Proposal: CGY Kadri for CAR Kotkaniemi+

Chet Manley

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if there ever was a post that missed everything said, here it is.
Your first post was him being too old in the near future so automatic pass. Aka near future fit isn't worth taking that risk. Even with the ask being a cap dump and some crumbs. I'd personally hate this trade as it would turn the Canes into contenders and remove the Flames from mediocrity. So pretty please don't do it.
 
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Nikishin Go Boom

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Your first post was him being too old in the near future so automatic pass. Aka near future fit isn't worth taking that risk. Even with the ask being a cap dump and some crumbs. I'd personally hate this trade as it would turn the Canes into contenders and remove the Flames from mediocrity. So pretty please don't do it.
The only near future is next season after that its 3 seasons of downward production. But that has nothing to do with us “not wanting to improve our cup chances.”
 
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theVladiator

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The way I see it, worst case scenario is that last 2-3 years of Kadri's contract will need to be bought out. Kotkaniemi needs to be bought out today. Basically, the costs of the two buyouts are pretty much the same, and that's considering Kadri's worst case scenario (IMO). The only reason I do not take this deal as Canes is if I can't find a way to fit Kadri under the cap today, not because of his age.
 

Blueline Bomber

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The way I see it, worst case scenario is that last 2-3 years of Kadri's contract will need to be bought out. Kotkaniemi needs to be bought out today. Basically, the costs of the two buyouts are pretty much the same, and that's considering Kadri's worst case scenario (IMO). The only reason I do not take this deal as Canes is if I can't find a way to fit Kadri under the cap today, not because of his age.

The buyout of Kotkaniemi would be 870k, the buyout of Kadri would be 2.2 mil. In what world is that “pretty much the same”?

This topic is hilarious.

Calgary fans: Here’s a trade proposal for Kadri
Canes fans: No thanks. Management wouldn’t do it, doesn’t fit their MO.
Calgary fans: Fine, we’ll keep him! He’s still good!
Canes fans: Ok, do that. We didn’t make the proposal.
Calgary fans: But he’d make your team better!
Canes fans: Maybe, but it’s too risky for management.

Repeat for 8 pages
 

bleedgreen

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There's only one buyout candidate in this proposal and it's not the Stanley Cup winning 75pt center.

I mean I get HF hates all things Nazem Kadri but seriously, it's a little much.
Between posts like this and people making fun of us for being agist, this has become one of the more fascinating Canes threads in a long time.

No one hates Kadri here. I’m sure there’s been a negative post in here about him but Canes fans haven’t been against him in this thread. It’s purely the contract. Kadri would help the Canes next year, no one doubts that. That’s the whole point. People keep pointing how great he’s been in his early 30’s. Is that a surprise? Isn’t to me. Of course he’s going to be good the first half of the contract. He’s a pretty player still.

Look at Trocheck who left at 29, who is righty (which we’ve publicly said we need), was a guy RBA trusted in all situations and was very popular in the room. He’s a very similar player. He left for a 7 year deal for 5.6 which was only about a million dollar raise. We made little attempt to keep him because of the contract. Which goes in line with what we do over and over. We don’t sign these ufa contracts, especially for older players. The only exception was for Guentzel who clearly was the right player for one, he was a perfect linemate for Aho and just made sense to take a chance. We still wouldn’t go over our offer which was less than 8x8, period. We let our prize trade acquisition go because it was over our line.

We would never trade for Kadri. As fans we like the player but we know our management would never do this. We don’t have cap space for it. Some of us would take the chance maybe with the contract, most of us wouldn’t. I wouldn’t and I like Kadri.

KK isn’t an issue. We still have two years to buy him out cheap and he’s got a great opportunity in front of him with our reset. We don’t need help with Kk.
 
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BlueSeal

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Kadri has been suspended how many times, 6? 7? That kind of contributes to folks eyeing him and seeing the skillsets but not wanting the possibility of trouble and that greatly decreases value. Folks even talked about rumors that he was a pain in the lockerroom, how much of that is true, who knows. Leafs fans were talking about him costing them playoff series. If that's true, it's understandable why folks are lowballing him.
 

MacMacandBarbie

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Are the Canes willing to ship back what Calgary will ask for him? Probably not.
Haha not sure how I confused Calgary and Kadri. I don't think Kadri can be a 2C on a cup winning team anymore. Its not 2022 anymore, and he fit really well into the avalanche system in a way I don't think he would fit in Carolina.

Just my .02 cents.
 

BlueSeal

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Haha not sure how I confused Calgary and Kadri. I don't think Kadri can be a 2C on a cup winning team anymore. Its not 2022 anymore, and he fit really well into the avalanche system in a way I don't think he would fit in Carolina.

Just my .02 cents.
I must have misunderstood your previous posts because I agree with you.
 

Ledge And Dairy

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If age regression wasnt a thing, you would be right. I can also say a claim that it isn’t right is also baseless, are you a time traveler
Huh? I'm not claiming anything. You are the one making a comment about his future like it is fact. Players break the age curve all the time. Pavelski put up a near PPG right up until this most recent season. On the other hand Subban fell off a cliff as soon as he hit 30.
 

theVladiator

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The buyout of Kotkaniemi would be 870k, the buyout of Kadri would be 2.2 mil. In what world is that “pretty much the same”?

One is 0.87M for 10years (plus shelling out 4.8M for the 24/25 season, at least half of it is waste). The other 2.2M for 6 years, or 2.3M for 4 years.
 

