Confirmed Trade: [CAR/PIT] Jake Guentzel (25% retained), Ty Smith for Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasili Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius, 2024 cond. 1st, 2024 cond. 5th

[Super Duper]

If this was the best offer than so be it. At least we didn't add some 25 year old again

 

[Frank Drebin]

Dubas and Pens management were very clear they wanted prospects, not picks. By "people" you mean random posters posting random shit here?

Well it seems you asked the question to the people posting random shit here.

And I'm sure dubas preferred cruz Lucius to a first round pick

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Best case scenario:

Canes make SCF and we get their 1st

These prospects are NHL ready

Jake signs with Pitt again




If we can trade Smith and Eller we can afford to throw a fat contract at Jake. Then use these cheap ELC guys to fill out the roster.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The Penguins are so f***ed regardless. I don’t know what the right move was. I don’t think the return is that bad, but the best player in this deal is almost certainly the player they traded and they will probably be worse for next year that they didn’t keep Guentzel.

Candy Canes made a good trade. They are the best drafting team in the league. They get first rounders in like the third round because NHL teams are picky. They’ll more than make up for what they sent away. Worth it for them. I know they don’t like rentals, but you have to do everything you can to make sure this is the year.

 

[hamzarocks]

The Penguins are so f***ed regardless. I don’t know what the right move was. I don’t think the return is that bad, but the best player in this deal is almost certainly the player they traded and they will probably be worse for next year that they didn’t keep Guentzel.

The pens need to rebuild

They shpuld be expected to suck the next 5 years

 

[TooManyHumans]

The Penguins are so f***ed regardless. I don’t know what the right move was. I don’t think the return is that bad, but the best player in this deal is almost certainly the player they traded and they will probably be worse for next year that they didn’t keep Guentzel.

They need to get either a lot better or a lot worse. Keeping Guentzel would have done neither.

 

[hotpaws]

typical Dubas , floats out he's looking for a home run , gets his boys from the media to start pumping how teams are lining up to gut there prospect pool for Jake then accepts a meh return and tries to sell the quantity of the meh as a huge haul . lol

oh yeah almost forgot , also had to take back a cap dump with term to get all that meh

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The pens need to rebuild

They shpuld be expected to suck the next 5 years

Crosby won’t let them do that. He runs the team. And Malkin, Letang, and Karlsson advise him.

I’ve started to believe when you are in this kind of bind you keep doubling down to eventually force yourself into becoming comically bad when all the HOF’ers retire. That’ll guarantee a top 2-3 pick then. Probably for the few seasons after that, and you accept you’re going to have a 5 year rebuild.

 

[bleedgreen]

People were expecting 2 first round picks or equivalent.

Or at least one

Do we have a lot of history of rentals getting two actual firsts?

You got the equivalent of two imo and more. Both Pono and Koivanen have increased their value since being second rounders, Bunting has value and the pick is a second that’s maybe a first. This is huge return.

Pono can play right now, Koivunen is probably ready next season. Value for now and the future. It’s a pretty huge win.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

People on this site bitch and whine just to hear themselves the majority of the time.

Hurricanes have a stacked prospect pool. Is the difference of say rated prospect #3 (Morrow) and a lower end one let’s run with #15, a better return that where these 3 guys were rated?

Canes fans and others stated these guys fell at #6 #7 and #9 all with good upside… It’s a great deal for both sides. All 3 instantly jump into the Pens top 5 prospects along with Yager and Pickering (and also on or around the same timelines as well…. Yager and Lucius a little behind the other 3)

Add in a 50 point player with term and only making $4.5 million can be easily dealt with whether on the team or getting Bunting off of it.

Maybe the hand wringing is because they didn’t return a first? Remember this draft has been noted to have about 15-20 solid prospects and then from there is a straight crapshoot like usual. Is the difference in pick say 25 where I could see the Canes being at the lowest pick, or the Flyers second rounder being around 45? Yeah I guess so. But it’s just a crapshoot like I said. I think the percentages are higher that the Canes make the Cup than finish in the lower 20’s especially when their first round of the playoffs they are getting an absolute scrub from the Metro.

This honestly looks bad because we had Penguins fans blowing their loads and asking for a ridiculous haul from other teams. When you step back and realize what the Penguins got for a guy that wasn’t going to help the remainder of the 20 games, (not because he’s bad but because the team sucks) and could possibly lose for absolutely nothing….

