Player Discussion Carey Price - Moving Home Edition

[BehindTheTimes]

That'd be a dream come true honestly. The man deserves a cup so he can go down as the unanimous greatest Habs goalie of all time because unfortunately, although he's more talented and quite frankly better than Dryden or Roy, he'll never get the esteem from a huge portion of fans until he wins a cup

Lmao, good one.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

We need to stop being homers and admit that Brodeur and Hasek were just plain better. Roy had the privilege of having better teams in front of him in Colorado and wasn't putting up the numbers that the other two were in the exact same era. Taking nothing away from Roy, he's still probably top 5 all time but people point to 93 and treat him like a god but won't do the same for let's say Dryden and 71

This is probably the most misinformed post on these boards. It hurt reading it. Roy is the greatest goalie who ever lived. Hasek was the best and brodeur isn’t even 3rd.

Go learn something The Save Percentage Case for Patrick Roy Over Dominik Hasek

 

[Andrei79]

While I loved watching both Roy and Price and while it pains me to say it, Hasek is the best I've ever witnessed. His string of Vezinas and two Hart's were the highest peak from a player since Lemieux/Gretzky. He wins multiple cups on any of the 80s and 90s top teams.

 

[BLONG7]

This is probably the most misinformed post on these boards. It hurt reading it. Roy is the greatest goalie who ever lived. Hasek was the best and brodeur isn’t even 3rd.

Go learn something The Save Percentage Case for Patrick Roy Over Dominik Hasek

How did Patrick fair against the Bruins in the playoffs?
Just asking...............I saw it, did you?? It wasn't pretty.

All jokes aside, yes he was a great goalie, but crazy inconsistent....and an absolute Me-Me player.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

While I loved watching both Roy and Price and while it pains me to say it, Hasek is the best I've ever witnessed. His string of Vezinas and two Hart's were the highest peak from a player since Lemieux/Gretzky. He wins multiple cups on any of the 80s and 90s top teams.

Dominik Hasek is a top ten player of all time. I can’t put him 5th but you could make a case for it. So dominant on such bad teams.

And… I hated Domink Hasek. I hate the flopping and rolling around. It drove me crazy. Always looked like he was getting lucky. I didn’t enjoy watching him play because he looked so amateurish. Roy, Brodeur, Price… classic, stand up positional goalies. I like that a lot better.

But you can’t argue with his success. Being that dominant on those teams is remarkable.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Whaaaat?????

Robinson, Gainey, Chelios, McPhee, Ludwig, Green, Carbo, Skrudland… multiple Norris and Selke winners. All playing in a tight defensive system. We were the Devils before the Devils.

Hasek led THE BUFFALO SABRES to a cup final. He beat Roy head to head in the Olympics and in Detroit. Brodeur won multiple cups as well.

Hasek always ended up choking or getting hurt which is why he wasn't able to complete the job. He ended up winning with Detroit but was just a passenger at that point. Brodeur was also along for the ride to a lesser extent and was never the best player on his team which is why he never won a Conn Smythe.

Montreal definitely had great defensive teams but some of that was due to having the best goaltender in the league. Are you actually going to try and argue that Patrick Roy didn't literally steal two Stanley Cups for us?????? Brodeur never came close to such a feat and Hasek was the greatest that I ever saw but in spurts and not long enough to win a cup. Patrick was more mentally strong than Hasek which is why Hasek always succumbed to the pressure. There were even allegations from inside the Sabres dressing room that Hasek quit on them.

Every goaltender is streaky by nature and yes, Roy had some poor playoffs as did Hasek and Brodeur. Brodeur had a ton of 1st round exits and some were directly his fault. I feel like Brodeur is hockey's version of Derek Jeter where everything is exaggerated and the general public entirely ignores the obvious shortcomings.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

How did Patrick fair against the Bruins in the playoffs?
Just asking...............I saw it, did you?? It wasn't pretty.

All jokes aside, yes he was a great goalie, but crazy inconsistent....and an absolute Me-Me player.

You can't discount the 4 series that he eliminated the Bruins including one of them on his way to a Cup while being a virtually unanimous selection as the Conn Smythe winner.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

How did Patrick fair against the Bruins in the playoffs?
Just asking...............I saw it, did you?? It wasn't pretty.

All jokes aside, yes he was a great goalie, but crazy inconsistent....and an absolute Me-Me player.

I call this cherry picking. I’ve seen every playoff game Patrick Roy had played for the Habs. He’s arguably the best money goalie/playoff performer of all time, hence his 3 smythes, yet you want to reduce that to a couple bad series. What?

 

[BLONG7]

You can't discount the 4 series that he eliminated the Bruins including one of them on his way to a Cup while being a virtually unanimous selection as the Conn Smythe winner.

