I don't know how many turds the Ovie and Kuzy duo have to drop before Spencer realizes its not working.
2018 was forever ago and he wasn't even here.
Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition
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2018 was forever ago and he wasn't even here.
Athletic has posted their updated player cards. If you have trouble coping with feelings of grief, melancholy or general sadness, I highly recommend not looking at them. Now available for your viewing displeasure here.
Calicaps
NFA
Yeah, best get rid of that avatar. It was forever ago.
Spencer is navigating being a rookie HC who's just a few years older than his all-time-great captain and having a 1C who could be a world-beater but doesn't GAF. And we're still just in the first two months of the season. Folks need to chill. Is Ovie done? Maybe. I sure hope not, but maybe. And either way Carbery is doing pretty damned well so far.
The roster's gotten a lot younger overall; 19 and 77 are both off the roster for all intents and purposes; and they're third in the Metro. The team is not the disaster most here were predicting during the summer. They're plainly not a contender at this point, but does anyone here think they should have been? They're already better than I think anyone expected.
Agreed. I honestly think he'll turn it up soon. Lots of new pieces, new coach, and it usually takes a team until Dec or Jan to gel. Being older he has to adapt more than rely on his pure skill level. Perhaps they'll change him in the PP1 situation instead of teams expecting the predictable spot. I imagine he has a lot going on in his head too with Backstrom gone, family life, and that record. I certainly agree folks should chill. I mean we have home grown prospects making the NHL jump after winning the Calder Cup. I very impressed with their record so far and not focusing on the negatives like losing 5-0. They were in that San Jose game the whole game and the same with the Kings. I like the position the Caps are currently in compared to what I expected over the summer. While the lack of scoring is disturbing by the team overall, they seem committed to play together and not sulk. I'm really liking Mantha's synergy with McMichael and yes everyone read that correctly, lol. As much as I bitched about Mantha the last two years, I want him to succeed and do what he's doing now.
Never!
I do like what Carberry has done overall. It's just his weakness is dealing with Kuznetsov, and it's painful to see him continue to play with Ovie. But you're right, it's a long season.
Calicaps
NFA
I'm not sure it's a weakness. Could be. But really, if Carbery thinks he can get 92 going, it's worth him having patience. Kuz is untradeable at this point so it's either have $8M contributing or eating nachos. Those are the choices. Carbery's trying everything to achieve the best possible outcome... what else can he do?
Devil Dancer
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2006
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My hopes for Carbs were get Mantha going, get Kuz going and play the kids where appropriate. 2/3 ain't bad!
Getting Kuznetsov going is fine. Dragging down Ovie with him is not.
And there are many options in between 1C and nacho duty.
Ok, that’s enough.
Stop it, sir. Just please stop it. It’s intervention time.
HF Futures Board friends don’t let other HF Futures Board friends do “first line hockey jockey”.
We just don’t. Seek help my friend, we are all here for you (especially @twabby)
SherVaughn30
Registered User
trick9
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2013
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It was already mentioned above that there are no reason to drag Ovechkin down with him as he's getting older.
He isn't good offensively and he's putrid defensively... so what's the solution? How about treat him like you treat any immature young player that makes dumb mistakes? He may be veteran but in terms of his attitude and how he plays well... he's just not veteran. Accountability. That's all i want. Kuznetsov with his play has not earned the veteran status that just goes through high's and low's. There are a lot of times where he's just plain lacking effort.
It's easy. How about treat him like you treat any other pure offensive player on the roster? We've seen it with McMichael, where he makes dumb mistake and sits for it. We've seen it with Protas, same thing. We constantly see it with Phillips, we've seen it with Strome. We saw it last time from Milano. He let Carlsson walk past him and after that he played ~4 minutes rest of the game.
Why is one guy on the roster untouchable? Especially given that this isn't an occasional mistake from a veteran player. It's consistent lack of effort from a veteran player who already has the reputation of one of the laziest players in the league?
To me it seems obvious that this team isn't a team with much star power. They get by with excellent defending and great team-effort. It's time to stop giving guys like Kuznetsov priviledges and start treating them like you treat your other players. You don't need to bench him, atleast straight away. There is an easy solution to just drop him down to the line that has whichever combination of Phillips and Milano playing. That line is already down somewhere between ~10-14 minutes so just drop his minutes down there and make him work for his minutes.
