Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report

[joybang]

Provorov is the perfect example of a defenceman that looks better for a casual viewer than he really is. He plays a lot and does stuff, but he doesnt do that stuff very well. His good skating and heavy usage (playing minutes) give you the impression that he is good, sometimes even great. But the reality is that he is very average and actually quite poor at defending.

This is a few years old card, but he hasnt changed.

On his 24-25 card his EV Def% is actually about 25 points lower. But the rest is mostly the same.

 

[majormajor]

On his 24-25 card his EV Def% is actually about 25 points lower. But the rest is mostly the same.

So his "proj WAR" would be closer to 10th percentile?

 

[Misfire Puck]

What is the goal? For the team to win hockey games, or for Werenski to win a trophy? Werenski looks good because of Zack Werenski, not Fabbro.

And I’ll ask this question, when the team is down, and in need of a goal, who does Evason pair with Werenski? Why??

There isn’t a single (top 6) defenseman on the roster who has made a difference on how Werenski has performed, produced, or looked on the ice this year. Each guy has had good and bad games.


He hasn’t done anything that all the other defenseman have done. If we have literally one of the best defensemen in the league, his pairing should actually be more impactful than it has been, IMO. I genuinely think Fabbro is a negative playing top pairing minutes, and or regularly with Werenski. Again, down 2 goals in the 3rd, Werenski gets a different partner. Why?


When the team is down a goal late in the 3rd period. Who does Evason pair with Werenski??

You're right, Werenski is doing Werenski things no matter who he is paired with. That wasn't my point.
My point is that to my (limited) viewings Fabbro seems to be type of defender that you can put to any pair and except steady results. Good defence with some offence. Is he guy that you wanna put in 1st pair? No. Can he play there and not look overwhelmed? IMO atleast atm yes.

And to guestion why Z gets paired with different partner when team needs goal, well, maybe they wanna put more offensive guys out there.

In a world where we sign Fabbro (and he continues to be able to play big minutes) and get 1st pair RD, I would probably still prefer Fabbro with Z and put the other guy with Mateychuk just to spread talent. Then you can change it when Denton develops bit further. Or when team need goal badly.

But this is just my opinion and as I said, with limited viewings.

 

[Viqsi]

So this caught me by surprise:

What we’re hearing about the nixed J.T. Miller trade and a new Canucks direction

The Canucks and Rangers came close to a trade involving J.T. Miller but the deal fell apart.

www.nytimes.com

The Columbus Blue Jackets may be a team to monitor if the Canucks determine that an agreement with Boeser isn’t possible and consider trading the pending UFA. The Blue Jackets appear to have a high regard for the player and have the cap room and assets to make an attractive pitch for his services on the trade market.

(It's unclear who the source of that is, as the article has four authors in its byline.)

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Leaning towards "I'll believe it if Portzline confirms it" and no further.

 

[majormajor]

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I'm sure I feel not great about it. We don't need to go after sniper-wingers, especially ones that have been very inconsistent over the years. He surpassed 23 goals once in the last six years. A lot of injuries and rough stretches.

 

[Viqsi]

Well, I double-checked with HFCanucks and they're under the impression it's Rick Dhaliwal's work, and he's evidently highly regarded over there as a well connected insider with mostly agents as his sources. I think that still keeps it in "I'll believe it if Portzline confirms it" territory for me, but at least it's not someone coming up with pure nonsense.

But yeah, I agree with @majormajor that it doesn't strike me as making much sense for us; I figure we have a much bigger need for playmakers and that doesn't seem like his game.

 

[majormajor]

I figure we have a much bigger need for playmakers and that doesn't seem like his game.

I like our playmaking too. I don't think we have a great need there.

Looking at where our club is at right now, we should be getting secondary scoring forwards like Nyquist, which aren't costly at all. We can be a solid playoff team with inexpensive additions, and there's not a good enough reason to not do that. I don't get why we're not doing that.

There are some player types that would make more sense to me - getting a top six center, a power forward, a playdriver like Bjorkstrand, a solid top 4 RD like Andersson. Boeser is none of those things.

 

[joybang]

So his "proj WAR" would be closer to 10th percentile?

Oddly enough it was the same at 23%

 

[stevo61]

Seems like an odd target. If there is any truth to it would Provorov/Boeser be the base and they then look for an upgrade on D?

 

[Napoli]

Boeser is a good player that would provide some reliable secondary scoring but not sure it makes to go after him unless you can sign him to a contract long term. I see bigger holes on D personally. I'm not convinced we're Cup contenders either so going all in seems rather foolish.

 

[majormajor]

Boeser is a good player that would provide some reliable secondary scoring but not sure it makes to go after him unless you can sign him to a contract long term. I see bigger holes on D personally. I'm not convinced we're Cup contenders either so going all in seems rather foolish.

??

 

[koteka]

When we traded for him, Seth Jones possibly had the highest pedigree of any under 23 D in the league.

You're conflating that caliber of asset with "decent right D". There are many "decent right D" that aren't super valuable assets, either because of lower upside or age or contract or risk.

When we've talked with Flames fans about Rasmus Andersson, the guys they most often ask for are actually Sillinger or Chinakhov.