Thinking he beat the Bruins 3 times, and got spanked by them 5 times in the playoffs. He was very bad during those series losses.....

Great goalie guys, don't get me wrong, but you guys seem to have very selective memories when it comes to his playoff heroics.......

 

[sandviper]

Grew up watching Roy, Joseph, Moog, Barasso, Belfour, Hasek, Brodeur, etc….

I do remember Dryden, but only his later years.

Maybe I’m biased but Patrick was the greatest during my formative years of watching hockey. He had some decent teams but even then, he was the best player on the Habs. I dunno, always felt Brodeur benefited from playing behind a very structured system and while I know Hasek was a GREAT goalie, somehow all that flopping around made me think he was just ridiculously lucky. I know he wasn’t, but growing up, that was how I felt.

I do think though Price is the GOAT though. His teams were arguably weaker than Roy’s and he never got the offensive support. Just from a pure technical perspective, Price is near perfect. Granted, I get the game had evolved and coaching is different now, but technique-wise, Price was great.

 

[BLONG7]

Grew up watching Roy, Joseph, Moog, Barasso, Belfour, Hasek, Brodeur, etc….

I do remember Dryden, but only his later years.

Maybe I’m biased but Patrick was the greatest during my formative years of watching hockey. He had some decent teams but even then, he was the best player on the Habs. I dunno, always felt Brodeur benefited from playing behind a very structured system and while I know Hasek was a GREAT goalie, somehow all that flopping around made me think he was just ridiculously lucky. I know he wasn’t, but growing up, that was how I felt.

I do think though Price is the GOAT though. His teams were arguably weaker than Roy’s and he never got the offensive support. Just from a pure technical perspective, Price is near perfect. Granted, I get the game had evolved and coaching is different now, but technique-wise, Price was great.

Price never got the run support, never. It was a shame we did not get a Cup with him on the team.
Limited playoff success as a team over his career, and never having the fire power of years ago sealed his fate.
You need Cups...............it's that simple. Still an amazing career.

 

[ReHabs]

Grew up watching Roy, Joseph, Moog, Barasso, Belfour, Hasek, Brodeur, etc….

I do remember Dryden, but only his later years.

Maybe I’m biased but Patrick was the greatest during my formative years of watching hockey. He had some decent teams but even then, he was the best player on the Habs. I dunno, always felt Brodeur benefited from playing behind a very structured system and while I know Hasek was a GREAT goalie, somehow all that flopping around made me think he was just ridiculously lucky. I know he wasn’t, but growing up, that was how I felt.

I do think though Price is the GOAT though. His teams were arguably weaker than Roy’s and he never got the offensive support. Just from a pure technical perspective, Price is near perfect. Granted, I get the game had evolved and coaching is different now, but technique-wise, Price was great.

Price's inability to get shutouts was always driving me crazy. He cannot be the GOAT for this reason alone. He always had one goal against in him.

The rest of your perspective is one with which I am fully aligned but, for whatever reason, I am becoming more sympathetic to Brodeur. Workshorse, reliable, steady. Qualities you want in a goalie. Price is much more like Brodeur (except he couldn't get shutouts like Marty) than Roy.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hasek always ended up choking or getting hurt which is why he wasn't able to complete the job. He ended up winning with Detroit but was just a passenger at that point.

Hasek played on teams that shouldn’t have made the playoffs to begin with. The year he took them to the finals Mike Peca was his leading scorer with 65 points. The next highest was 55.

Roy never had a real playoff upset in his career. The closest points wise would be Detroit in 96 but the Avs were every bit as good a team as the Wings were. And he lost several series he should’ve won.

As for Hasek choking, please tell me what year you think that happened. Seriously man…

.Brodeur was also along for the ride to a lesser extent and was never the best player on his team which is why he never won a Conn Smythe.

Brodeur is tough to judge. Similar to Roy he played on great teams for most of his career and the D really helped him. But to suggest he was a passenger on those clubs is criminally wrong.

And Roy may have been the best player on the Montreal clubs but as a team, they gave him protection that other goalies could only dream of.

Personally I’d put Dryden ahead of both of them.

Montreal definitely had great defensive teams but some of that was due to having the best goaltender in the league. Are you actually going to try and argue that Patrick Roy didn't literally steal two Stanley Cups for us??????

First, you said he played on non powerhouse defensive teams. That is laughably wrong and you should acknowledge it.

Secondly, as I said, he earned those Smythes. But it’s not the upset you think it was. We weren’t expected to win those years but that’s because Edmonton and Pittsburgh were. Neither made the finals and we had a relatively easy road to the cup. He was our best player but they were both really good teams. And we had outstanding teams throughout the late 80s.

