CFL 2024

[PositiveCashFlow]

I think we've established that Tre is the undisputed #1 QB

 

[K1984]

That's the second game just off the top of my head that was lost due to the kicker.

The 3rd quarter sucked, but I thought that the team regrouped and played well for the most part in the 4th. Als have a great defence, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they made the right adjustments. EE got it together defensively and put themselves in position to score points on multiple occasions in the 4th, but unfortunately they can't rely on a kicker to hit a 40 yarder with any degree of consistency.

 

[bone]

That's the second game just off the top of my head that was lost due to the kicker.

The 3rd quarter sucked, but I thought that the team regrouped and played well for the most part in the 4th. Als have a great defence, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they made the right adjustments. EE got it together defensively and put themselves in position to score points on multiple occasions in the 4th, but unfortunately they can't rely on a kicker to hit a 40 yarder with any degree of consistency.

Probably has cost them 2 wins, arguably 3 even.

First game vs. Ottawa that we lost by 3, he missed one early in the 4th quarter (but got a single at least) and botched the kickoff allowing Ottawa a very short field to get the walkoff. Though I'd partially blame the offense for poor clock management which allowed time for the kickoff to become a mistake and there's no guarantee you win in OT.

Second game vs. Ottawa, lost by 6, missed 3 field goals. Now the offense was also brutal in this game, but still you can't miss three field goals and expect to win.

Last night is 100% on him as it impacted play calling from there on out. Even a single on that miss would have allowed them to kick a field goal to tie, and leave it up to the defense to get their stops.

Especially frustrating about him is that out of his 7 misses 4 have been in fourth quarters where it's most crucial to be perfect to keep your momentum going near the end of the game. All four 4th quarter misses ended up being games they lost. The first they lost by 8, the 2nd they lost by 3, the third they lost by 6, and then yesterday losing by 4.

Throw in his botched kickoff vs. Ottawa, 5 of his 8 mistakes have happened in at the most important times in the game.

 

[K1984]

Probably has cost them 2 wins, arguably 3 even.

First game vs. Ottawa that we lost by 3, he missed one early in the 4th quarter (but got a single at least) and botched the kickoff allowing Ottawa a very short field to get the walkoff. Though I'd partially blame the offense for poor clock management which allowed time for the kickoff to become a mistake and there's no guarantee you win in OT.

Second game vs. Ottawa, lost by 6, missed 3 field goals. Now the offense was also brutal in this game, but still you can't miss three field goals and expect to win.

Last night is 100% on him as it impacted play calling from there on out. Even a single on that miss would have allowed them to kick a field goal to tie, and leave it up to the defense to get their stops.

Especially frustrating about him is that out of his 7 misses 4 have been in fourth quarters where it's most crucial to be perfect to keep your momentum going near the end of the game. All four 4th quarter misses ended up being games they lost. The first they lost by 8, the 2nd they lost by 3, the third they lost by 6, and then yesterday losing by 4.

Throw in his botched kickoff vs. Ottawa, 5 of his 8 mistakes have happened in at the most important times in the game.

Dean Faithfull isn't exactly Adam Vinatteri, but he's no worse than this. They have to make the change. EE are in 1st place or within striking distance with absolutely nothing changing other than the kicker. Even with all the other BS.

As much as things are different, they seem to always find a way to stay the same. There have been critical problems with one aspect of special teams or another for the better part of 20 years now with only momentary reprieves (2015 the only year I can think of where ST were legitimately good/excellent). I haven't watched all the games this year, but my sense is that the return and coverage game isn't THAT bad (at least compared to year's past), but of course that means this is the year EE have a kicker that can't hit the side of a barn.

 

[bone]

Dean Faithfull isn't exactly Adam Vinatteri, but he's no worse than this. They have to make the change. EE are in 1st place or within striking distance with absolutely nothing changing other than the kicker. Even with all the other BS.

As much as things are different, they seem to always find a way to stay the same. There have been critical problems with one aspect of special teams or another for the better part of 20 years now with only momentary reprieves (2015 the only year I can think of where ST were legitimately good/excellent). I haven't watched all the games this year, but my sense is that the return and coverage game isn't THAT bad (at least compared to year's past), but of course that means this is the year EE have a kicker that can't hit the side of a barn.

Their punting team in number 1 in the league in punting average and net punting avg (going into this weekend, but I don't think yesterday's game negatively impacted it). Kickoffs are also decent outside the game opening TD vs. Saskatchewan

However, their punt return team is bottom of the league. So at least it has improved in 1 of the 3 key areas, but still horribad in 2 of the 3 areas of concern for special teams.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

And I will save it just for the oilers

I will however have A and W simply because I’m fat and craving it. A whistle dog combo sounds lovey

Eat all the A&W you want because you’re most definitely not fat!

 

[MoontoScott]

That's the second game just off the top of my head that was lost due to the kicker.