- Feb 15, 2005
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One reason to treat him with kid gloves would be if he's playing through some kind of physical impairment other than just the deterioration that comes with age and the mileage on his body. Folks in last night's GDT were alluding to marks on his neck perhaps being linked to some of the stiffness and limited mobility we're seeing.
That said, still think he'd benefit from shedding a few, since being a bit lighter on his feet would help with agility, first step, starts and stops, and reversals - all of which are very, very no bueno. Also, his ability to receive a pass has plummeted off the table this season, and again almost cost us a shorty last night.
And yet with all that, he still got 2 assists last night, and remains our leading scorer. So how do you not keep putting him out there?
But why he's on the ice with Kuzy and not Strome is a mystery. Maybe it's for Kuzy's benefit - being on the ice w/8 somehow ups Kuzy's accountability and responsibility as a player.
It's Kuzy though - nobody knows anything, except what they see, which is also pretty no bueno - except that he appears to be (along with 24) one of the few forwards that is capable of carrying the puck up ice and into the zone. Maybe that's why he's more valuable to us than any other team - most of which have more than 2 guys who can do that..
That said, still think he'd benefit from shedding a few, since being a bit lighter on his feet would help with agility, first step, starts and stops, and reversals - all of which are very, very no bueno. Also, his ability to receive a pass has plummeted off the table this season, and again almost cost us a shorty last night.
And yet with all that, he still got 2 assists last night, and remains our leading scorer. So how do you not keep putting him out there?
But why he's on the ice with Kuzy and not Strome is a mystery. Maybe it's for Kuzy's benefit - being on the ice w/8 somehow ups Kuzy's accountability and responsibility as a player.
It's Kuzy though - nobody knows anything, except what they see, which is also pretty no bueno - except that he appears to be (along with 24) one of the few forwards that is capable of carrying the puck up ice and into the zone. Maybe that's why he's more valuable to us than any other team - most of which have more than 2 guys who can do that..
I agree 100%, especially since they keep winning. Hopefully they can keep winning and get 92 to play at a remotely respectable level. It's tough though. Fair or not, the moment Kuznetsov stops getting good minutes and PP time, his play will plummet even further. And to your point, he will end up an $8M scratch.
What's tricky is, I'm not sure having Kuznetsov and Oshie both playing at the same time is sustainable. You can have one of them attempting to rehab their game. But both is extremely disruptive to their forward lines.
Many wanted to see Miro & Ovie in the same line, but it would feel weird in Hershey jersey!
trick9
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2013
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Sorry, its friday so my reading no good
But kuzy would take a spot from Lapierre and CMM after they are sent down so better to keep him at our first line. Maybe if they increase his icetime a bit he will break out.
I wouldn’t expect him in the line up before the new year. Once he returns, he’s probably going to need a month of game time before he makes any significant contributions.
Calicaps
NFA
So much here. Let me start with, wherever you put Kuz, he's dragging someone down. The vets are gonna be better able to handle it than the young'ns who need to be put in positions to succeed at this stage--or even than a guy like Mantha who's confidence was in the shitter and needed to have some success to get back on track.
You don't treat him like any other player on the roster, because, well, he's not. He makes $8M a year and could, if he wanted, be the best player on the team. As for McMike, this coaching regime has not done any of the things you mention. Phillips is a marginal NHLer. Strome and Milano are both struggling a bit. Sitting them might not be punitive so much as just... we need to win the game. Put the guys who are going out there.
Kuz is not untouchable. He's just here. And he's paid a shit-ton to perform. Carbery is focused on trying to get at least some of that money's worth and is smart enough to know that Kuz doesn't actually GAF so sitting him isn't going to make a difference. Good coaches treat players differently based on experience, temperament, etc. The only strategy that might work for Kuz is putting him in a position where he's having fun. That's it. That's all 92 cares about.