As for Hasek being a passenger, he beat Roy on his way to that cup head to head. So no, he was not.

Brodeur never came close to such a feat and Hasek was the greatest that I ever saw but in spurts and not long enough to win a cup. Patrick was more mentally strong than Hasek which is why Hasek always succumbed to the pressure. There were even allegations from inside the Sabres dressing room that Hasek quit on them.

Patrick was more mentally strong than Hasek? We’re talking about the guy (the only guy in the history of hockey actually) who got up in the middle of a game and literally quit on his team right?

Secondly, the biggest difference between them is the teams. Roy had a powerhouse defensive team for most of his career in Montreal and then went to powerhouse Colorado after. Hasek was on brutal clubs - some as bad as the teams Price was on. Not surprising at all that he didn’t win. Roy wouldn’t have won either.

You seriously think Hasek wouldn’t have won cups on the teams Roy was on? He beat Roy and Team Canada head to head. Beat him again for the cup. He actually has several upsets to his name. You really think Roy would’ve won cups in Buffalo? He wouldn’t. He didn’t manage upsets with better teams, what makes you think he would’ve won on crap ones?

Every goaltender is streaky by nature and yes, Roy had some poor playoffs as did Hasek and Brodeur. Brodeur had a ton of 1st round exits and some were directly his fault. I feel like Brodeur is hockey's version of Derek Jeter where everything is exaggerated and the general public entirely ignores the obvious shortcomings.

It’s one thing to lose in the first round, no big deal. It’s a whole other thing to consistently be bad enough to lose a series for your team on multiple occasions. Roy was flat out terrible against the Bruins almost every time he faced them- which was almost every year.

Please tell me the seasons you think Brodeur cost his teams the series wins.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I call this cherry picking. I’ve seen every playoff game Patrick Roy had played for the Habs. He’s arguably the best money goalie/playoff performer of all time, hence his 3 smythes, yet you want to reduce that to a couple bad series. What?

It wasn’t a couple of bad series. 87 he gets replaced by Hayward. 88 he loses - Richer going down killed us but Roy wasn’t great either. 90-92 he’s brutal.

Several years where he takes his club out of the series. By the spring of 93 most fans want him traded.

If we’d faced the Oilers and Pens in 86, 93 we wouldn’t be talking about Roy as an all time great at all.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price's inability to get shutouts was always driving me crazy. He cannot be the GOAT for this reason alone. He always had one goal against in him.

The rest of your perspective is one with which I am fully aligned but, for whatever reason, I am becoming more sympathetic to Brodeur. Workshorse, reliable, steady. Qualities you want in a goalie. Price is much more like Brodeur (except he couldn't get shutouts like Marty) than Roy.

Do you think Price would’ve got more shutouts if he’d played for those Devil teams?

 

[ReHabs]

Do you think Price would’ve got more shutouts if he’d played for those Devil teams?

Brodeur played very well and (torched the Habs) even after Nieds left in 2005. Their defence wasn't so good always either -- they had Oduya as 1D at one point and Brodeur still posted great stats all the same. Behind 33 year old Rafalski and Paul Martin, in 2006–07 he had a killer season posting 12 SOs, 2.18gaa, 0.922 sv%... and 48w in 78gp.

Brodeur won two Vezinas after Nieds left, in addition after 2005 he was named first or second team all-star three times I believe, and won the Jennings once as well. I know it's not as noteworthy but he was a Hart nominee once as well after Nieds left.

All that said, I don't think many hockey fans think the careers of Price and Brodeur are comparable even if Price was the Habs superstar and won the Hart (something Brodeur never did).

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Brodeur played very well and (torched the Habs) even after Nieds left in 2005. Their defence wasn't so good always either -- they had Oduya as 1D at one point and Brodeur still posted great stats all the same. Behind Rafalski and Paul Martin, in 2006–07 he had a killer season posting 12 SOs, 2.18gaa, 0.922 sv%... and 48w in 78gp.

Brodeur won two Vezinas after Nieds left, in addition after 2005 he was named first or second team all-star three times I believe, and won the Jennings once as well. I know it's not as noteworthy but he was a Hart nominee once as well after Nieds left.

All that said, I don't think many hockey fans think the careers of Price and Brodeur are comparable even if Price was the Habs superstar and won the Hart (something Brodeur never did).

They aren’t. Again though, it’d be a completely different story if you swapped teams. Even in those later years, it’s still trap hockey. Brodeur still has great protection. And he doesn’t have Michel Therrien coaching the team.

 

[ReHabs]

They aren’t. Again though, it’d be a completely different story if you swapped teams.

