Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR/MTL] Habs accept Kotkaniemi offer sheet (1 year, $6.1M), 2022 1st, 2022 3rd [Part III]

[The Great Weal]

Unless the Hurricanes Pick is top 10 Dvorak cost more 1st and 2nd vs 1st and third. I would assume this is considered factual. Now if it's top 10 Then they are trading a not as high pick and a second.
Note I concur that this is possible I think it's unlikely however..

Dvorak also has term at a great contract unless you think that wasn't a factor at all

 

[Tryamw]

Dvorak also has term at a great contract unless you think that wasn't a factor at all

He has a reasonable one. Great Sorry Unless the player is a superstar on an ELC I can't give that grade
As to Kotkaniemi's? In a vacuum it's horrible. but as usual little happens in a vacuum in contracts.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He has a reasonable one. Great Sorry Unless the player is a superstar on an ELC I can't give that grade
As to Kotkaniemi's? In a vacuum it's horrible. but as usual little happens in a vacuum in contracts.

Very disappointing that you passed up a perfect opportunity to say "In a vacuum, it sucks".

 

[covfefe]

It would take a hell of a collapse for the Canes to drop that far. They finished 3rd overall last season. This year, a top-10 pick means finishing 23rd or lower. The Canes might not be as strong as last year, but surely they are still one of the twenty two best teams in the league.

If they finish 24th, guess who gets that 11th overall pick? Arizona. You want to talk about a costly trade, that would be a costly trade. So be careful what you wish for in terms of hoping for the Canes to struggle. It doesn't make the Habs look better if Carolina bombs the season and then you miss the payoff because you traded that pick away for Kotkaniemi's (your #3OA) replacement.

Even if we view the 1st round picks as a wash, it's a simple fact that a 2nd is worth more than a 3rd. So yes, in everything but monetary terms Dvorak did cost more to acquire.

Your hypothetical assumes that we possess some baseline abilities when it comes to drafting and developing, but let me tell you: we don't.

 

[bleedgreen]

I’m impressed people are still talking about this. It’s a one year deal that does nothing to the Canes salary structure. Maybe they get stuck in a tight contract spot because of the QO number. Maybe he re signs for less. He’s already playing everywhere in the lineup and has looked pretty good. It isn’t my favorite move we’ve made but the only “risk” for me personally is if the Canes bomb and it’s a high pick we give them while JK equally bombs. Yes that’s a risk but it’s highly unlikely the pick is in the top ten. It’s probably in the 20’s somewhere.

Who cares if the guy gets overpaid for one season? That’s the only way they weren’t going to match and it’s one season.

 

[Tryamw]

Very disappointing that you passed up a perfect opportunity to say "In a vacuum, it sucks".

I am duly Admonished... I'll have to shrink back and accept the punishment.. (Heavy on the puns)

 

[Theodore450]

Unless the Hurricanes Pick is top 10 Dvorak cost more 1st and 2nd vs 1st and third. I would assume this is considered factual. Now if it's top 10 Then they are trading a not as high pick and a second.
Note I concur that this is possible I think it's unlikely however..

It’s more about the possibility. I think it’s clear now more than ever that risk of top 10 holds more value than a 2nd.
I understand your assessment and it’s true it’s unlikely, but they team giving up the rights to their pick that might be high holds more value in my opinion

 

[Stubu]

Yes, the RFA offer sheet is a tool for RFAs to use to get fairly compensated, but no GM is going to make an offer sheet without thinking he can acquire the guy.

Just gotta disagree with this bit.

No, it's not a tool for the player to get fairly compensated, because the player cannot ever initiate the process himself; it's got to be by a GM of another team, for that other team's purposes, obviously. I mean, you don't call a "tool" what is simply not at your disposal to use. Unless you're a fool. And that wouldn't be cool.

Semantics, perhaps. Semantics is fun and important.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Canes fans, how has he looked?

 

[DaveG]

Canes fans, how has he looked?

Not bad honestly, though only having a couple preseason games there's not much to tell.

 

[Leksand]

To me the one year term and very likely late 1st round pick imply it likely won't be a big mistake - term is what kills IMO.

The one big caveat are the implications for this year's trade deadline isn't it? Say they are really good but KK is just so so and not integral part of that, then the diminished opportunity for addition to go for it will look significant.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

To me the one year term and very likely late 1st round pick imply it likely won't be a big mistake - term is what kills IMO.

The one big caveat is the implications for this year's trade deadline isn't it? Say they are really good but KK is just so so and not integral part of that, then the diminished opportunity for addition to go for it will look significant.

If they want to "go for it", they'll figure out a way. They still have 8 picks, a good prospect pool, and have shown over the past 3 years that they aren't afraid to make bold moves to go for it.

 

[Leksand]

If they want to "go for it", they'll figure out a way. They still have 8 picks, a good prospect pool, and have shown over the past 3 years that they aren't afraid to make bold moves to go for it.

So, I don't know the ins and outs here and may be missing something, but when I look at capfriendly - the Canes have $0 in trade deadline cap space (and they can't trade KK until after the full season including playoffs as I understand). Would that not look very different w/o the offer sheet?

