Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[Misery74]

Jensen and TvR were both pretty necessary considering the only RHD in the pipeline is Iorio and he is not NHL ready. And IIRC the RD market was pretty ass last offseason

BMac competed against himself.

Bear? It's free depth. It became possible during the season with Backstrom news. How is this a bad move?

MaxPac? Too early to say really, given his NMC. We didn't have the cap space to make major acquisation. I think MaxPac turns into a free pick if he stays healthy. That wouldn’t be bad.

Edmundson? This is bad. It may yet break even if we get back what we paid for, though.

Pacioretty has an NMC, so he probably stays.

We were the only team to offer Bear an extra year.

 

[stephenball]

Yeah, I don’t really get the crap given for Bear’s contract, you’d think he was signed to Darnell Nurse’s deal or something. He’s not getting much in the grand scheme of things, and is getting value based on a perceived chance of progression. He’s barely played after getting surgery, he’s a bottom pairing defenseman and is being compensated similarly. He hasn’t been great, but far from our biggest issue considering the cap not being an issue.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

It’s wild that there are so many excuses for a GM whose team has not gotten out of the first round in 5 years and whose team is about to miss the playoffs again. Every bad contract or pick there is an excuse (well he had no better options). Really? He was forced to sign Kuemper to the deal he gave him? He had to make the trade for Mantha and include a pick to correct a bad move with Panik?

I’m thankful he helped us win a a cup but it’s not like he built that team. He added the final touches to a team that GMGM built. A GM that then went on to turn an expansion team into a cup winner and consistent contender. At some point his moves today need to be evaluated and not who he signed or traded for a decade ago.

 

[Misery74]

It’s wild that there are so many excuses for a GM whose team has not gotten out of the first round in 5 years and whose team is about to miss the playoffs again. Every bad contract or pick there is an excuse (well he had no better options). Really? He was forced to sign Kuemper to the deal he gave him? He had to make the trade for Mantha and include a pick to correct a bad move with Panik?

I’m thankful he helped us win a a cup but it’s not like he built that team. He added the final touches to a team that GMGM built. A GM that then went on to turn an expansion team into a cup winner and consistent contender. At some point his moves today need to be evaluated and not who he signed or traded for a decade ago.

I think this is spot on. He’s on his third coach as well. In no way should he be allowed to hire another one.

He should be on a very short leash at this point.

 

[Holtbyisms]

We could easily draft in the top 5 this year. Don't underestimate how much worse this team is going to get with the vets going out at the deadline. Say what you want about him but Kuzy being replaced by Sgarbossa is also a significant downgrade. This team is going to race to the bottom in a hurry after the deadline.

 

[g00n]

None of these acquisitions were necessary. Just like extending Milano, and Jensen, and TvR.

Yes, BMac has had a few winners. But right now, he seems like a is flailing.

Why do you think we're trying to win?

Washington currently drafting 10OA after last night’s results but they’re only three points above 6OA. Unless they try really hard to suck I don’t think they can get into the top five — it feels like Ottawa, Columbus, San Jose, Anaheim, and Chicago have the top suck spots on lock.

MoneyPuck has the Caps with the 5th worst playoff odds at 0.9%.

Is this a deep top 10 draft? If not then trade back and stock up on picks, imo.

 

[Cappy76]

It’s wild that there are so many excuses for a GM whose team has not gotten out of the first round in 5 years and whose team is about to miss the playoffs again. Every bad contract or pick there is an excuse (well he had no better options). Really? He was forced to sign Kuemper to the deal he gave him? He had to make the trade for Mantha and include a pick to correct a bad move with Panik?

I’m thankful he helped us win a a cup but it’s not like he built that team. He added the final touches to a team that GMGM built. A GM that then went on to turn an expansion team into a cup winner and consistent contender. At some point his moves today need to be evaluated and not who he signed or traded for a decade ago.

Hindsight it 20/20, when we signed Kuemper I don't think anyone was complaining since we were coming off numerous years of Vanecek and Sammy not taking the reigns. Kuemper was coming of a Stanley Cup win and I don't remember anyone thinking this was a bad move.

I don't think some here remember just how incomplete GMGM built this team for the entirety of the Ovi era. How many years did he refuse to address the D or 2C with anything other than dumpster dives, when we actually had the money to spend.

