Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

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You can list your lines how you like but in terms of ice-time that's our 2nd line.
Pretty ugly one….rather see Max on the wing….they‘re just going to log a crapton of ice time trying to shut down Mack‘s line…..maybe Wilson gets them off their game with some physicality. I expect Dowd is taking at least 2-3 hooking penalties lol….
 
Would caps fans consider something like:

To Wsh:
R. Johansson
Meyers
2024 first

To Col:
Dowd
Lindgren
Edmundson
None of the players you're asking for are off limits, and all three should be traded at the deadline. But the Caps are giving up two of their best (likely) trade assets in this trade AND are being asked to eat Ryan Johansen's contract (which continues into next season).... it's gonna take a lot more than a singular 1st round pick and a 25 year old minor leaguer to make that appealing.
 
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None of the players you're asking for are off limits, and all three should be traded at the deadline. But the Caps are giving up two of their best (likely) trade assets in this trade AND are being asked to eat Ryan Johansen's contract (which continues into next season).... it's gonna take a lot more than a singular 1st round pick and a 25 year old minor leaguer to make that appealing.
I think Meyers is an NHL level player, but Bednar doesn’t appear to trust him in a defensive capacity. I still think he has low end third line potential.

At full cap hit what are your expected returns for each player?
 
I think Meyers is an NHL level player, but Bednar doesn’t appear to trust him in a defensive capacity. I still think he has low end third line potential.

At full cap hit what are your expected returns for each player?
Dowd is mid-2nd at full cap hit, a 1st if the Capitals retain (especially since retention can bring his cap hit under the league minimum).

Lindgren is something like a late 2nd, or maybe a 3rd and B prospect.

Edmundson is probably a 3rd.

Asking to eat a year of Johansen's contract could be worth a 1st on its own (given how low in the draft Colorado's picks are).
 
Dowd is mid-2nd at full cap hit, a 1st if the Capitals retain (especially since retention can bring his cap hit under the league minimum).

Lindgren is something like a late 2nd, or maybe a 3rd and B prospect.

Edmundson is probably a 3rd.

Asking to eat a year of Johansen's contract could be worth a 1st on its own (given how low in the draft Colorado's picks are).

Marleau had a higher cap hit at $6.25m and cost a 1st in a time with a lower salary, Orpik was at $7m attached or Grubauer but caps got a 2nd back so in and around 1st to 2nd cost for buying out $7m. Given RyJo is making $4m I think a mid-late 2nd would be the equivalent cost to dump him.

So based on your ask a first+RyJo for Dowd is probably within the realm of reasonable. I figured Meyers value is about a 3rd/4th, but I understand preferring an actual third for Edmudson. Then obviously a disconnect in my interpretation of original value of Lindgren.

If we removed Edmundson and added a 2024 4th and 2025 3rd are we closer to value?
 
Marleau had a higher cap hit at $6.25m and cost a 1st in a time with a lower salary, Orpik was at $7m attached or Grubauer but caps got a 2nd back so in and around 1st to 2nd cost for buying out $7m. Given RyJo is making $4m I think a mid-late 2nd would be the equivalent cost to dump him.

So based on your ask a first+RyJo for Dowd is probably within the realm of reasonable. I figured Meyers value is about a 3rd/4th, but I understand preferring an actual third for Edmudson. Then obviously a disconnect in my interpretation of original value of Lindgren.

If we removed Edmundson and added a 2024 4th and 2025 3rd are we closer to value?

Capitals can get a 1st for Dowd without taking back Johansen, simply by retaining on Dowd's contract (which costs a lot less than $4M).

Meyers is not worth a 3rd or 4th. Every team has a couple mid-20s players who could maybe be an NHLer, but haven't stuck for whatever reason. They're a dime-a-dozen commodity. Would you give up a 3rd or 4th for Riley Sutter or Ethen Frank? If the Capitals want Meyers, they can snag him when he's on waivers next season.

Orpik was $5.5M cap hit with a $4.5M salary, not $7M.
Dumping one year of Marc Staal ($5.7 cap hit, $3.2M salary) cost a 2nd.
So maybe you can call RyJo's contract dump a 2nd rather than a 1st. And given how late Colorado's picks are, even that is lukewarm.
 
Why would anybody want Ryan Johansen on their team?? We just got rid of a guy called Kuzy who embodies the same kind of dgaf attitude.
 
Dowd is mid-2nd at full cap hit, a 1st if the Capitals retain (especially since retention can bring his cap hit under the league minimum).

Lindgren is something like a late 2nd, or maybe a 3rd and B prospect.

Edmundson is probably a 3rd.

Asking to eat a year of Johansen's contract could be worth a 1st on its own (given how low in the draft Colorado's picks are).
I think this is way off.

Lindgren will get a first. Low cap with term. Our most valuable trade piece in a market that craves goaltenders

Dowd is a first. And this year i would say first and a prospect. Otherwise wait a year.

I’d be happy with a third for Edmundson. We could rob someone of a second.
 