 

[Twisted Sinister]

So, I don't know the ins and outs here and may be missing something, but when I look at capfriendly - the Canes have $0 in trade deadline cap space (and they can't trade KK until after the full season including playoffs as I understand). Would that not look very different w/o the offer sheet?

Canes can trade him. Habs would not have been able to if they matched.

That whole mechanism exists so a matching team can't punish a player for signing an offer sheet in the first place by trading him.

 

[spockBokk]

So, I don't know the ins and outs here and may be missing something, but when I look at capfriendly - the Canes have $0 in trade deadline cap space (and they can't trade KK until after the full season including playoffs as I understand). Would that not look very different w/o the offer sheet?

They can trade Kotkaniemi anywhere they so chose, pending of course a team wanting him and all that jazz. The no trade for a year after an offer sheet only applies to the team that matches the sheet.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So, I don't know the ins and outs here and may be missing something, but when I look at capfriendly - the Canes have $0 in trade deadline cap space (and they can't trade KK until after the full season including playoffs as I understand). Would that not look very different w/o the offer sheet?

A few things:

1) the Canes CAN trade Kotkaniemi whenever they want. The restriction for not trading him for a year is ONLY for a team that matches an offer sheet, so had MTL matched, they could not trade him, but there is no restriction in the CBA that prevents the Canes from trading him, should they want to. Was discussed earlier in one of the threads. (EDIT: and I see two others beat me to it).

2) There are some players, should they not be performing well, that the Canes could move to make space. It may cost something to do so, but it can be done.

3) Every year teams with cap concerns find a way to add when they need to. Sometimes it involves a 3rd team that gets paid to take cap space.


So YES, the cap space would look differently without KK. What we don't know is how much because the Canes were going to add another top 9 forward one way or another so it wouldn't be the full amount. Of course the closer one is to the cap limit, the more maneuvering they need to do to make deadline acquisitions work, but they usually do.

 

[Leksand]

A few things:

1) the Canes CAN trade Kotkaniemi whenever they want. The restriction for not trading him for a year is ONLY for a team that matches an offer sheet, so had MTL matched, they could not trade him, but there is no restriction in the CBA that prevents the Canes from trading him, should they want to. Was discussed earlier in one of the threads. (EDIT: and I see two others beat me to it).

2) There are some players, should they not be performing well, that the Canes could move to make space. It may cost something to do so, but it can be done.

3) Every year teams with cap concerns find a way to add when they need to. Sometimes it involves a 3rd team that gets paid to take cap space.


So YES, the cap space would look differently without KK. What we don't know is how much because the Canes were going to add another top 9 forward one way or another so it wouldn't be the full amount. Of course the closer one is to the cap limit, the more maneuvering they need to do to make deadline acquisitions work, but they usually do.

YES I was apparently wrong about trading KK, which makes the offer sheet even less of a risk even though for this one season it gotta have some potentially negative impact.

I have always seen it as not that big of a deal in substance dwarfed by the entertaining drama. I hope it turns out to be a slam dunk for the Canes for no particular reason and despite being a Caps fan.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Canes fans, how has he looked?

He fits in. Hustles defensively as Brind’Amour likes them to do, seems to get along decently well with his linemates. Skating issues come as advertised. He’s not dominating anyone out there.

That’s about all that can be said so far, preseason just doesn’t offer much to judge by.

 

[holy]

He fits in. Hustles defensively as Brind’Amour likes them to do, seems to get along decently well with his linemates. Skating issues come as advertised. He’s not dominating anyone out there.

That’s about all that can be said so far, preseason just doesn’t offer much to judge by.

Sounds like a complete bust to me.

 

[ONO94]

Well, to be fair, in a vacuum--KK sucks.

 

[Godzilla]

 

[AvatarAang]

Sounds like a complete bust to me.

imagine using your 3rd overall pick on a complete bust. While other teams used that pick to land potential franchise-changing talents like Heiskanen, Dach, stuetzle etc.

I guess it’s not surprising that habs fans are still desperately trying to convince everyone that Kotkaniemi sucks.

 

[Kranix]

Canes look absolutely stacked this year

 

[DaPhazz]

imagine using your 3rd overall pick on a complete bust. While other teams used that pick to land potential franchise-changing talents like Heiskanen, Dach, stuetzle etc.

I guess it’s not surprising that habs fans are still desperately trying to convince everyone that Kotkaniemi sucks.

Ding ding ding, wake up call, draft mistakes happen.

I was and I'm still a big KK fan since his draft, but gotta agree that he's not an impressive player so far (if you've seen him play more than 2-3 games actually)

 

[holy]

imagine using your 3rd overall pick on a complete bust. While other teams used that pick to land potential franchise-changing talents like Heiskanen, Dach, stuetzle etc.

I guess it’s not surprising that habs fans are still desperately trying to convince everyone that Kotkaniemi sucks.

Why imagine? It already happened. I get over things easy.

See your team tomorrow btw.