All this punishment envy is indicative of folks who've never managed anyone. People are different. They respond to various levers differently. The guy who cares about his ice time and his place in the lineup will respond to having ice time cut or being demoted a line. Kuz though, he probably likes nachos, so telling him he can watch hockey and eat nachos, maybe with his wife and kids in the box, isn't gonna motivate him to play better--he'll just enjoy eating nachos and watching hockey.
Ovechkins Wodka
Registered User
Ovechkins Wodka
Registered User
Not going to lie. Eating Nachos and watching hockey sounds like a good friday night lol
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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Punishment envy….it’s funny….the last two years, you’ve got a small number of posters here who have railed on about that…..last year it was ”CMM makes a mistake and he’s benched”….first off I think that view is plain wrong but at a minimum simplistic and oblivious to your “people management“ point and all the things that go on behind the scenes that impact lineup decisions that we have zero clue about….they pull out and insert young players all the time in the NHL…..I rarely see lineup changes as punitive, more the opposite, try to find another spark with a different player, and give the pulled player a chance to reflect and reset.
Eller was that guy last year, the focus is now firmly on Kuzy (and Oshie, and even Ovi feeling their heat)….
And yeah, I’d maybe try it with 92, but I doubt benching him is making him reflect…..sending him to Hershey might though!
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
- 31,577
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Carbery is Kuzy's 5th head coach in the NHL. It's the 3rd time Kuzy's had a rookie coach. The other 2 were grizzled veterans.
Every one of these coaches has had different philosophies, systems, and methods for dealing with players.
Kuzy caught fire basically once or twice in all those years when the whole "core" was on the way up.
Now he's putting up numbers similar to when he first broke into the league.
Maybe most telling is the decline in hitting. Yes the hit stat is fairly subjective but he's been somewhat consistent in his career at somewhere around 0.5 hits per game, until this season (4 hits in 18 games...less than half his usual pace).
This is despite the highest TOI/G in his career.
He's only 31 years old. He's not so fragile that he has to float and avoid contact. This is just an indication of his commitment to playing for this franchise vs avoiding injury for his next deal, imo.
Kuznetsov is a net-negative on the ice and possibly off it. They have to do something about this even if it carries a cost similar to Panik because if the rot isn't removed it will spread. Maybe it already has.
Every one of these coaches has had different philosophies, systems, and methods for dealing with players.
Kuzy caught fire basically once or twice in all those years when the whole "core" was on the way up.
Now he's putting up numbers similar to when he first broke into the league.
Maybe most telling is the decline in hitting. Yes the hit stat is fairly subjective but he's been somewhat consistent in his career at somewhere around 0.5 hits per game, until this season (4 hits in 18 games...less than half his usual pace).
This is despite the highest TOI/G in his career.
He's only 31 years old. He's not so fragile that he has to float and avoid contact. This is just an indication of his commitment to playing for this franchise vs avoiding injury for his next deal, imo.
Kuznetsov is a net-negative on the ice and possibly off it. They have to do something about this even if it carries a cost similar to Panik because if the rot isn't removed it will spread. Maybe it already has.
Calicaps
NFA
Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to see 92 gone. But he's got a significant NTC and is expensive for this year and next. Unless he starts performing well enough for some GM to want him, he's gonna cost a lot more than Panik did to unload. So might as well keep trying to get him to play better and be more marketable.
Calicaps
NFA
It might, but that's the last thing I would do. Hershey is juggernaut that is currently churning out championship-caliber youngsters. No way do I want to infect that culture with the likes of Kuzy. Better to ride out the rest of his contract while the big club is in a retool and let the prospects develop and eventually replace him.Punishment envy….it’s funny….the last two years, you’ve got a small number of posters here who have railed on about that…..last year it was ”CMM makes a mistake and he’s benched”….first off I think that view is plain wrong but at a minimum simplistic and oblivious to your “people management“ point and all the things that go on behind the scenes that impact lineup decisions that we have zero clue about….they pull out and insert young players all the time in the NHL…..I rarely see lineup changes as punitive, more the opposite, try to find another spark with a different player, and give the pulled player a chance to reflect and reset.
Eller was that guy last year, the focus is now firmly on Kuzy (and Oshie, and even Ovi feeling their heat)….
And yeah, I’d maybe try it with 92, but I doubt benching him is making him reflect…..sending him to Hershey might though!
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