Team have actually played very good hockey vs Florida, Boston, Vancouver and Colorado.
1 goal game vs Florida and Colorado (Before empty netters), impressive win vs Bruins and OT against Vancouver. Still only 3 points out of it.

Will be interesting to see how thing goes with a little easier schedule going forward. Still I dont see them getting back in the playoff race. 6 points up to Detroit and will also have to pass 3 metro teams who are ahead on point percentage.

Only 4 pts down to Buffalo and Arizona being 6th worst and the distance to Ottawa who have looked great with a new coach is not that far any longer. Ottawa only 8 pts behind with 3 games in hand.
 
I think this is way off.

Lindgren will get a first. Low cap with term. Our most valuable trade piece in a market that craves goaltenders

Dowd is a first. And this year i would say first and a prospect. Otherwise wait a year.

I’d be happy with a third for Edmundson. We could rob someone of a second.

Show me a comparable for Lindgren getting a first in the past. 30 year old goaltenders with 84 career games played and 0 playoff appearances don't command 1st round picks at the deadline.

Fleury only got a 2nd (conditional up to a first if Minneosta reached WCF, condition not met) when he was traded at the 2022 deadline, and he's a heck of a lot more established than Lindgren.

Robin Lehner, also considerably more established than Lindgren, got a 2nd and Malcolm Subban (who Vegas had acquired via waivers) and a D prospect that has never played above the ECHL.

A 28 year-old Jack Campbell (50 career starts) was traded (along with Kyle Clifford) for Trevor Moore and 2x 3rd round picks.

Best case comparable is something like Darcy Kuemper's trade from LA to Arizona, for Tobias Rieder (a mid-20s 3rd liner coming off a couple decent seasons) and Scott Wedgewood (then 25). But Kuemper was 27, not 30, at the time of that trade.

Dowd is only getting a 1st if we retain on him. That's already an ambitious ask. 4th line centers don't often command a 1st round pick (last one was Paul Gaustad a decade ago). The reason why Dowd can fetch a 1st is because he has a year remaining on his contract, and retention can bring his salary cap under league minimum next year, making him an incredibly efficient salary slot to a cap crunched contender. His trade value actually goes down if they hold onto him until next season.
 
Show me a comparable for Lindgren getting a first in the past. 30 year old goaltenders with 84 career games played and 0 playoff appearances don't command 1st round picks at the deadline.

Fleury only got a 2nd (conditional up to a first if Minneosta reached WCF, condition not met) when he was traded at the 2022 deadline, and he's a heck of a lot more established than Lindgren.

Robin Lehner, also considerably more established than Lindgren, got a 2nd and Malcolm Subban (who Vegas had acquired via waivers) and a D prospect that has never played above the ECHL.

A 28 year-old Jack Campbell (50 career starts) was traded (along with Kyle Clifford) for Trevor Moore and 2x 3rd round picks.

Best case comparable is something like Darcy Kuemper's trade from LA to Arizona, for Tobias Rieder (a mid-20s 3rd liner coming off a couple decent seasons) and Scott Wedgewood (then 25). But Kuemper was 27, not 30, at the time of that trade.

Dowd is only getting a 1st if we retain on him. That's already an ambitious ask. 4th line centers don't often command a 1st round pick (last one was Paul Gaustad a decade ago). The reason why Dowd can fetch a 1st is because he has a year remaining on his contract, and retention can bring his salary cap under league minimum next year, making him an incredibly efficient salary slot to a cap crunched contender. His trade value actually goes down if they hold onto him until next season.
I agree with all of this but don't underrate the fact that Lindgren is signed for one more year at a very low cap hit (1.1 mil). Similar to Dowd, that has a ton of value to a cap strapped team looking for goaltending help (like Colorado who could pair Lindgren with Georgiev). This is especially true if the Caps retain 50%.
 
Marleau had a higher cap hit at $6.25m and cost a 1st in a time with a lower salary, Orpik was at $7m attached or Grubauer but caps got a 2nd back so in and around 1st to 2nd cost for buying out $7m. Given RyJo is making $4m I think a mid-late 2nd would be the equivalent cost to dump him.

So based on your ask a first+RyJo for Dowd is probably within the realm of reasonable. I figured Meyers value is about a 3rd/4th, but I understand preferring an actual third for Edmudson. Then obviously a disconnect in my interpretation of original value of Lindgren.

If we removed Edmundson and added a 2024 4th and 2025 3rd are we closer to value?
I would think a 2nd rounder is fair value to take RyJo, but the question is are the Caps going to "weaponize" cap space by taking contact dumps? Not sure if that's GMBM's strategy.

Also, I think Dowd and Charlie's values are quite varied depending on the current buyers and how desperate they are. I could see Lindgren getting a third, but also could get a first in a package deal for the right team. Very hard to say.
 
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I do think there is probably something to work with in Colorado. Dowd and Lindgren would be pretty good fits for that team.

