Proposal: CAR - CGY Blockbuster

[MinJaBen]

The biggest problem with this deal is that it doesn't move the needle for either team. Both teams would walk away. Give great forward and good defenseman for a very good forward and a very good defenseman? Why bother.

Too much risk that changes in environment for both sides would reduce the known good performance of affected players.

 

[Dertell]

He spent 6x as much time playing with noted all-world top pairing defenseman Ron Hainsey than Slavin so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

...right. My bad. That's still a x1000 time better partner.

 

[go4hockey]

The difference between Gaudreau and Skinner is only slightly more than Faulk and Hamilton..

The gap between Faulk and Hamilton is much bigger than the gap between Skinner and Gaudreau. And Faulk is the most valuable piece in the deal.

 

[DJJones]

I'll admit I only saw probably 3 or 4 Carolina games last year. Probably my least watched team in the league actually.

So if Faulks PP numbers fall back from heaven and he ends next year with 12-15 goals are you guys still going to think he's a top 20 defense? Genuinely curious.

He got 4 goals in 64 games on 5 on 5. How is that not a red flag

 

[kdog82]

Flames are getting seriously duped here.

 

[Ole Gil]

As a Canes fan, I'd probably do this.

Canes have lots of dmen. They can't score. Going from a 30-20 guy to a 30-50 guy would be a big deal. And from Faulk to Hamilton probably wouldn't hurt them too much on the back end as Hanifin/Slavin/Pesce all go into their 2nd year. (And Fleury/McKeown/Bean waiting in the wings).

The only worry is that Gaudreau is just coming off a big year, and settles in closer to a 60 point guy than an 80 point guy. But I'd probably take that risk.

I think the Canes are in that Edmonton situation reversed. They've got all these dmen and no great forwards. At some point, they are going to have to pull the trigger. I'd rather they do it for a great deal then wait too long and feel forced to do a Hall for Larsson type trade that feels unbalanced.

 

[1Boliever]

The gap between Faulk and Hamilton is much bigger than the gap between Skinner and Gaudreau. And Faulk is the most valuable piece in the deal.

This is not even remotely close to being true.

 

[Paper]

I think in a vacuum the players are roughly equal in skill.

Faulk's contract, despite having a year less than Hamilton's, is significantly better given he's the better player on a better contract.

However, the Flames don't need Faulk as much as they need Gaudreau. Brodie, Giordano and Hamilton are more than adequate top 3 defenders. Brodie, Faulk and Giordano would be overkill. On the other end they have Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Only way I see the Flames doing this is if Gaudreau is asking too much. In which case maybe the contract money for Gaudreau and Hamilton is too much compared to Skinner and Faulk.

 

[InfinityIggy]

No thank you. Skinner is a huge downgrade on Gaudreau while Hamilton is still young enough he could* get close to Faulk's level.

 

[GoldiFox]

I'll admit I only saw probably 3 or 4 Carolina games last year. Probably my least watched team in the league actually.

So if Faulks PP numbers fall back from heaven and he ends next year with 12-15 goals are you guys still going to think he's a top 20 defense? Genuinely curious.

He got 4 goals in 64 games on 5 on 5. How is that not a red flag

Faulk was considered a top-20 D before last year started. He has shown solid #1 ability for about 3 years in a row now.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

if im a flames fan: i dont do this bc gaudreau is a beast

if im a canes fan (which i am): i dont do this bc faulk is a beast

if im a flames fan: i dont do this bc i dont need defense

if im a canes fan: i *maybe* consider this bc canes need offense more than d. but skinner is still 24 and a year older than gaudreau and no slouch like people write him off as because since gaudreau is good skinner must be super bad.


in the end the canes just need to stay pat right now bc with all the youngsters we really dont have a handle on how good/bad/ugly our offense will be so no need to mortgage defense for offense right now (maybe next year).

in the end the flames need to not trade gaudreau bc hes an exciting young player that franchise love to market and have and win with.


now everyone separate and say 3 nice things about the other's team, i will start:

1) jarome iginla is super cool
2) miikka kiprusoff is super cool
3) theo fleury is super cool

 

[HydroF]

This doesn't make an sense for the Flames. Flames don't have the forward depth to take the huge downgrade going from Gaudreau to Skinner. Defense is already solid for Flames, they needed coaching change more than big personnel changes to improve defensive performance imo.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Calgary respectfully passes.