Like it or not the Owner (you know GMBMs boss) has set the line in the sand that we're not burning it down and rebuilding, and also we're not going to move the core (Carlson, Backstrom, Wilson, etc) this team is exactly that. A team with an aging core that the ownership group feels they owe to keep it together as they push Ovi to the goal record.

Rather than debate what we could have done differently that goes completely against the directive from the owner how about we start agreeing on that direction and find moves to argue within those parameters.

 

[Kazer]

It’s wild that there are so many excuses for a GM whose team has not gotten out of the first round in 5 years and whose team is about to miss the playoffs again. Every bad contract or pick there is an excuse (well he had no better options). Really? He was forced to sign Kuemper to the deal he gave him? He had to make the trade for Mantha and include a pick to correct a bad move with Panik?

I’m thankful he helped us win a a cup but it’s not like he built that team. He added the final touches to a team that GMGM built. A GM that then went on to turn an expansion team into a cup winner and consistent contender. At some point his moves today need to be evaluated and not who he signed or traded for a decade ago.

Boiling down GMBM's work to 'finishing touches' is pretty far off.

From 2013-14 to 17-18, GMBM:
Rebuilt the defense (Niskanen, Orpik in, Green, Alzner out)
Fortified the middle six (Ward, Johansson, Brouwer, Chimera, Grabovski, Fehr, Erat out; Oshie, Eller, Vrana, Connolly, Bura, Kuzy in)
Gave Holtby the reigns (Holtby split time in 13-14 with Gruby, Halak, and Neuvy)

I will give GMGM and McCrimmon credit for what they did with Vegas, but the 13-14 team that GMGM left GMBM with had a ton of holes. There's a reason that team went 38-30-14, and it was not all Adam Oates. Caps D with 20+ games that year included Urbom, Oleksy, Carrick, and Erskine.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

Boiling down GMBM's work to 'finishing touches' is pretty far off.

From 2013-14 to 17-18, GMBM:
Rebuilt the defense (Niskanen, Orpik in, Green, Alzner out)
Fortified the middle six (Ward, Johansson, Brouwer, Chimera, Grabovski, Fehr, Erat out; Oshie, Eller, Vrana, Connolly, Bura, Kuzy in)
Gave Holtby the reigns (Holtby split time in 13-14 with Gruby, Halak, and Neuvy)

I will give GMGM and McCrimmon credit for what they did with Vegas, but the 13-14 team that GMGM left GMBM with had a ton of holes. There's a reason that team went 38-30-14, and it was not all Adam Oates. Caps D with 20+ games that year included Urbom, Oleksy, Carrick, and Erskine.

That’s fair but I think the criticism of GMGM is also too harsh. We got really unlucky in many of those series. The difference was a post here or there from going deep and maybe winning a cup. Under GMBM the team won the cup I know. But Columbus hit a post in OT up 2-0 in the series and we so easily could have lost in the first round again. Other than that the team under GMBM has not had any other deep runs.

I see plenty of other teams, even some with multiple cup wins, move on from a GM like BM based on his performance these last 5 years. I’m curious what would it take for those supporting to determine he needs to go.

 

[twabby]

Like it or not the Owner (you know GMBMs boss) has set the line in the sand that we're not burning it down and rebuilding, and also we're not going to move the core (Carlson, Backstrom, Wilson, etc) this team is exactly that. A team with an aging core that the ownership group feels they owe to keep it together as they push Ovi to the goal record.

I wonder if this line in the sand changes now that viewership is down 44%?

It's a good point that maybe GMBM's hands are tied when it comes to moving bigger names. But I think it's becoming abundantly clear that a retooling isn't doing anything but delaying the team from being competitive again.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

I wonder if this line in the sand changes now that viewership is down 44%?

It's a good point that maybe GMBM's hands are tied when it comes to moving bigger names. But I think it's becoming abundantly clear that a retooling isn't doing anything but delaying the team from being competitive again.

Are his hands also tied when it comes to drafting?

 

[Kazer]

Are his hands also tied when it comes to drafting?

To some extent, yes. When you're drafting at the bottom of rounds, the number of good (not even great) players is so low. There are no obvious 'coulda had Getzlaf' types for his picks.

2016 - LuJo - next five players taken are a couple bottom 6 forwards (Frederic and Steel); a Russian guy with 1 GP; a guy with 3 points in 38 career games; and a 4th line (or even 13th) forward in Asplund.