It was a smart move to get all that they got. And as long as Guentzel doesn’t resign with the Hurricanes, the Penguins have just as good of a shot as anyone to resign him if they truly want.

Like I said, win win and I am glad Dubas saw the writing on the wall to get all that he possibly could.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

They need to get either a lot better or a lot worse. Keeping Guentzel would have done neither.

I think they should trade all their draft picks to get better. Have none. Be the joke of the league once your HOF’ers retire and get guaranteed top 2-3 picks for a few years because of it and that’ll start your rebuild.

I would’ve kept Guentzel on an extension. Traded all my remaining picks and prospects for help to get better for the next 2-3 seasons, and went from there.

They can’t rebuild because their HOF’ers won’t allow it. Have to get better. This isn’t making them better.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

The Penguins are so f***ed regardless. I don’t know what the right move was. I don’t think the return is that bad, but the best player in this deal is almost certainly the player they traded and they will probably be worse for next year that they didn’t keep Guentzel.

Candy Canes made a good trade. They are the best drafting team in the league. They get first rounders in like the third round because NHL teams are picky. They’ll more than make up for what they sent away. Worth it for them. I know they don’t like rentals, but you have to do everything you can to make sure this is the year.

They don’t even have Guentzel next year. That’s the problem with every one talking about losing Guentzel.

Who is even sure he wanted to be back in Pittsburgh? Not saying it happened but if he wasn’t negotiating a new contract, what else do you do as the GM?

I think they should trade all their draft picks to get better. Have none. Be the joke of the league once your HOF’ers retire and get guaranteed top 2-3 picks for a few years because of it and that’ll start your rebuild.

I would’ve kept Guentzel on an extension. Traded all my remaining picks and prospects for help to get better for the next 2-3 seasons, and went from there.

They can’t rebuild because their HOF’ers won’t allow it. Have to get better. This isn’t making them better.

Also, this scenario you are proposing would lead them to icing one of the most horrific teams ever in 4-5 years.

Trading Guentzel for solid prospects that can all fill out the roster in that timeframe speeds up the rebuild.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Also, this scenario you are proposing would lead them to icing one of the most horrific teams ever in 4-5 years.

Trading Guentzel for solid prospects that can all fill out the roster in that timeframe speeds up the rebuild.

Not really. There’s a team or two like this every year. Look how catastrophic the Sharks and Hawks rosters were this year. They would be similar to that.

 

[BigVegas17]

I was fully expecting the Pens to be left holding the bag at 3PM ET today and Guentzel walking away for nothing. Getting a few lottery tickets for him is better than nothing.

More importantly, trading Jake is a clear step toward doing something different than what has been done since 2018 (FFS, finally...). The organization has been ignoring the obvious need for real change under the auspices of "One More Run!".

Hopefully this is the first domino to fall toward a full reset away from an old and slow roster trying to play a speed game designed for youthful legs and employed by a coach whose messages were stale 3+ years ago.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Do we have a lot of history of rentals getting two actual firsts?

You got the equivalent of two imo and more. Both Pono and Koivanen have increased their value since being second rounders, Bunting has value and the pick is a second that’s maybe a first. This is huge return.

Pono can play right now, Koivunen is probably ready next season. Value for now and the future. It’s a pretty huge win.

No.

But when lesser rentals like Monahan and henrique are getting firsts plus you expect more for guentzel.

Maybe those players will be good for the pens. Maybe they preferred them to whoever they could have selected with the 28th pick this year.

But on paper the return is underwhelming

 

[bleedgreen]

No.

But when lesser rentals like Monahan and henrique are getting firsts plus you expect more for guentzel.

Maybe those players will be good for the pens. Maybe they preferred them to whoever they could have selected with the 28th pick this year.

But on paper the return is underwhelming

You got so much more than those other returns lol. There have been few returns that I can think of historically that equal what you got for Jake as a rental. I can’t think of any that flat out exceed it.

 

[Voight]

I like how Canes fans, the ones familiar with these prospects, are saying it’s a decent/solid return for the Penguins, yet it’s a bunch of other fans saying how Dubas got bent over.

I hope Guentzel does well in Carolina and they go on a run. Think he should be a great fit there. I hope Koivunen and Ponomarev end up as good as Canes fans think they can be.

