Confirmed Trade: [CGY/ARI] Michael Stone at 50% retained FOR 2017 3rd round pick and a 2018 cndl 5th

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think you're struggling, here. He's played awful this season and with every passing month he's failed to get back on track, further diminishing the extremely high value he had last season. He suffered a catastrophic knee injury (relative to professional sports) and has not yet rediscovered his game a year later. Scouts have been watching him struggle month after month and have delivered this feedback to their GMs over time which is how we end up seeing this player sold for a 3rd rounder with a half off coupon. Something that 14 minutes months ago would've been inconceivable given his excellent play and extremely sharp development curve from his draft season until the injury.

Do you have any insight as to if he's expected to make a full recovery?

 

[Palmer2Fitz]

If he is at least even decent bottom pairing, that's all we need right now. Our 4-7 defensemen just have been pretty bad. Engelland is what he is, and does it okay, but Jokipakka and Wideman have been awful. Bartowski hadn't even played in the NHL this season and he looked better than Jokipakka outside of one gongshow of a shift.

He will definitely be a solid bottom pair but still expect him to be much better come playoff time. He has a cannon shot and can use the body just not very mobile. Fully expect him to be on your 2nd pairing at some point.

 

[rt]

Do you have any insight as to if he's expected to make a full recovery?

I think he will. Does the set back have a lasting impact? I hope not. I think he'll be an effective player again. He has the potential to be a guy who kills penalties but also scores PP goals and can throw some hits.

 

[RABBIT]

Do you have any insight as to if he's expected to make a full recovery?

There's ALMOST no question he will return to full form. Also, his connections with Calgary, and connections with Treliving will significantly increase your chance of signing him as well.

Good trade for Calgary, decent trade for us.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

I have never understood how to read these charts. Like what does buried mean? Also what do those dotted lines represent? Chart just lacks info unless you apparently know what it is referring to already which makes it pretty useless.

Buried means the opposite of sheltered I think. (I don't think buried is the best term)

Looks like the dotted lines are just the max value on each axes (and then another dotted line the same distance away from the centre to be symmetric)

 

[Blitzago*]

There's ALMOST no question he will return to full form. Also, his connections with Calgary, and connections with Treliving will significantly increase your chance of signing him as well.

Good trade for Calgary, decent trade for us.

That is a bold statement, he hasn't been anywhere close to his old self this year.

 

[Bobblebee]

Wow I like this trade from both sides but especially from Calgary's side.

 

[TimeZone]

Decent deal for the Flames.

 

[me2]

I have never understood how to read these charts. Like what does buried mean? Also what do those dotted lines represent? Chart just lacks info unless you apparently know what it is referring to already which makes it pretty useless.

Horizontal is how well a player is handling their minutes. Further right the better.

Height is where they start the most (defensive or offensive zone). The lower is harder.

Ie Bottom right means being a good possession player despite being used in a defensive zone a lot.

 

[Volica]

Good deal for Calgary. A third is nothing in a weak draft, especially considering they'll likely sell Wideman; and they had a lot of picks last year.

As for the people LoL'ing Stone being bad this year. You must not know Wideman.

Ah you think suck is your ally? You merely adopted the suck. Widedog was born in it, molded by it.

 

[MMC]

Horizontal is how well a player is handling their minutes. Further right the better.

Height is where they start the most (defensive or offensive zone). The lower is harder.

Ie Bottom right means being a good possession player despite being used in a defensive zone a lot.

Yeah this. The whole Coyotes defense inflates the chart to make them look worse then they are because the team is so bad, but the fact that he's so far to the left is concerning.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Thanks rt & Rabbit! I'm really stoked we got this guy, honestly I've wanted him for the better part of 2 seasons. After last season I thought he was essentially untouchable before he got hurt.

 

[Nucker101]

He hasn't been the same since his knee surgery. It was a bad injury, a lot of athletes say that it takes more than a year to recover.

Good chance here that the Flames are acquiring damaged goods. I can see him bouncing back strong next year though after a full off-season of regular training and more time removed from the injury. So I like the deal if they re-sign him, but I don't think they'll benefit much this season.

 

[DearDiary]

I have never understood how to read these charts. Like what does buried mean? Also what do those dotted lines represent? Chart just lacks info unless you apparently know what it is referring to already which makes it pretty useless.

