Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[CapitalsCupReality]

i mean obviously there's all sorts of people all over. But i would argue that in Europe at least people in general have a much more benevolent attitude towards taxation due to cultures etc. This doesn't mean that money doesn't talk, of course it does. But i doubt that professional athletes reason along the lines of: "Well this state is really bad at allocating it's funds so that in combination with high taxation rates makes me not want to go there". Many might for sure go to like Florida for the no state tax thing but most analyses probably end there.

Unless you’re a critical thinker like Aaron Rodgers, I agree lol…

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

I still think they have a panic trade in them. Mantha+McMichael for someone shiny that they'll similarly squander. It's what they do rather than solve problems.

They're not going to sell off early and get ahead of the market. They're going to hang on for dear life until the bitter end and if it takes rash moves to essentially just spin their wheels they'll do it. They don't have the vision for anything more ambitious. Similarly, I doubt they can Lavi until it's an unavoidable issue. And even then it could just be Nelson coming up from Hershey essentially running with the same basic checking design.

I would agree but it feels like they would have made a move already if that was the intention. They seem to be hitching the season to Tom Wilson returning and turning into Gretzky because if not they are in trouble. Brown isn’t coming back this season and Backstrom is coming off a major hip surgery, people keep talking about injuries but who are they waiting to come back besides Wilson and Orlov? Y’all really think adding those two makes them a legit playoff team the way they have played? If so, I have a bridge to sell ya.

 

[Langway]

I would agree but it feels like they would have made a move already if that was the intention. They seem to be hitching the season to Tom Wilson returning and turning into Gretzky because if not they are in trouble. Brown isn’t coming back this season and Backstrom is coming off a major hip surgery, people keep talking about injuries but who are they waiting to come back besides Wilson and Orlov? Y’all really think adding those two makes them a legit playoff team the way they have played? If so, I have a bridge to sell ya.

It's still very early. They may be waiting to get Wilson & Orlov back and then to see if Backstrom returns and how their cap situation develops. I'm not sure they know what they're doing yet. But if there's a glimmer of hope that a trade could help them sneak into the playoffs I'm sure they'll do it (if the price isn't outlandish and hard to believe they value Mantha & CMM all that highly given how they're used). Of course, that also begs the question of just what it is they're after and there again I'm not sure they'd have a complete answer. I'm not sure they know what they're lacking aside from maybe a dim notion that they need more scoring. In terms of more in-depth analysis it's hard to see many signs they've got a deeper grasp. If that package (or not much more) can land Horvat, Meier or Kane I'm guessing they'd do it. And if I'm another team I'd certainly entertain the possibility that I may be more capable than they are at putting players in situations to succeed.

Sprong now up to 14 points in 16 games at the league minimum for Seattle in not much TOI. Yet Washington pawned him off as a throw-away. He's a limited player to be sure but it's yet another example of squandering a somewhat useful NHL regular season producer for the sake of a vague high defensive standard they neither possess nor can develop. They have this checking kick yet are married to some of the most irresponsible core players you'll find anywhere in Carlson & Kuznetsov. It's just funky up and down, backwards and forwards. You wonder how it's taken so long for it to be on the rocks. Given some of those core limitations I'm not sure it's even a matter of willingness or capacity. I think they're just sort of damaged goods now and it's a reality they've got to own up to. They're short-handed but what they have is far from operating at full capacity.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I would agree but it feels like they would have made a move already if that was the intention. They seem to be hitching the season to Tom Wilson returning and turning into Gretzky because if not they are in trouble. Brown isn’t coming back this season and Backstrom is coming off a major hip surgery, people keep talking about injuries but who are they waiting to come back besides Wilson and Orlov? Y’all really think adding those two makes them a legit playoff team the way they have played? If so, I have a bridge to sell ya.

I wouldn’t be surprised in Ted/Dick/GMBM semi wrote this season off before it even began. So while we sit around and fret over things we can’t control, maybe they already looked at this year’s draft and said internally, “if things look even more rocky in-season, rather than making a panic trade, it might not be a bad year to take a half step back, get into the lottery and hopefully get lucky“.

So they might not be looking at Wilson or anyone else returning as some savior…..maybe they’re content on the current course?

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

I wouldn’t be surprised in Ted/Dick/GMBM semi wrote this season off before it even began. So while we sit around and fret over things we can’t control, maybe they already looked at this year’s draft and said internally, “if things look even more rocky in-season, rather than making a panic trade, it might not be a bad year to take a half step back, get into the lottery and hopefully get lucky“.

So they might not be looking at Wilson or anyone else returning as some savior…..maybe they’re content on the current course?

I am fine with throwing this season out the window but if we are going to do that let’s be really bad and try to get a top pick. This pretending to be competitive thing doesn’t get us anything this year except no playoffs and less than optimal draft positioning. That’s just me though.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I am fine with throwing this season out the window but if we are going to do that let’s be really bad and try to get a top pick. This pretending to be competitive thing doesn’t get us anything this year except no playoffs and less than optimal draft positioning. That’s just me though.

I don’t see them ever going to that extreme while Ovy is here. I suspect they don't want to strip the team down of talent, and they don’t want to tank at the box office either. I could see them trying to add a top-10 pick, hopefully get lucky and move up and grab someone choice, then hope to be right back at it with maybe 65% of the same roster next year.

 

[YippieKaey]

I would agree but it feels like they would have made a move already if that was the intention. They seem to be hitching the season to Tom Wilson returning and turning into Gretzky because if not they are in trouble. Brown isn’t coming back this season and Backstrom is coming off a major hip surgery, people keep talking about injuries but who are they waiting to come back besides Wilson and Orlov? Y’all really think adding those two makes them a legit playoff team the way they have played? If so, I have a bridge to sell ya.