Jones was Nashville’s 3RD (Nashville was very deep defensively) playing 19 minutes a night. Johansen was a 1C coming off a 71 point season where he averaged 19 minutes. (He never hit 71 points again.) I don’t know how distressed he was. There was a potential issue and rumors around town (I heard he liked a certain powdery substance), but the guy was still a big young 1C.

Now Jones almost instantly became a 1RD in Columbus and averaged 24 minutes per night after the trade, but that is not who was in Nashville.

I have to think Ekblad had the highest pedigree of any right D under 23 in the league at the time of the trade. He was a #1OA pick the year after Jones and put up 39 points his rookie year and was playing over 21 minutes per night.

 

[Napoli]

??

You think this team is going to score forever even into the playoffs?

And yes, a guy who consistently puts up 20+ goals a year is reliable.

 

[majormajor]

Jones was Nashville’s 3RD (Nashville was very deep defensively) playing 19 minutes a night. Johansen was a 1C coming off a 71 point season where he averaged 19 minutes. (He never hit 71 points again.) I don’t know how distressed he was. There was a potential issue and rumors around town (I heard he liked a certain powdery substance), but the guy was still a big young 1C.

Now Jones almost instantly became a 1RD in Columbus and averaged 24 minutes per night after the trade, but that is not who was in Nashville.

I have to think Ekblad had the highest pedigree of any right D under 23 in the league at the time of the trade. He was a #1OA pick the year after Jones and put up 39 points his rookie year and was playing over 21 minutes per night.

There are many "decent right D" that are worth a small fraction of 22 year old Jones/Ekblad. You know this.

And yes, a guy who consistently puts up 20+ goals a year is reliable.

He's come up short of 20 goals two of the last five years. Not necessarily his fault, but he's had a lot of reasons why he has disappointed. For me 3 out of 5 is not good enough to be considered a "consistent 20+ goal scorer".

 

[koteka]

There are many "decent right D" that are worth a small fraction of 22 year old Jones/Ekblad. You know this.



He's come up short of 20 goals two of the last five years. Not necessarily his fault, but he's had a lot of reasons why he has disappointed. For me 3 out of 5 is not good enough to be considered a "consistent 20+ goal scorer".

I think we should go for a really good right D. Like, someone emerging or likely to emerge as a legit good 1D. And we should pay the price, and it will be a high price. I mean we could go for a guy like Jalen Chatfield and offer something tempting while keeping all our key guys. He might be a good regular season 2RD for us and partner with Mateychuk, but does that give us a defense built for the playoffs? And he doesn’t have a contract that will extend into our hopeful Cup window.

 

[Napoli]

He's come up short of 20 goals two of the last five years. Not necessarily his fault, but he's had a lot of reasons why he has disappointed. For me 3 out of 5 is not good enough to be considered a "consistent 20+ goal scorer".

He put up 40 goals last year and the only years he "missed" 20 goals were less than full seasons played. You can like or not like the player but he scores goals. Not to mention the underlying stats are solid, judging how well Evason's system creates offense, I'd say he'd be closer to 30 consistently.

 

[majormajor]

I think we should go for a really good right D. Like, someone emerging or likely to emerge as a legit good 1D. And we should pay the price, and it will be a high price. I mean we could go for a guy like Jalen Chatfield and offer something tempting while keeping all our key guys. He might be a good regular season 2RD for us and partner with Mateychuk, but does that give us a defense built for the playoffs? And he doesn’t have a contract that will extend into our hopeful Cup window.

Rasmus Andersson wouldn't require us to send Voronkov or KJ or Fantilli either. Like I was saying, Flames fans were asking about getting one of Sillinger or Chinakhov.

There it is, a player who is very good, who is not worth what 22 year old Ekblad/Jones would have returend.

 

[punk_o_holic]

Regarding Boeser. I would rather take a chance on him becoming a UFA and go after him then if they really want him. I know it was reported that they don't want to do that and prefer a sign and trade. But what is the cost? As a rental, could be a 1st, maybe more. If it's a sign and trade, I'm assuming they'll ask for more. Looks like he shows up in the playoffs (last year he was coming up clutch). But like major said, injury history is concerning. Aldo can blood clots reoccur? He had that issue to end his season last year.

 

[thebus88]

Give me modern day Jones or Ekblad, if that means we keep Chinakhov.

Chinakhov >>> Sillinger

 

[GoJackets1]

Andersson would definitely be one of my top long term targets, if not the top. Boeser feels like a strange get.

 

[Monk]

Provorov is the perfect example of a defenceman that looks better for a casual viewer than he really is. He plays a lot and does stuff, but he doesnt do that stuff very well. His good skating and heavy usage (playing minutes) give you the impression that he is good, sometimes even great. But the reality is that he is very average and actually quite poor at defending.

This is a few years old card, but he hasnt changed.

This backs up what I've been feeling most of the season. Extremely meh.

 

[koteka]

Rasmus Andersson wouldn't require us to send Voronkov or KJ or Fantilli either. Like I was saying, Flames fans were asking about getting one of Sillinger or Chinakhov.

I don’t care what Flames fans say on a message board. I care about Flames pro scouts and their GM.

People make fun of how stupid the mains can be but then they also say “here is something I agree with on the mains so I must be right”.

eta - I am sure I have been guilty of this myself.

 

[3074326]

nvm please delete