The 3rd quarter sucked, but I thought that the team regrouped and played well for the most part in the 4th. Als have a great defence, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they made the right adjustments. EE got it together defensively and put themselves in position to score points on multiple occasions in the 4th, but unfortunately they can't rely on a kicker to hit a 40 yarder with any degree of consistency.

Yes, in the past 2 seasons, once the D started to falter--- it was complete collapse. This year they are more experienced and don't panic as much. If the EE can keep this group together then I believe it will be the best defense in the West come next season.

OMG the EE are cursed wrt free agents. Bede and MBT will not return in 2025. Leake will be back based on the unexpected outcome that he is a fine tailback with lots of speed.

I don't know who the EE can sign that can be a threat to score on a punt or kickoff return. I guess such a player does not exist?? Strange that other teams seem to find them.

 

[DoubleEFan]

Bede shouldnt even be flown back to Edmonton

• Add bookmark
• #1

It’s time to bench Bede. Hopefully we can find a stronger kicker. Bede just misses too many. Put Faithful in now and have Tre Ford return for the next games if he can. MBT seemed to have difficulties making the wide side passes. I guess he is a pocket quarterback. I know he’s old, but was moving as slow as a turtle when he did need to run. It’s just a different team overall with Tre Ford.

 

[bellagiobob]

Yes, in the past 2 seasons, once the D started to falter--- it was complete collapse. This year they are more experienced and don't panic as much. If the EE can keep this group together then I believe it will be the best defense in the West come next season.

OMG the EE are cursed wrt free agents. Bede and MBT will not return in 2025. Leake will be back based on the unexpected outcome that he is a fine tailback with lots of speed.

I don't know who the EE can sign that can be a threat to score on a punt or kickoff return. I guess such a player does not exist?? Strange that other teams seem to find them.

Out of every possible position on a football team, you would think that a kick returner would be at the top of the list as far as easiest to scout and acquire a decent one. Bring five burners to camp and you’d think one would be decent. Imagine doing this for a decade or two and still coming up empty. And I realize that it’s more than just the return man that is the issue, but how is it possible that our structure and other personnel can also be this bad for this long. Truly mind boggling.

 

[K1984]

Out of every possible position on a football team, you would think that a kick returner would be at the top of the list as far as easiest to scout and acquire a decent one. Bring five burners to camp and you’d think one would be decent. Imagine doing this for a decade or two and still coming up empty. And I realize that it’s more than just the return man that is the issue, but how is it possible that our structure and other personnel can also be this bad for this long. Truly mind boggling.

Due to the long, long run of returners from various backgrounds and experience levels that have come here and failed, I lean towards the blocking teams being more the source of the issue than the returners.

Having said that, as you mention - how is it at all possible that we can't field a special teams unit that can block downfield for kick and punt returns over this many years and this many coaching staffs? Over a 20 year stretch, that is probably actually the easiest thing to fix even more so than the returner specifically, but they just can't do it.

 

[joestevens29]

Due to the long, long run of returners from various backgrounds and experience levels that have come here and failed, I lean towards the blocking teams being more the source of the issue than the returners.

Having said that, as you mention - how is it at all possible that we can't field a special teams unit that can block downfield for kick and punt returns over this many years and this many coaching staffs? Over a 20 year stretch, that is probably actually the easiest thing to fix even more so than the returner specifically, but they just can't do it.

I really can't remember which ex-esk it was that was talking about the return game a few weeks back and he did say in theory it's all pretty simple.

The problem is you need good IQ throughout the return team. A return team understanding where to be depending where the kick goes, a returner paying attention to what his blockers are doing even if they miss read the kick.

And then heaven forbid you actually get a return team that understands how the kicker likes to run the ball back once he's actually made some yards.

 

[tardigrade81]

Eat all the A&W you want because you’re most definitely not fat!

That’s it! I’m framing this and printing it so my wife can see it !!!! lol!!!

 

[MoontoScott]

Out of every possible position on a football team, you would think that a kick returner would be at the top of the list as far as easiest to scout and acquire a decent one. Bring five burners to camp and you’d think one would be decent. Imagine doing this for a decade or two and still coming up empty. And I realize that it’s more than just the return man that is the issue, but how is it possible that our structure and other personnel can also be this bad for this long. Truly mind boggling.

Indeed, it is a mystery how you can go for a decade without a returner that is of consequence.

The last one I remember was about a decade ago, he was here for a couple of seasons and then was cut (?) and went on play with the Riders as a DB for a few years. Someone on the thread will remember the name and help me out.

One thing I do know is that if you look back thru Eskie History, success was around when you had great special teams and great kickers---people like Gizmo, Larry Highbaugh, Dave Cutler, Hank Ilisec, Sean Fleming, Winston October and a long list of others.

 

[K1984]

Indeed, it is a mystery how you can go for a decade without a returner that is of consequence.

The last one I remember was about a decade ago, he was here for a couple of seasons and then was cut (?) and went on play with the Riders as a DB for a few years. Someone on the thread will remember the name and help me out.