2018 - AA - next five players taken are a bottom pair d, a 3rd line forward, a 4th line forward, and two guys with 0 NHL GP.

Obviously, the team would be better off with Frederic or Steel and Samuelsson or Berggren but none of those guys would be difference makers. And on the other side, you could easily argue that McMichael is the best pick out of the last 7 in the 2019 first round.

And further, the same braintrust that drafted Orlov/Holtby/Kuznetsov/Carlson (Ross Mahoney) is largely still there. If someone has evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it, but I have not seen any signs of GMBM gutting or significantly changing the way the team handles amateur scouting.

To me, GMBM needs to be judged (and fired if unsuccessful) based on the 2022, 2023, 2024, and, if he is still in charge, the 2025 drafts. So far, I'm very happy with Leonard versus guys taken behind him like Danielson, Yager, and Wood, but it's far too soon to tell. Same with Cristall. I'm also happy with the Miros/Chesley picks from 2022 (but again, early).

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

ignore

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

To some extent, yes. When you're drafting at the bottom of rounds, the number of good (not even great) players is so low. There are no obvious 'coulda had Getzlaf' types for his picks.

2016 - LuJo - next five players taken are a couple bottom 6 forwards (Frederic and Steel); a Russian guy with 1 GP; a guy with 3 points in 38 career games; and a 4th line (or even 13th) forward in Asplund.

2018 - AA - next five players taken are a bottom pair d, a 3rd line forward, a 4th line forward, and two guys with 0 NHL GP.

Obviously, the team would be better off with Frederic or Steel and Samuelsson or Berggren but none of those guys would be difference makers. And on the other side, you could easily argue that McMichael is the best pick out of the last 7 in the 2019 first round.

And further, the same braintrust that drafted Orlov/Holtby/Kuznetsov/Carlson (Ross Mahoney) is largely still there. If someone has evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it, but I have not seen any signs of GMBM gutting or significantly changing the way the team handles amateur scouting.

To me, GMBM needs to be judged (and fired if unsuccessful) based on the 2022, 2023, 2024, and, if he is still in charge, the 2025 drafts. So far, I'm very happy with Leonard versus guys taken behind him like Danielson, Yager, and Wood, but it's far too soon to tell. Same with Cristall. I'm also happy with the Miros/Chesley picks from 2022 (but again, early).

GMBM missed some great players after his picks. Just to name a few, DeBrincat, Fox, Boeser, Konecny. In similar positions GMBM picked Orlov, Carlson, Kuzy, Holtby, Johansson, Stephenson, Burakovsky. And others too that have had pretty good careers. GMBM has been drafting for nearly ten years, he has had plenty of time to have at least a couple players become true impact guys. I can’t think of one.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That’s fair but I think the criticism of GMGM is also too harsh. We got really unlucky in many of those series. The difference was a post here or there from going deep and maybe winning a cup. Under GMBM the team won the cup I know. But Columbus hit a post in OT up 2-0 in the series and we so easily could have lost in the first round again. Other than that the team under GMBM has not had any other deep runs.

I see plenty of other teams, even some with multiple cup wins, move on from a GM like BM based on his performance these last 5 years. I’m curious what would it take for those supporting to determine he needs to go.

HAH NO WAY! GMGM deserved all that criticism. He lost perspective. Wasted so many years of 8’s prime….

The way I see it unless the Owner changes his mind and tells GMBM to gut the team, you’ve got at least 2 more years left trying to surround Ovechkin with more talent immediately, which means it could be more of exactly what we‘re seeing this year with more budget signings, reclamations and acquisitions.

In other words, buckle up…..he’s going to be around a while. He just hired a promising young coach but they need to work through the roster difficulties and no new GM is magically rectifying that.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

GMBM missed some great players after his picks. Just to name a few, DeBrincat, Fox, Boeser, Konecny. In similar positions GMBM picked Orlov, Carlson, Kuzy, Holtby, Johansson, Stephenson, Burakovsky. And others too that have had pretty good careers. GMBM has been drafting for nearly ten years, he has had plenty of time to have at least a couple players become true impact guys. I can’t think of one.

It’s so weird hearing it discussed like GMBM wasn’t right there as GMGM‘s right hand man during all those successful draft years….scout, Dir of Player Personnel, AGM for 13 years.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

It’s so weird hearing it discussed like GMBM wasn’t right there as GMGM‘s right hand man during all those successful draft years….scout, Dir of Player Personnel, AGM for 13 years.