Has more to with the returns/wish lists you and many other Penguin fans were posting here the last week.

 

[Chrispy]

No.

But when lesser rentals like Monahan and henrique are getting firsts plus you expect more for guentzel.

Maybe those players will be good for the pens. Maybe they preferred them to whoever they could have selected with the 28th pick this year.

But on paper the return is underwhelming

Henrique got only a 1st and a 5th, had Anaheim retain 50%, and came along with another player also retained 50%.

Monahan was again only a 1st with a cup-winning condition on an additional pick.

The pick may drop 15 spots but it's more than made up for with two prospects who are near NHL ready, another college prospect, and an NHL player.

There are a lot of comments here about the depth of Carolina's prospect pool. The primary way they got that many good prospects was by realizing the value of a late first vs mid second isn't a significant drop-off. They trade back a lot in the draft, and traded out of the first round a couple years in a row to get more mid-round picks that turned into good prospects.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

People forget to realize that Jake still needs signed and Dubas was looking for ready now prospects.

He doesn't care about a guy that's ready to come up in 3 years when Crosby retires. That player wouldn't even fit into a "rebuild" timeline.

Trust me not all "Pens" fans expected a haul.

This was pretty in line with what I thought would happen and there is still a possibility Jake comes back to Pittsburgh next season.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

No.

But when lesser rentals like Monahan and henrique are getting firsts plus you expect more for guentzel.

Maybe those players will be good for the pens. Maybe they preferred them to whoever they could have selected with the 28th pick this year.

But on paper the return is underwhelming

Monahans and Henrique deals were nowhere close to this. People overvalue draft picks on this site way too much.

A late 20’s 1st rounder doesn’t hold too much weight over say a 40th pick.

Looking at a deal with a middle 6 player with term(that is paid appropriately and they can easily turn around and probably get a 2nd for), 3 good prospects (2 that are ready for the NHL soon), a 2nd (potential 1st), and a long shot 5th.

All for a dude to not be on the team for 20 games and honestly not a clue what he does or where he goes in the offseason.

The Ducks and Canadiens did well to get a first for these guys, but let’s not act like their deals are even in the same stratosphere as Guentzels deal.

 

[Voight]

Like you had a time machine and could predict that Karlsson would start to suck ass and that he would help tank the power play to the worst in the league? If Mike Sullivan is removed Karlsson might come alive again!

And again, Dubas job was to try and compete this year and next season with Karlsson, not suck ass with the other players mentioned, that would have happened!

Did it work out well? No, but at the time it was well worth the gamble!

To be fair, Karlsson has been ass the last couple of seasons. Everybody and their mother knew last season was an outlier.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

No.

But when lesser rentals like Monahan and henrique are getting firsts plus you expect more for guentzel.

Maybe those players will be good for the pens. Maybe they preferred them to whoever they could have selected with the 28th pick this year.

But on paper the return is underwhelming

Monahans and Henrique deals were no where close to this

 

[Nakawick]

Out of any team in the esst, I am glad he went to the Canes. Hopefully Jake helps them get over the hump.

 

[Ryder71]

Glad you’re adjusting to the results. It’s just so far from what had been expected. A young 20 goal scorer in Hoglander, a top tier prospect in Lekkerimaki, a first and more is what I was repeatedly told would be the cost. I honestly don’t know these prospects well enough, but given time to develop they can sure end up playing games in the NhL.

I never suggested we would get all three of those components, better check again.

Also, I don't think you're glad. I think you're being disingenuous.

 

[Zbynek]

Wait until the pens select in the top 10 this summer and next years 2025 1st given to the sharks is unprotected.

This is 100% happening

As pointed out above mate, the TDL is still today and more is yet to come. We thought losing Staal was it. Sutter was not great and the Pens didn't look good anymore but little did we know, the pieces we saw Shero get for Staal, later paid off in big ways.

But it all doesn't happen without realizing when to move on from bad coaches. That's the part you should be mad about. Not the return.

I hear you on your first point here, though the Staal trade comparison stings, as at least we got a guaranteed 1st out of it (#8 overall at that)...

As for the second point - can't you see this is all related? I'm coming to terms with the fact that Dubas is FSG's mouthpiece. It's not one or the other... it's all of it. The FSG era Penguins is just sad.