Face Of Bear
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2012
- 2,124
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this is would only be cap circumvention if toronto did it
Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR] F Seth Jarvis signs extension with the Hurricanes (8 years, $7.420087M AAV; deferred salary in 9th year)
- Thread starter Lunatik
- Start date
I’m struggling to understand what are actually the limits of compensation in non-contract years because until now it was thought to be 0.
If 1 mil salary 9 mil deferred is disallowed. Is 5 mil contract 5 mil deferred allowed? People have cited the ‘not too much up or down between two years of contract’ rule but do we know if that even applies to one year contracts? Obviously this is some ‘new math’ at work here and we can’t assume the existing language applies.
We’re finding out today some magical properties of compensation after contract completion. We can’t assume everything else we thought we knew about contract math is still applicable.
AcerComputer
Registered User
- Aug 4, 2014
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Romang67
BitterSwede
Anton Dubinchuk
aho
I mean, those teams are allowed to do this too…
KevinRedkey
12/18/23 and beyond!
- Jan 22, 2010
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Not really a fan of the unusual structure, but I don't blame Carolina of Jarvis for it one bit.
Hunter368
RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
- Nov 8, 2011
- 27,401
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NHL not hard to
you would think NHL could hire half decent lawyers to figure this out and prevent it. Every cap circumvention was not inventive or hard to avoid just bad working or lack of wording in CBA. Silly
The more and more of this crap we get, the more and more I hate the salary cap.
When it was a set of rules for valuing players and constraining team building, with a goal for cost certainty and fairness between big and small market teams, it was actually pretty fun. It put GM's in the driver's seats of their team's competitiveness, which is a downside to an actual ice hockey league, but it was fun from a fan perspective for those of us who enjoy team-building.
But the longer it goes on, the more it becomes about having teams of lawyers pouring over the CBA to find and exploit loopholes until the NHL decides to pounce, the less fun it is. I like the NHL because I want to watch hockey teams, not GM's having a scheme-off like it's Spy vs Spy.
Close the freaking loopholes and enforce the spirit of the cap, not just the law. Having a Byzantine tax code of a salary cap is no fun for fans because we cannot follow it, doesn't even deliver the cost certainty that is the fundamental premise of the salary cap from the owner's perspective, and is ultimately unfair because the NHL will always be subjective in who they punish for transgressions.
The Tanev contract is bogus. Mark Stone going on LTIR every year until the playoffs is bogus. These deferred payments are bogus. End them. But instead the league is just going to shrug and then have a lockout in five years when they realize these deferred payments have completely screwed up the Hockey Related Revenue calculations for the salary cap and that it led to an immediate inflation of contracts.
When it was a set of rules for valuing players and constraining team building, with a goal for cost certainty and fairness between big and small market teams, it was actually pretty fun. It put GM's in the driver's seats of their team's competitiveness, which is a downside to an actual ice hockey league, but it was fun from a fan perspective for those of us who enjoy team-building.
But the longer it goes on, the more it becomes about having teams of lawyers pouring over the CBA to find and exploit loopholes until the NHL decides to pounce, the less fun it is. I like the NHL because I want to watch hockey teams, not GM's having a scheme-off like it's Spy vs Spy.
Close the freaking loopholes and enforce the spirit of the cap, not just the law. Having a Byzantine tax code of a salary cap is no fun for fans because we cannot follow it, doesn't even deliver the cost certainty that is the fundamental premise of the salary cap from the owner's perspective, and is ultimately unfair because the NHL will always be subjective in who they punish for transgressions.
The Tanev contract is bogus. Mark Stone going on LTIR every year until the playoffs is bogus. These deferred payments are bogus. End them. But instead the league is just going to shrug and then have a lockout in five years when they realize these deferred payments have completely screwed up the Hockey Related Revenue calculations for the salary cap and that it led to an immediate inflation of contracts.
Clint Eastwood
Eff the Habs
Sources: Hurricanes and Seth Jarvis agree to $63.2 million contract with unique deferred structure
The Carolina Hurricanes and restricted free agent Seth Jarvis have agreed to terms on a new eight-year, $63.2 million contract,...www.dailyfaceoff.com
I think this is going to open a massive can of worms, and will eventually be taken out of the next CBA.
Didn't Jonathan Marchessault say Vegas' final offer was something like this? I thought he mentioned them doing a "weird, unique" offer to him before he hit FA.