The way to read every chart is the same...

Horizontal value vs Vertical value. Lines separate each side into equal quadrants to easier compare values. In this case the average zone usage of pairings

What does Buried mean? It's the lowest possible vertical value. So let's read the vertical bar and we can see it shows "Zone starts % Compared to Pair Avg". So would that not mean Buried is a lower percentage of defensive zone starts compared to the pairs average? Horizontal would be the quality of play of how they use those minutes

Explain how the chart lacks info...

 

[Lunatik]

Wait, I thought the reason the flames D sucked was from their 4-6 D men, Why does it even matter with those studs in 1st 2nd and 3rd on your depth chart?

Which one is it.

It's actually extremely simple to understand, Stone is better than Wideman, Engelland, Jokipakka or Bartkowski. So the fact each of them could be pushed down makes the defense as a whole better.

Good trade if they get the Stone from last season.

Massive overpayment if it's the Stone from this season.

Massive overpayment if he struggles? A 3rd is lucky to ever become an NHLer

Did Brouwer change his name? zero chance Frolik is exposed.

As for the trade. In case nobody noticed Wideman completely forgot how to play hockey. the flames could equip Stone with ski boots and a cricket stick and he would be a better #4 with Brodie.

If they Flames protected 4D (which they won't), they would protect Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett and Backlund, thus leaving all of Frolik, Brouwer and Ferland exposed.

 

[Lunatik]

He hasn't been the same since his knee surgery. It was a bad injury, a lot of athletes say that it takes more than a year to recover.

Good chance here that the Flames are acquiring damaged goods. I can see him bouncing back strong next year though after a full off-season of regular training and more time removed from the injury. So I like the deal if they re-sign him, but I don't think they'll benefit much this season.

You may be right, but if it guarantees Wideman sees no more time with Brodie (or he replaces Wideman in the lineup completely), then I think it will help us this year. I do hope he is re-signed though as I like his potential quite alot.

 

[MMC]

 

[Lunatik]

These graphs mean absolutely nothing.

Players will sometimes play better or worse with different teams, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason behind it. When the Flames acquired Kris Russell he's just cleared waivers, had been a healthy scratch quite a bit with St. Louis but in Calgary he absolutely thrived and there was no rhyme nor reason behind it really.

 

[JurassicTunga]

^

 

[Machinehead]

I have never understood how to read these charts. Like what does buried mean? Also what do those dotted lines represent? Chart just lacks info unless you apparently know what it is referring to already which makes it pretty useless.

Explanation

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127271319&postcount=147

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[Johnnybegood13]

You may be right, but if it guarantees Wideman sees no more time with Brodie (or he replaces Wideman in the lineup completely), then I think it will help us this year. I do hope he is re-signed though as I like his potential quite alot.

I quote this because most fans just don't realize how bad Wideman has gotten, if it's not the ghost penalties because he's in the lineup it's the daily bone-head defensive plays he makes that end up in our net. every single game he seems to effect a game in a negative way. Gulutzan flipped arguably the flames best D-Man in Brodie to his wrong side to play with this dummy and it failed in spades. simply put...Wideman is not an NHL player anymore.

Treliving and Gulutzan both should be fired for keeping him in the lineup 3/4 this season.

 

[Machinehead]

These graphs mean absolutely nothing.

Players will sometimes play better or worse with different teams, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason behind it. When the Flames acquired Kris Russell he's just cleared waivers, had been a healthy scratch quite a bit with St. Louis but in Calgary he absolutely thrived and there was no rhyme nor reason behind it really.

If you read said charts, he was ****ing terrible in Calgary too, but you know, whatever.

 

[Machinehead]

Wow, this is great

Not Stone, obviously. The visual.

 

[MMC]

Wow, this is great

Not Stone, obviously. The visual.

I was hoping you could explain it more. A friend recommended this person to me, so I thought I'd share it here. I don't completely understand it, didn't seem like my friend really did either .

 

[Lunatik]

If you read said charts, he was ****ing terrible in Calgary too, but you know, whatever.

Yeah basing on opinion on a chart is moronic. Advanced stats do not make someone good/bad they are not the be all and end all.