Blueline Bomber

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One is 0.87M for 10years (plus shelling out 4.8M for the 24/25 season, at least half of it is waste). The other 2.2M for 6 years, or 2.3M for 4 years.

But you can see why a team would much rather have the .87 cap hit after the buyout than the 2.2/2.3, right?
 

theVladiator

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But you can see why a team would much rather have the .87 cap hit after the buyout than the 2.2/2.3, right?

My point was that the buyouts are close enough not to matter, when the main appeal for the Canes would be a major upgrade at C.

What's your point again?
 

bleedgreen

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My point was that the buyouts are close enough not to matter, when the main appeal for the Canes would be a major upgrade at C.

What's your point again?
How are the buyouts close enough?!?

Less than one million vs well over two million is the cost of a player that could make a difference. Or the difference between you giving a guy you’re trying to keep a contract or him going to market. Saying that doesn’t matter is pretty delusional. I do not understand Flames fans in this thread. If he’s such under appreciated asset for the love of god keep him. You trying to tell us we’re fools for not thinking it’s worth it is hf gold.

I get it. You’re stuck with Huberdeau. You’re going to need the cap space relatively soon so “let’s move Kadri while he’s worth something….he had a good season!!!”. So I get the desire to fight for his trade value, but everyone had a chance to sign him. No one would pay as much as you did. Now that we’re a few years into that contract it’s even less of a value, you’ve had some of the best years that contract will be worth. Even if you could convince us….which you can’t….Flames fans are not acknowledging the way the Canes do business at all despite Canes fans explaining it over and over. Canes do it different, for better or worse. They’re not going to see the value here, and in this case I’m not surprised or really complaining.

If the Flames had to get rid of him and were retaining and didn’t want quality back then the Canes would probably call. That’s not what this thread is, this thread is we’re giving back a roster player and supposedly adding. They would never do it so trying to diminish the difference between the cap buyouts despite the obvious difference or telling us about how good he was this year doesn’t change anything.
 

le_sean

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This is a no-brainer for the Canes. They are trying to contend now. Of course you trade a nobody for a 75 point centre, regardless of age.
 

le_sean

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Regardless of contract?!? No one has a problem with Kadri this coming year.
Well that should be the priority. Ice the best team today, worry about any issues moving forward. We aren’t talking trading 3 1st round picks here.

The Canes were borderline contenders that tried to bolster their centre position by acquiring Kuznetsov ffs. Make a real move if you want to be taken seriously.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Well that should be the priority. Ice the best team today, worry about any issues moving forward. We aren’t talking trading 3 1st round picks here.

No, we're talking about being on the hook for $7 million for the next 5 years instead of $870k over the next 10. One of those allows the team a lot more flexibility with their roster than the other.

Again, if the Canes have an issue with KK, they can buy him out super cheaply. There's no reason to trade him for a contract that is MUCH more difficult to work around.
 

bleedgreen

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Well that should be the priority. Ice the best team today, worry about any issues moving forward. We aren’t talking trading 3 1st round picks here.
It’s a nice thought but most teams are going to consider the impact of long term contracts. The Canes are pretty clearly stepping back this year, and they aren’t a Kadri away from turning that around. It may be a couple of years before the Canes are back to truly being a contender vs just making the playoffs. The contract matters. The Canes don’t add these contracts in general anyways, which for some reason isn’t being acknowledged. Why would they add Kadri if they wouldn’t pay for Trocheck? Or any other ufa other than Slavin? They wouldn’t pay Hamilton, Trocheck, Nino, Skjei, Pesce, TT, Noesen, Guentzel to stay…..but they’re going to acquire Kadri?
 

Ledge And Dairy

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No, we're talking about being on the hook for $7 million for the next 5 years instead of $870k over the next 10. One of those allows the team a lot more flexibility with their roster than the other.

Again, if the Canes have an issue with KK, they can buy him out super cheaply. There's no reason to trade him for a contract that is MUCH more difficult to work around.
LMAO what? Cap "flexibility" is only useful if you have something to use it on. It is completely obvious that Carolina needs a top 6 center and Kadri clearly is one. Unless you are banking on Draisaitl hitting the market (which he almost certainly won't) you aren't going to be finding a better option any time soon. You are constantly talking about Kadri in a negative light in this thread as if he is a problem that has to be dealt with right away. He would come in and provide an instant upgrade to your roster for probably at least 2 years, then still be at least a middle 6 caliber center for another 2-3 years after that. If he does fall off (which no signs have pointed to yet) he NMC changes to a 13 team NTC in 2 years so he is absolutely moveable.

Also odds are if Kadri does end up falling off a cliff at some point he will probably just LTIRetire like most players seem to do now.
 

bleedgreen

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LMAO what? Cap "flexibility" is only useful if you have something to use it on. It is completely obvious that Carolina needs a top 6 center and Kadri clearly is one. Unless you are banking on Draisaitl hitting the market (which he almost certainly won't) you aren't going to be finding a better option any time soon. You are constantly talking about Kadri in a negative light in this thread as if he is a problem that has to be dealt with right away. He would come in and provide an instant upgrade to your roster for probably at least 2 years, then still be at least a middle 6 caliber center for another 2-3 years after that. If he does fall off (which no signs have pointed to yet) he NMC changes to a 13 team NTC in 2 years so he is absolutely moveable.

Also odds are if Kadri does end up falling off a cliff at some point he will probably just LTIRetire like most players seem to do now.
Sounds like a great plan for the Flames.
 

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