Price got 9, 8, and 6 shutouts in three different seasons but otherwise didn't pass 4 in other seasons. My comment was simply from my observation (having seeing 90%+ of Price's games) that he didn't get as many shutouts as I felt he should have.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Love Roy i enjoyed watching him but Hasek is the best goalie of all time and most people will tell you the same

 

[Mrb1p]

Brodeur played very well and (torched the Habs) even after Nieds left in 2005. Their defence wasn't so good always either -- they had Oduya as 1D at one point and Brodeur still posted great stats all the same. Behind 33 year old Rafalski and Paul Martin, in 2006–07 he had a killer season posting 12 SOs, 2.18gaa, 0.922 sv%... and 48w in 78gp.

Brodeur won two Vezinas after Nieds left, in addition after 2005 he was named first or second team all-star three times I believe, and won the Jennings once as well. I know it's not as noteworthy but he was a Hart nominee once as well after Nieds left.

All that said, I don't think many hockey fans think the careers of Price and Brodeur are comparable even if Price was the Habs superstar and won the Hart (something Brodeur never did).

A goat doing goat things isnt surprising. Brodeur is a product of his team but hes also an amazing goaltender. With Price, hes only an amazing goaltender.

Also those past Nieds teams werent bad. Lou spent money until Brodeur couldnt stand up. Lou was at this peak in the 00s, he built a team that could compete with no real star on the back end by focusing on the two-way ability and having players able to back it up when that plan failed. The Devils were an awesome offensive core with insane two way ability, lead by guys like Elias on one end and Madden on the other. From 05 until 12, they were 3rd in the league in SA's and 2nd in GA.

Ill even go as far as to say that any of the winning team Brodeur got after Nieds departure in 04 was better than Prices best team. 2015 I guess.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Love Roy i enjoyed watching him but Hasek is the best goalie of all time and most people will tell you the same

A lot of oldtimers will tell you it's Terry Sawchuk. I don't think I've met a boomer who says otherwise.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

A goat doing goat things isnt surprising. Brodeur is a product of his team but hes also an amazing goaltender. With Price, hes only an amazing goaltender.

Also those past Nieds teams werent bad. Lou spent money until Brodeur couldnt stand up. Lou was at this peak in the 00s, he built a team that could compete with no real star on the back end by focusing on the two-way ability and having players able to back it up when that plan failed. The Devils were an awesome offensive core with insane two way ability, lead by guys like Elias on one end and Madden on the other. From 05 until 12, they were 3rd in the league in SA's and 2nd in GA.

Ill even go as far as to say that any of the winning team Brodeur got after Nieds departure in 04 was better than Prices best team. 2015 I guess.

Price's number one center that year was David Desharnais...

 

[Mrb1p]

Price's number one center that year was David Desharnais...

Exactly. Id much rather have Paul Martin as 1D rather than friggin DD as 1C and Subban as 1D.

 

[sandviper]

Price's inability to get shutouts was always driving me crazy. He cannot be the GOAT for this reason alone. He always had one goal against in him.

The rest of your perspective is one with which I am fully aligned but, for whatever reason, I am becoming more sympathetic to Brodeur. Workshorse, reliable, steady. Qualities you want in a goalie. Price is much more like Brodeur (except he couldn't get shutouts like Marty) than Roy.

I can’t argue that first point. Habs do bleed a lot of high danger chances though, but it is what it is.

Honestly, I can see the argument for any of those past names and Price. I also recognize Brodeur as one of the greats, despite how I may had sounded previously.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I can’t argue that first point. Habs do bleed a lot of high danger chances though, but it is what it is.

Honestly, I can see the argument for any of those past names and Price. I also recognize Brodeur as one of the greats, despite how I may had sounded previously.

The problem with the comparisons is that the teams are at such extremes. Montreal was easily the best defensive team in the league in the late 80s. The Devils were the same throughout much of the 90s. And then you’ve got the Therrien coached Habs. I mean Roy never had to play behind that kind of trash and when things were going downhill he bolted. Ditto for Brodeur.

I think Price was as good as those other two. But health and teams get in the way. He simply doesn’t have their resume and it’s a coulda-been argument. Fair or not his resume simply doesn’t stack up.

There’s no shame in coming behind those guys though. You’re talking about all time great players. Price was able to take bad teams and turn them into first place clubs. He has multiple playoff upsets, took a terrible team to a final and was the best player on Team Canada when they won gold. From 2014-17 he was among the best players in the league. Injuries f***ed up what would’ve been an even better resume. He’ll deservedly go into the HOF. Should be first ballot. That’s pretty damn amazing considering the teams he was on.

Nobody was as good as Hasek though. The only guy with a better resume on paper would be Ken Dryden. But he played on the best teams ever. Still he led the club in 71 to maybe the biggest upsets ever. He’s vastly underrated.