The Calgary duo is better then the Carolina duo.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Neutral fan here: I think the value favours Carolina with exposure to each set of players being limited to games that each has played the Leafs and todays stats. If I'm picking which side of this I want to acquire today, I take Gaudreau + Hamilton

Could change depending on how each trends, but Gaudreau could also jump into the Patrick Kane stratosphere

Calgary probably gets diminishing returns on Faulk because of the D corps depth as well

 

[He Is Knocking]

Easy pass for Calgary. Gaudreau is the best piece and the difference between Hamilton and Faulk doesn't come close to bridging the gap between Gaudreau and Skinner.

 

[GoldiFox]

Skinner's the better goal scorer and the Canes need goals. Doesn't make much sense for either team. Hamilton would leave them without a #1 on the right side.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

small upgrade?

Maybe he means literal size.

Skinner's the better goal scorer and the Canes need goals. Doesn't make much sense for either team. Hamilton would leave them without a #1 on the right side.

Skinner (when he has a good year) hovers around 30 goals. Gaudreau scored 30 goals last year. I don't see how you can possibly make the claim that Skinner is a notably better goal scorer.

 

[DJJones]

Faulk was considered a top-20 D before last year started. He has shown solid #1 ability for about 3 years in a row now.

http://www2.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=10465

40th (Dougie was 41st)

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/an...semen-rankings-for-2015-16-203303273-nhl.html

Not in the top 25. Honorable Mention.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-defensemen-for-the-2014-15-nhl-season/page/7

#37


https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/46mzkv/evaluating_the_nhls_top_defensemen_and/

Much too lazy to see where he ranks but not top 25. (advanced stats heavy)

Like I respect the guy for getting 12 goals in 28 games. That`s just ridiculous, but I think people are putting to much weight on PP goals.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Flames say no. John Gilmour just signed an NHL contract with the Rangers. Flames had no interest in him. He was at best our 10th best defensive prospect. I think that speaks to our depth on the blue line.

 

[GoldiFox]

http://www2.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=10465

40th (Dougie was 41st)

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/an...semen-rankings-for-2015-16-203303273-nhl.html

Not in the top 25. Honorable Mention.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-defensemen-for-the-2014-15-nhl-season/page/7

#37


https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/46mzkv/evaluating_the_nhls_top_defensemen_and/

Much too lazy to see where he ranks but not top 25. (advanced stats heavy)

Like I respect the guy for getting 12 goals in 28 games. That`s just ridiculous, but I think people are putting to much weight on PP goals.

A fantasy article from 2014, Yahoo, and Bleacher Report? That's what you got?

Solid #analysis

 

[InfinityIggy]

Skinner's the better goal scorer and the Canes need goals. Doesn't make much sense for either team. Hamilton would leave them without a #1 on the right side.

Is he?

Skinner career GPG: 0.342
Gaudreau career GPG: 0.344

Pretty much identical.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

A fantasy article from 2014, Yahoo, and Bleacher Report? That's what you got?

Solid #analysis

What's your backing evidence, aside from "because I said so"?

 

[GoldiFox]

What's your backing evidence, aside from "because I said so"?

Essentially every hf poll and post about top-30 or #1 Dman rankings that has been conducted since the end of the 14-15 season? I'm sure you can find them if you look.

Says who? The polls. All of them.

 

[GoldiFox]

Is he?

Skinner career GPG: 0.342
Gaudreau career GPG: 0.344

Pretty much identical.

I find that pretty impressive given the talent Skinner has been surrounded with combined with his team's system which scores a lot fewer goals.

 

[DuncanKinney]

Johnny Gaudreau
Dougie Hamilton



Jeff Skinner
Justin Faulk

This is the basis of a fair hockey trade I think, as a fan of neither of team. Gaudreau is obviously an improvement over Skinner by leaps and bounds, and there's a smaller but still significant gap between Hamilton and Faulk. However, being that D are worth more than F, the jump from Skinner to Gaudreau is comparable in overall value.

Never in a million years.