Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[Corby78]

You always try to make the playoffs. Tanking is for losers.

Yes, teams who are losers and aren’t going anywhere should tank. It benefited us last year.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Yes, teams who are losers and aren’t going anywhere should tank. It benefited us last year.

Sure benefitted the Skins as well.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Like the Hawks who got Bedard and are winning the tank game this season?

Yep….about to miss the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 seasons, 4 straight….…..losers.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Yep….about to miss the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 seasons, 4 straight….…..losers.

I don’t know if you’re teasing me but you would not take their three Stanley cups and then selling off Kane and Toews to get Connor Bedard plus having the top overall odds in this draft

 

[bacchist]

I don’t know if you’re teasing me but you would not take their three Stanley cups and then selling off Kane and Toews to get Connor Bedard plus having the top overall odds in this draft

They aren't making the playoffs this year... if they don't make it next year, that will mark a decade without getting out of the first round of the playoffs. As it is, they've only won a single playoff game since the 2015-2016 season (when they lost in the 1st round)

Losers, brah.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

They aren't making the playoffs this year... if they don't make it next year, that will mark a decade without getting out of the first round of the playoffs. As it is, they've only won a single playoff game since the 2015-2016 season (when they lost in the 1st round)

Losers, brah.

Definitely not losers and might have to be studied on how to actually do a rebuild because they’ve done it twice

And I’ll wager their future is a lot brighter with Bedard and their first overall lottery pick

 

[barriers]

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t know if you’re teasing me but you would not take their three Stanley cups and then selling off Kane and Toews to get Connor Bedard plus having the top overall odds in this draft

Big deal, they got lucky enough to get one great player….while currently in near a decade of losing…but to answer you, I’d choose to stay a Caps fans with our one Cup and a non-scummy aura around the franchise.

 

[pman25]

Feels like they need to finish somewhere around 93-95 points to be with Philly / Tampa / Detroit for the last spots. Tall order.

That would mean going something like 15-9-3 at a minimum down the stretch here. Not impossible, they were around the point percentage in the Fall, but yeah will be tough

 

[Empty Goal Net]

They aren't making the playoffs this year... if they don't make it next year, that will mark a decade without getting out of the first round of the playoffs. As it is, they've only won a single playoff game since the 2015-2016 season (when they lost in the 1st round)

Losers, brah.

Caps are on their way to a similar record. They have half a decade w/o getting out of R1.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Caps are on their way to a similar record. They have half a decade w/o getting out of R1.

But not 6/7 missing the playoffs also including 4 straight….it’s not even close to the same level of failure…

 

[Calicaps]

But not 6/7 missing the playoffs also including 4 straight….it’s not even close to the same level of failure…

Both winning and losing are contagious. The difference is winning is hard, but losing is easy. Always aim to win because once the ship is on the "we accept/embrace losing" path, it's mighty hard to turn around.

 

[pman25]

I’ll take round 1 losses any year. Hell a couple playoff wins is enough to keep me hooked. A playoff series win and I’ll hold on to that for years! Winning a cup is hard and comes down to luck most of the time. Just making it to there is good enough

Be careful what you wish for, don’t wanna be Buffalo always picking 8th overall

 

[Holtbyisms]

I’ll take round 1 losses any year. Hell a couple playoff wins is enough to keep me hooked. A playoff series win and I’ll hold on to that for years! Winning a cup is hard and comes down to luck most of the time. Just making it to there is good enough

Be careful what you wish for, don’t wanna be Buffalo always picking 8th overall

You also don't want to be the wildcard team every year and draft 15th. You'll never be able to acquire top end talent to be a real contender. Let us not forget the two guys who saved this franchise, turned DC into a hockey town and created the dynasty were rapidly approaching the end of were drafted #1 and #4 overall. You don't do that with a bunch of 15th-18th overall picks.

 

[MileHighCapsFan]

You also don't want to be the wildcard team every year and draft 15th. You'll never be able to acquire top end talent to be a real contender. Let us not forget the two guys who saved this franchise, turned DC into a hockey town and created the dynasty were rapidly approaching the end of were drafted #1 and #4 overall. You don't do that with a bunch of 15th-18th overall picks.

Those picks were the difference makers after decades of Lemieux, Jagr, Patrick Div/East Conference 2nd/3rd rds.

 

[traparatus]

You always try to make the playoffs. Tanking is for losers.

That's very high and mighty. Any success this team has had in the last two decades is in big part due to a 1st overall pick. Were they trying to make the playoffs when they got that pick?

These is only one way NHL teams build a long-term contender and that's by drafting at the top. Continuously 'contending' for 8th spot leaves you utterly mediocre and with no way up. Like it, don't like it but that's the way this league is set up.

 

[bacchist]

That's very high and mighty. Any success this team has had in the last two decades is in big part due to a 1st overall pick. Were they trying to make the playoffs when they got that pick?

These is only one way NHL teams build a long-term contender and that's by drafting at the top. Continuously 'contending' for 8th spot leaves you utterly mediocre and with no way up. Like it, don't like it but that's the way this league is set up.

How is that working out for Buffalo? And didn't the Oillers have like 3 consecutive 1OA picks and still end up garbage a few years later and pick McDavid, And even after getting a generational talent, they still had to endure several more years of mediocrity. And they still haven't won a single championship, much less put together some kind of dynasty.

Losing a lot doesn't make you some kind of mastermind.