I’d even consider taking on Johansen. They might be better suited to do that in the offseason though once the Kuznetsov situation is hopefully resolved

I also agree that Lindgren and Dowd hold greater value now then next season since the acquiring team gets two playoff runs with them instead of one

If it’s Dowd & Lindgren AND taking on Johansen I’d ask for two firsts. You can balance that out more with additional players, retention, or picks from either side. But that would be the basis IMO
 
I’d take three firsts for that package. There’s no reason for Johansen on this team, it’s just nonsensical and stupid. Sorry to the Avs fan who wanted validation on an inane trade proposition.
 
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I don't get all this talk of Lindgren being traded. They're not going to trade one of the goalies unless a stupid offer comes along and teams just don't make stupid offers for goaltenders at the deadline. I highly doubt a goaltender is moved while trying to stay competitive in future seasons.

We may move a combination of Dowd, Patches, Mantha, Edmundson, Jensen, and TVR. Otherwise the plan is still to continue with the "retool" and bring younger pieces in while still remaining "competitive" for Ovi.
 
Johansen would probably cost a mid-second round pick to take on. Avalanche don’t have a 2nd until 2026 and their picks would be late.
 
I don't get all this talk of Lindgren being traded. They're not going to trade one of the goalies unless a stupid offer comes along and teams just don't make stupid offers for goaltenders at the deadline. I highly doubt a goaltender is moved while trying to stay competitive in future seasons.

We may move a combination of Dowd, Patches, Mantha, Edmundson, Jensen, and TVR. Otherwise the plan is still to continue with the "retool" and bring younger pieces in while still remaining "competitive" for Ovi.
Its because who we have in the Minors and only so many NHL spots open to play and develop a goalie.
 
Show me a comparable for Lindgren getting a first in the past. 30 year old goaltenders with 84 career games played and 0 playoff appearances don't command 1st round picks at the deadline.

Fleury only got a 2nd (conditional up to a first if Minneosta reached WCF, condition not met) when he was traded at the 2022 deadline, and he's a heck of a lot more established than Lindgren.

Robin Lehner, also considerably more established than Lindgren, got a 2nd and Malcolm Subban (who Vegas had acquired via waivers) and a D prospect that has never played above the ECHL.

A 28 year-old Jack Campbell (50 career starts) was traded (along with Kyle Clifford) for Trevor Moore and 2x 3rd round picks.

Best case comparable is something like Darcy Kuemper's trade from LA to Arizona, for Tobias Rieder (a mid-20s 3rd liner coming off a couple decent seasons) and Scott Wedgewood (then 25). But Kuemper was 27, not 30, at the time of that trade.

Dowd is only getting a 1st if we retain on him. That's already an ambitious ask. 4th line centers don't often command a 1st round pick (last one was Paul Gaustad a decade ago). The reason why Dowd can fetch a 1st is because he has a year remaining on his contract, and retention can bring his salary cap under league minimum next year, making him an incredibly efficient salary slot to a cap crunched contender. His trade value actually goes down if they hold onto him until next season.
I get the comparables don’t line up. My rationale is based on the very low cost and that there is term. Absolutely worth a first. In terms of pure value, we probably get more this year than next, but if we can’t get a first then i hold both Lindgren and Dowd. They have more cheap value to us than getting a second round pick.

There is no need to retain on either of these players because they are cheap. And if we still have all of that cap space I’m trading the retaining chips on a big contract that sends back a stronger return.
 
We should not be trading away goaltending based on a rookie AHLer and another barely having played a seasons worth of AHL hockey.

Timing would work for us for once. Goalie market is on demand this year and we have two good options to offer.

Devils & Oilers are desperate for a goalie, with couple other teams in the mix aswell.

Shephard has propably deserved a shot to have a longer look at NHL and we dont likely have much to play for the last 20 games. Stevenson is progressing fast and could benefit for getting a taste too, he might even be ready from the training camp.

And if neither works out yet, we still have a nr1 for next season and signing a backup from FA isnt that hard assignment.

Lindgren will be out of his contract next season and if he keeps this up he is in for a good raise. We are already paying Kuemper starter money. Propably one is gone after next year anyways. Sure you can push the decision for next TDL, but right now the value is propably at high point and we arent going anywhere this season. Goalie play is voodoo, Charlie could lose his edge and value and/or there might not be the market for goalies next year.

It just would make sense from asset management view, and where we are now. But you are right, they propably wont trade a NHL goalie with term. Especially after struggling with the position for years since prime Holtby, theres risks too.
 
In order of priority for me would be:

1: Move Lindgren if he returns a 1st. I don't see it, really. Could happen if you take a short-term cap dump back?

2: Dangle Kuemper if Lindgren doesn't return a 1st. Best-case scenario is you get little something in return. If not then perhaps dump for nothing? Worst-case scenario is take back cap dump with shorter term.

3: Move Lindgren for a 2024 2nd. It wouldn't be ideal but that's propably the most realistic deal they could have on the table.

I see no reason to bring back both goalies for next season. Either try to add a pick for Lindgren or try to get rid of Kuemper's contract while there seems to be handful of teams looking for goalies.
 
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