McKenzie : “there’s a present-day dollars calculation that is done on the deferred money and that is where, under the right set of circumstances, it could have an influence on the AAV.“
I really would love to see the math on this. Because it’s all taking place behind the curtain the fans are left not knowing the potential level of abuse this opens the door to.
I don’t care that much about the Canes saving a few hundred grand on this contract’s cap hit. I do care if this is just the tip of the iceberg that allows deep pocketed teams to make huge off cap bonus payments to free agents. And we clearly don’t know the limits yet.
I really would love to see the math on this. Because it’s all taking place behind the curtain the fans are left not knowing the potential level of abuse this opens the door to.
I don’t care that much about the Canes saving a few hundred grand on this contract’s cap hit. I do care if this is just the tip of the iceberg that allows deep pocketed teams to make huge off cap bonus payments to free agents. And we clearly don’t know the limits yet.
Don’t like the rules, change the rules.
In the meantime, teams that have piled up an awful lot of wins over the last 5 years are gonna keep doing what they can to win.
In the meantime, teams that have piled up an awful lot of wins over the last 5 years are gonna keep doing what they can to win.
Reality Czech
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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Kristopher Letang
RIP Nipsey
StickShift
In a pickle 🥒
I typically really enjoy Carolina’s social media team—but the celebration and memes they are posting around this contract extension feel a bit tone deaf considering what the hockey world is going through. Surely they could’ve held off on this news for a week?
CanadienShark
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2012
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Uhmmm.... Interesting. I'll have to read more into this, but at first glance the AAV looks great.
MasterofGrond
No, I'm not serious.
Am I reading the CBA completely incorrectly, or is Servalli a moron?
This is the same as baseball. The cap hit is decreased (according to a known formula) because the payment is earned later and therefore less valuable to the player earning it than money put in their account today is. This is finance 101. It's also not circumvention, because the player is agreeing to take a less valuable deal, so of course the value of the contract should be lower.
This is the same as baseball. The cap hit is decreased (according to a known formula) because the payment is earned later and therefore less valuable to the player earning it than money put in their account today is. This is finance 101. It's also not circumvention, because the player is agreeing to take a less valuable deal, so of course the value of the contract should be lower.
cptjeff
Reprehensible User
The Devils were punished for the first attempt at a contract, the 17 year one. They approved the 15 year one, which was still blatant and obvious circumvention but less blatant and obvious- it was only marginally shorter, but it was also a lot less frontloaded. The 17 year one maximized the money up front and was a million a year for half of the entire contract.
The league shouldn't have approved the 15 year one either, but that's not the one the Devils were "punished" (in reality, they never actually had to give up the pick, so they weren't punished at all) for.
DeVols
#VFL
If it makes you feel any better we still hear about the trap.
deca guard
Registered User
all signs keep pointing to raymonds contract being higher than originally anticipated as hes imo worth more than jarvis . yzerman would thusly seem to need a trade for cap space . does the sjs walman for future considerations trade end up being sjs taking a cap hit such as holl or maybe husso from detroit ? i know everybody says futures never mean anything , but to me its the only way the walman plus a 2nd to sjs makes sense . could be waiting on husso proving to be healthy in camp
Pip
Registered User
Cap circumvention that’ll be stopped once a team gets a bit too greedy with it. However I’m a fan of doing whatever you can within the rules to get an advantage.
I expect the league will rule deferred payments still need to meet the rules about how large the variance can be from year to year in contracts, making these huge hypothetical deferrals illegal.
I also expect a change in the CBA to make that deferred payment count against the year 9 cap. I can’t see the league continuing to allow compensation outside the cap. They will find a way to capture it on a teams payroll.
Still a smart move by Carolina to gain some space over the next 8 years at the expense of a potential year 9 cap hit with a rule change.
I also expect a change in the CBA to make that deferred payment count against the year 9 cap. I can’t see the league continuing to allow compensation outside the cap. They will find a way to capture it on a teams payroll.
Still a smart move by Carolina to gain some space over the next 8 years at the expense of a potential year 9 cap hit with a rule change.
It’s just going to be math around the NPV of money etc. It really can only be mega abused if the signing bonus doesn’t have to follow current contract structures in the CBA.
From my quick read the contract has to follow those rules and the savings comes from the fact the signing bonus is paid the day after the contract expires. If that’s the case then the max is already defined. Big contracts will get a bigger benefit so that could be an issue.