One thing I do know is that if you look back thru Eskie History, success was around when you had great special teams and great kickers---people like Gizmo, Larry Highbaugh, Dave Cutler, Hank Ilisec, Sean Fleming, Winston October and a long list of others.

Tristan Jackson! I totally forgot about him haha. Naturally he got traded for absolutely nothing only to go on to be a player for the Riders for a number of years. If memory serves he wasn't terrible as a DB either.

He was good, and Kendal Lawrence was decent at it too, but not amazing. Going on a 20 year time span, I think that is literally it.

 

[MoontoScott]

Tristan Jackson! I totally forgot about him haha.

He was good, and Kendal Lawrence was decent at it too, but not amazing. Going on a 20 year time span, I think that is literally it.

Thank you so much--that was the name I was looking for. Tristan Jackson was a threat every time he touched the ball. I don't know why he was cut but yes, that was the last season we ever had a Gizmo/Highbaugh type guy who could make a difference.

 

[K1984]

Thank you so much--that was the name I was looking for. Tristan Jackson was a threat every time he touched the ball. I don't know why he was cut but yes, that was about the last season we ever saw of a Gizmo/Highbaugh type guy who could make a difference.

Edited my post before you responded - but he got dealt for superstar DB Ladarius Key.

Sounds about right for the time. Trade your back to back ST player of the year (that could also play some defence) to a rival for a nothing player in return.

 

[MoontoScott]

Edited my post before you responded - but he got dealt for superstar DB Ladarius Key.

Sounds about right for the time. Trade your back to back ST player of the year (that could also play some defence) to a rival for a nothing player in return.

Who was GM at the time?

 

[bone]

Tony Thompkins showed potential just before the time Jackson showed up for awhile as well, but he was almost 20 years ago.

Both were obtained in the Danny Maciocia era. Jackson traded by Tillman. No GM since him has had a threat returner.

 

[K1984]

Who was GM at the time?

Believe that was Tillman, but if not him it was Maciocia.

So about what you would expect from either.

Tony Thompkins showed potential just before the time Jackson showed up for awhile as well, but he was almost 20 years ago.

Both were obtained and lost under the Danny Maciocia era. No GM since him has had a threat returner.

I didn't count him because that was right on the line, but correct.

He was a weird one because he was a legitimate threat, then just kind of vanished. I can't remember what happened there.

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

I feel like we had this discussion about 6 months ago. Christian Salisbury (RIP) was promising. Of course Leake but I think he's more useful as a tail

 

[MoontoScott]

Believe that was Tillman, but if not him it was Maciocia.

So about what you would expect from either.



I didn't count him because that was right on the line, but correct.

He was a weird one because he was a legitimate threat, then just kind of vanished. I can't remember what happened there.

What a disaster Tillman was and the fans begged the BOD not to hire that turkey-- and they went out and did it anyway.

IIRC he traded Ricky Ray (in addition to Tristan Jackson) for magic beans??

 

[MoontoScott]

Well, I think in this discussion we have concluded that the last returner of any significant talent and longevity was Tristan Jackson who was traded away in 2009.

Yikes-- a 15 year drought.

 

[K1984]

On the topic of Tristan Jackson, there was one game here against Calgary where he lit it up.

Eskimos needed a TD with basically no time left, Jackson hits a massive return, then Ray hits Fred Stamps in the end zone for a walk off TD on the next play. Was in the stands for it, and I could remember basically knowing that Jackson was going to put us in a position to score with how he was playing that night. Was one of the more fun games I've been to over this 20 year time span we're talking about.

Edit - found the highlights.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

On the topic of Tristan Jackson, there was one game here against Calgary where he lit it up.

Eskimos needed a TD with basically no time left, Jackson hits a massive return, then Ray hits Fred Stamps in the end zone for a walk off TD on the next play. Was in the stands for it, and I could remember basically knowing that Jackson was going to put us in a position to score with how he was playing that night. Was one of the more fun games I've been to over this 20 year time span we're talking about.

Edit - found the highlights.

I remember 15-year-old me turning off the TV in anger after the Copeland TD with 35 seconds left, and plodding upstairs to go to bed. I turned on my bedside radio for what I thought would be the inevitable post-game show.

Learned an important lesson about not giving up too soon that night...

 

[MoontoScott]

On the topic of Tristan Jackson, there was one game here against Calgary where he lit it up.

Eskimos needed a TD with basically no time left, Jackson hits a massive return, then Ray hits Fred Stamps in the end zone for a walk off TD on the next play. Was in the stands for it, and I could remember basically knowing that Jackson was going to put us in a position to score with how he was playing that night. Was one of the more fun games I've been to over this 20 year time span we're talking about.

Edit - found the highlights.

Wonderful--thanks again for doing this.

A CFL classic and look at that talent on the field for both clubs-- and of course Mr. Instant field position, Tristan Jackson--haha--love it.