 

[alphabetical]

How is that working out for Buffalo? And didn't the Oillers have like 3 consecutive 1OA picks and still end up garbage a few years later and pick McDavid, And even after getting a generational talent, they still had to endure several more years of mediocrity. And they still haven't won a single championship, much less put together some kind of dynasty.

Losing a lot doesn't make you some kind of mastermind.

The Blackhawks missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 times before winning the cup 3 times in the next 7 years. The kings missed the playoffs 6 times in a row before winning the cup twice in the next 5 seasons. The penguins missed the playoffs 4 times in a row before starting a streak of making the playoffs for 16 straight seasons with 3 cup wins. That's just this century.

I don't think your argument makes sense. Not every team that misses the playoffs is buffalo.

 

[traparatus]

How is that working out for Buffalo? And didn't the Oillers have like 3 consecutive 1OA picks and still end up garbage a few years later and pick McDavid, And even after getting a generational talent, they still had to endure several more years of mediocrity. And they still haven't won a single championship, much less put together some kind of dynasty.

Losing a lot doesn't make you some kind of mastermind.

Examples of tanking teams failing are not a reason not to tank. You need examples of teams who do not tank succeeding.

Tanking is how you build contending teams in this league. Next time Caps are contending for a Cup it will be because of core group that they picked at the top of the draft, just like it is for everybody else.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The Blackhawks missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 times before winning the cup 3 times in the next 7 years. The kings missed the playoffs 6 times in a row before winning the cup twice in the next 5 seasons. The penguins missed the playoffs 4 times in a row before starting a streak of making the playoffs for 16 straight seasons with 3 cup wins. That's just this century.

I don't think your argument makes sense. Not every team that misses the playoffs is buffalo.

Using two outliers as an example isn’t changing many minds IMO….every team that loses a lot aren’t winning 3 Cups in short order. Those two are the exception…not the rule.

 

[alphabetical]

Using two outliers as an example isn’t changing any minds IMO….

It's 3 examples. (Mod edit)

 

[bacchist]

Examples of tanking teams failing are not a reason not to tank. You need examples of teams who do not tank succeeding.

Tanking is how you build contending teams in this league. Next time Caps are contending for a Cup it will be because of core group that they picked at the top of the draft, just like it is for everybody else.

I am absolutely not buying that every team that missed the playoffs or had a high draft pick ended up that way because they tanked. That's pretty ridiculous, actually. Half the league doesn't make the playoffs in any given year. Teams have good years and bad years, and the league wants parity.

Teams do have to rebuild from time to time, and part of that is often seeing the writing on the wall and making hard decisions that make your team worse in the short term in order to build for the future. But they are hard decisions and it entails a lot of risk and uncertainty. That is not "tanking". Losing might be a byproduct, but it's not the goal, and it's not easy for anyone involved.

 

[twabby]

I forgot to award my game puck yesterday, so I'll award it here:

My game puck for yesterday goes to Tom "Big William" Wilson for a goal, but more importantly a team high 88% (!) xG share. If he puts up more performances like this one you can guarantee I'll change my tune on him!

Honorable mentions go to Dylan Strome, TVR, and Anthony Mantha (RIP).

 

[traparatus]

I am absolutely not buying that every team that missed the playoffs or had a high draft pick ended up that way because they tanked. That's pretty ridiculous, actually. Half the league doesn't make the playoffs in any given year. Teams have good years and bad years, and the league wants parity.

Teams do have to rebuild from time to time, and part of that is often seeing the writing on the wall and making hard decisions that make your team worse in the short term in order to build for the future. But they are hard decisions and it entails a lot of risk and uncertainty. That is not "tanking". Losing might be a byproduct, but it's not the goal, and it's not easy for anyone involved.

That is the longest possible way of saying 'tank'... I have no idea what the difficulty of this decision has to do with anything. I don't think any franchise takes tanking lightly. If there was another way for teams to acquire goal scoring stars, top-line centers and top pair defensemen, tanking wouldn't be a thing. People like to rattle off examples of teams who got stuck in a rebuild. Nobody ever gives you the alternative.

Hey, I didn't create this stupid system. Got to draft high and often, got to be good at it, got to be lucky.

 

[Langway]

Tanking is how you build contending teams in this league. Next time Caps are contending for a Cup it will be because of core group that they picked at the top of the draft, just like it is for everybody else.

Not for the Blues so much. Or Vegas. But, largely, yes. Teams built from the back out and up the middle with a checking style can peak and win. It's rare but can happen with the right pedigree, mix and culture. It's more that I'm not sure MacLellan still has that degree of selectivity in him. It's been quite a while since those dead on Niskanen & Orpik signings.

Big picture Protas should be a good fit for playoff hockey. Leonard. Maybe Miro. But they've definitely got a lot of work to do building something more dynamic and interesting. (Or even capably boring in a basic shutdown sense.) While they'll have some cap space to burn they need to continue building up their asset base so that when quality trade opportunities arise they can be big players. That's IMO mainly why they ought to sell, particularly if someone like Dowd can net a first rounder ala Goodrow. It's tempting to try to find a way in but they can't be short-sighted. They've got to stay flexible while they try to execute a restructuring on the fly. Perhaps it becomes Sutter's time to earn a shot. Or they continue to roll with Protas at center.

Culture is going to have to be something that pushes them back into the playoffs more than pure high-end talent probably. But the overall standard needs to continuisly evolve or else it'll continue to fall flat. It's a tough puzzle to remedy. Certainly the easiest route is to luck into some quality young, cheap talent in the draft. I'm definitely skeptical they can do enough otherwise to remain competitive if they're squarely in the mid-range. But there are some other routes at least theoretically available.