ZG, Shakthar, Brugge, Celtic, Sturm. And Bologna from Italy btw.

Compare that to PSG's schedule and it's a joke.

I mean, II'm far from a PSG fan... But their schedule is ridiculous and some other clubs have it at the other end of the spectrum.

Why do I care, as a neutral?

Cause PSG is still a good team and they can put up a fight against anyone. They can beat anyone on any given night.
Having them out cause of the schedule and Dinamo ZG go through, only to watch Dinamo ZG hammered 10-1 on aggregate in the next round by Bayern or someone... Doesn't exactly excite me as a netrual.

 

[JoVel]

RM plays 7/8 teams from the top-4 leagues, for example.
PSG plays 6/8 + PSV.
etc.

Then you have Bayern play 3/8 games vs teams from the top-4 leagues.
Or BVB also 3/8. And it's not like they play teams from Portugal or Holland outside of the top-4 leagues either. Dinamo ZG, Shakthar, Brugge, Celtic, Sturm. And Bologna from Italy btw.

Why is this different to last year, when PSG played 6/6 games against the top 4 leagues, while a number of teams played 2/6, or Barca even 0/6?

 

[cgf]

Why is this different to last year, when PSG played 6/6 games against the top 4 leagues, while a number of teams played 2/6, or Barca even 0/6?

Yeah, this is why I just don't understand the argument. We saw weaker teams advance ahead of stronger teams most years just because of the luck of the draw. It's not ideal if that happens again...but it's less likely under the current model than the old one.

 

[cgf]

So here are the schedules for Bayern, Dinamo, PSG, & Dortmund organized by UEFA club ranking.

Bayern (34.75 AVG Ranking):

3x Top 20: PSG (6), Barcelona (12), Benfica (14)
3x 20-50: Feyenoord (29), Zagreb (38), Shakhtar (43)
2x over 50: Slo Bratislava (67), Villa (69)


Zagreb (35.5 AVG Ranking):

3x Top 20: Bayern (3), Dortmund (7), Arsenal (19)
2x 20-50: Milan (21), Salzburg (45)
3x over 50: Monaco (58), Celtic (64), Bratislava (67)


PSG (39.25 AVG Ranking):

4x Top 20: City (1), Bayern (3), Athletico (16), Arsenal (19)
2x 20-50: PSV (32), Salzburg (45)
2x over 50: Girona (95), Stuttgart (103)


BVB (46.75 AVG Ranking):

2x Top 20: Real (2), Barcelona (12)
3x 20-50: Brugge (24), Dinamo Zagreb (38), Shakhtar (43)
3x over 50: Celtic (64), Bologna (91), Sturm Graz (100)


PSG got screwed by playing 1 more match against a top 20 team than Bayern or Dinamo...though they do play #21 Milan...and by facing 2 teams from big leagues that just don't have a european track record (VFB & Girona), instead of just 1 like Bayern (Villa).

...but if facing City, PSV, Stuttgart & Girona instead of Milan, Monaco, Celtic & Bratislava is the reason Zagreb cracks the top 24 but PSG can't, then PSG don't deserve to advance ahead of Dinamo.


Dortmund did get a very soft schedule this year...but Atletico got one under the old format last season, playing 6 matches with Lazio, Feyenoord, & Celtic; while BVB had to go through PSG, Newcastle, and Milan, before they even started their run to the Final.

 

[cgf]

I'm not even sure why people are arguing here, like it's Twitch chat.

Evilo & D2M are just bickering because they know Nagelsmann & Wirtziala are leading us to a 5th star in 2026

...but I'm not trying to argue. I'm genuinely trying to understand where you're coming from and why this bothers you more than teams getting screwed under the old format.

Yes every team had an equal chance within their group, but unbalanced groups meant that teams didn't have equal chances to advance from group to group.