Well we clearly are not going to see eye to eye on this lol. But I still like you and respect your opinions.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well we clearly are not going to see eye to eye on this lol. But I still like you and respect your opinions.

weird that you don’t see the irony that they were all part of the brain trust that made those picks.

…..and same to you.

 

[alphabetical]

The way I see it unless the Owner changes his mind and tells GMBM to gut the team, you’ve got at least 2 more years left trying to surround Ovechkin with more talent immediately, which means it could be more of exactly what we‘re seeing this year with more budget signings, reclamations and acquisitions.

The caps only had to go dumpster diving last offseason because the cap was so tight with backstrom still on the books. This offseason they have all the space they need to sign free agents, but it doesn't look like very many good ones will be available.

 

[Misery74]

The caps only had to go dumpster diving last offseason because the cap was so tight with backstrom still on the books. This offseason they have all the space they need to sign free agents, but it doesn't look like very many good ones will be available.

There are some very good UFAs:

Guentzel
Reinhart
Marchessault
Teravienen
Lindholm
Hanafin

 

[alphabetical]

There are some very good UFAs:

Guentzel
Reinhart
Marchessault
Teravienen
Lindholm
Hanafin

Yep, 6 good ones. That's not very many. I'll bet a couple of those don't make it to FA either.

 

[twabby]

There are some very good UFAs:

Guentzel
Reinhart
Marchessault
Teravienen
Lindholm
Hanafin

Of those UFAs listed only Reinhart Is interesting. Guentzel, Marchessault, Teravainen, and Lindholm will all be 30+ next season. And Hanifin has been incredibly average for most of his career. Washington should have no appetite for paying top dollar for declining players.

Very few successful teams are built through free agency. Certainly some shrewd UFA signings can help supplement an otherwise strong roster (e.g. Niskanen in 2014) but UFA signings alone won't do anything to make Washington a good team. Their only real hope to retool successfully was to make some hockey trades with some of their more valuable pieces but they are not interested in parting with some fan favorites, so the options now are to continue to flounder or to blow it up.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

There are some very good UFAs:

Guentzel
Reinhart
Marchessault
Teravienen
Lindholm
Hanafin

The only UFA's that interest me are Centers. We desperately need Centers. From that list only Reinhart and Lindholm are interesting. Lindholm has regressed the last 2 years (to be fair, so has that entire Calgary team). Reinhart has been more consistent and is having a career year right now. We will have to pay a premium with lots of term to get one of them. Not sure if that makes sense or not.

 

[Langway]

I'm more intrigued by Duchene & Stephenson in UFA, though with Duchene they'd need to be wary with term. Targets are rarely ideal in UFA and overall it's doubtful to be the primary ticket back into the playoffs. The core is too non-competitive to believe more serious work is needed. I mean, they could also add Leonard and maybe another Sandin or two to the mix and it would be more interesting at least. But they're still going to have a tough time stacking up well enough at this stage.

I'm sure there will be a temptation to make splashes, make some statements that they're at least trying to put dangerous pieces in place around Ovechkin to keep the chase to 895 intact. But they definitely should hold the line on term. They likely won't just do one-year stopgap deals (to flip) but I wonder about two-year offers and pitching the alignment with the goal chase as part of the draw.

 

[Ridley Simon]

It’s wild that there are so many excuses for a GM whose team has not gotten out of the first round in 5 years and whose team is about to miss the playoffs again. Every bad contract or pick there is an excuse (well he had no better options). Really? He was forced to sign Kuemper to the deal he gave him? He had to make the trade for Mantha and include a pick to correct a bad move with Panik?

I’m thankful he helped us win a a cup but it’s not like he built that team. He added the final touches to a team that GMGM built. A GM that then went on to turn an expansion team into a cup winner and consistent contender. At some point his moves today need to be evaluated and not who he signed or traded for a decade ago.

He wasn’t here ago a decade ago Try again.

Let’s do this exercise — you want him fired. OK.

WHO? would you hire as a replacement?

And please don’t give me the “well, it’s not my job to know who is out there to lead the team”. That’s horsesehit. You are making it your job to fire him, aren’t you?

So finish the damned thought. Who replaces him?

I will wait

I think this is spot on. He’s on his third coach as well. In no way should he be allowed to hire another one.

He should be on a very short leash at this point.

Same exercise for you. Who replaces him?