For example, just last year the draw guaranteed that two of PSG, Dortmund, Milan, and Newcastle would be out after the group stages while two of Atletico, Lazio, Feyenoord, and Celtic would advance.

PSG did have an equal chance of advancing to BVB / Milan / Newcastle, but they all had lower chances of advancing than Atletic / Lazio / Feyenoord / Celtic because of the luck of the draw, ya know?

 

[Evilo]

Girona and Stuttgart's rankings are highly not representative of their strength and you know it.

 

[Corto]

...but I'm not trying to argue. I'm genuinely trying to understand where you're coming from and why this bothers you more than teams getting screwed under the old format.

In the old format, lets take BVB and PSG as an example.

BVB was seeded in pot 2 and PSG in pot 1.

A difficult group would be something like (2023 group):
PSG
BVB
Italian team who finished 4th or something (lets say AC Milan)
Some stray from the top-4 leagues who got into the CL for the first time in years (lets say Newcastle)

Now, it's a difficult group, but the bottom line is you only have to beat the teams in your group on points to go through. You have a difficult draw, but all the teams in your group have the exact same fixtures. You will either go through - or not - based entirely on your merit.

What the current draw does is:
BVB - RM, Barca, Brugge, Celtic, Shakhar, Dinamo, Bologna, Sturm.
PSG - Bayern, City, Atleti, Arsenal, Salzburg, PSV, Girona, Stuttgart.

So one team has the most difficult draw in the league, and the other has one of the easiest.
But the point total is still what counts, regardless of who you play against.
It is NOT a competition in the same environment.

Why does it bother me, as a neutral, aside from a bloated number of games that a large majority of people don't watch or have no interest in?
Cause in the next round, the KO round, which is supposed to be more competitive, based PURELY on the fixture list, we'll have some very mid/shoddy teams in the there. Like my Dinamo Zagreb, who isn't only mid, but utterly wrecked by injuries - yet if they somehow beat Celtic, they're through.
Only to be massacred by a team like City in an utterly boring and lopsided tie.

In no world, not in any, way, shape or form, is Dinamo ZG better than PSG.
But they may end up ahead of them based purely on the fixtures.

Again, in my mind, any league competition is only fair if everyone plays everyone.

Anyway, not trying to chance anyone's mind, you trying to explain my POV,

 

[Albatros]

We have 24/36 teams advancing, you can finish 24th in the league phase and still can win the whole thing. Last years City played Copenhagen (6:2), Leipzig (8:1), Sporting (5:0) and Mönchengladbach (4:0) in the round of 16 so if they now play Dinamo Zagreb one round earlier then I don't really feel strongly about that.

 

[Power Man]

 

[ScottishCanuck]

I find the big hitters suddenly complaining about unfairness amusing.

It's a random draw. Deal with it and stop whining.

 

[Corto]

I find the big hitters suddenly complaining about unfairness amusing.

It's a random draw. Deal with it and stop whining.

I'm not sure anyone complained. Out of the clubs, players and executives, managers etc.

I'm just saying that from my personal fan perspective, I liked the old format more.

"Deal with it and stop whining" is a bit contrary to what sports message boards are about.

Also, Celtic got THE best draw, so easier to "deal with it" that way I suppose.

 

[Savant]

Alisson Becker starts for LFC today.

 

[gary69]

Now after the Salah goal, Girona needs to open up and start to play more instead of just bunkering, if they want any points.

 

[Savant]

Now after the Salah goal, Girona needs to open up and start to play more instead of just bunkering, if they want any points.

Girona did not get any points.

LFC 6 games, 6 wins. First team to clinch the bye Matchweek

 

[gary69]

Hey, successful move, ball control and goal from Mbappe in a central position. Hasn't succeeded much in RM at this type of play before.

That was Mbappe's 50th goal in the CL, second youngest behind Messi to reach that number.

Well, the joy didn't last long, as Mbappe is subbed out injured after 35 mins, replaced by Rodrygo.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Mofo is finally playing better and...