I had completely forgotten that Brown plays on this team lol

It seems unlikely management is awaiting the return of Wilson and Bäckström at this point. When they return (if in Bäckströms case) we will already be out of the playoffs.

 

[RedRocking]

I would agree but it feels like they would have made a move already if that was the intention. They seem to be hitching the season to Tom Wilson returning and turning into Gretzky because if not they are in trouble. Brown isn’t coming back this season and Backstrom is coming off a major hip surgery, people keep talking about injuries but who are they waiting to come back besides Wilson and Orlov? Y’all really think adding those two makes them a legit playoff team the way they have played? If so, I have a bridge to sell ya.

I mean, Orlov is their best overall defender, and Wilson is a Swiss-army knife player that is good in all situations.

It’s not nothing, plus their return has a cascading effect in slotting guys correctly, and maybe fixing some chemistry issues.

Not saying they make them a juggernaut or even a playoff team, but those are two pretty essential players on the shelf.

 

[Holtbyisms]

~96 points is typically about the playoff cutoff in a full 82 game season. In order to get to 96 points, the Capitals would need to play at a ~104 point pace for the rest of the season.

They have to be realistic at this point. Tom Wilson is a good player but he's not going to turn this offense into a dynamo. Dmitry Orlov is a good player but he doesn't turn this team from a 78 point team into a 104 point team.

I've said it before but they need to consider this season lost in terms of competing for a Cup. Given that I think after this road trip or soon after they need to fire Laviolette. He's not the guy long-term so why continue to keep him around? He's not doing the team any favors in the medium or long term even if you want to argue there's no one better in the short term available to hire.

They also need to start looking at trading players now for whatever they deem to be an acceptable return. There's no downside to trading guys like Sheary, Eller, Johansson, Gustafsson, TVR, Mantha, etc. If the young players who step in stink, who cares! At least you know they stink, and also they're increasing their lottery ticket odds if they stink.

They can and probably should punt on guys like Kuznetsov, Carlson, and Oshie until the offseason because their contracts likely make it difficult for an in-season trade. But they really should be looking at Orlov, Jensen, and Wilson with a very critical eye toward ~3 years from now when Washington can next be realistically competitive. Are these guys likely to be a big part of a contending Capitals team in 3 years? If not I think they have to consider getting rid of them now if the return is acceptable.

So trade literally the entire team except Ovi? lol... I'm all for moving some dead logs at the deadline when we're out of it but let's be realistic.

 

[zappa4ever]

///...people keep talking about injuries but who are they waiting to come back besides Wilson and Orlov? Y’all really think adding those two makes them a legit playoff team the way they have played? If so, I have a bridge to sell ya.

We're 4 pts from WC with having missed tons of Man-games not even counting Wilson and Orlov; this team isn't far off the pace with having missed Carlson for a chunk, Oshie for a bigger chunk, Orlov for a bigger chunk, and Wilson for the entire chunk, not to mention Malenstyn who was a proper fit at 4LW

are you trying to suggest that getting back a Top Pair Dman and a Top Power Fwd (with Wilson being so unique that other teams have changed their roster to counter him) don't improve this team from being 4 pts from WC spot?
are we so cynical that getting healthy doesn't make us better?
Why can't we be a legit playoff team, esp. with our upgrades in goal?

With a healthy Malenstyn that solidifies the 4th line
Orlov allows us to get Irwin off the ice
If Wilson comes back 100%, that allows us to re-shape the Top-6
poss lineup:
OV - Kuz - Wilson
Sheary - Strome - Oshie
Milano - Eller - Martha
Malenstyn - Dowd - Hathaway
(Johannson/Protas/Snively)

Who knows? Maybe Wilson back in helps the O, gives us depth, better RW strength, options to fill out 3rd line differently, helps us hold on to late leads...

 

[Holtbyisms]

We're 4 pts from WC with having missed tons of Man-games not even counting Wilson and Orlov; this team isn't far off the pace with having missed Carlson for a chunk, Oshie for a bigger chunk, Orlov for a bigger chunk, and Wilson for the entire chunk, not to mention Malenstyn who was a proper fit at 4LW

are you trying to suggest that getting back a Top Pair Dman and a Top Power Fwd (with Wilson being so unique that other teams have changed their roster to counter him) don't improve this team from being 4 pts from WC spot?
are we so cynical that getting healthy doesn't make us better?
Why can't we be a legit playoff team, esp. with our upgrades in goal?

With a healthy Malenstyn that solidifies the 4th line
Orlov allows us to get Irwin off the ice
If Wilson comes back 100%, that allows us to re-shape the Top-6
poss lineup:
OV - Kuz - Wilson
Sheary - Strome - Oshie
Milano - Eller - Martha
Malenstyn - Dowd - Hathaway
(Johannson/Protas/Snively)

Who knows? Maybe Wilson back in helps the O, gives us depth, better RW strength, options to fill out 3rd line differently, helps us hold on to late leads...

They'll never sit mojo until he's off the team.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

We're 4 pts from WC with having missed tons of Man-games not even counting Wilson and Orlov; this team isn't far off the pace with having missed Carlson for a chunk, Oshie for a bigger chunk, Orlov for a bigger chunk, and Wilson for the entire chunk, not to mention Malenstyn who was a proper fit at 4LW

are you trying to suggest that getting back a Top Pair Dman and a Top Power Fwd (with Wilson being so unique that other teams have changed their roster to counter him) don't improve this team from being 4 pts from WC spot?
are we so cynical that getting healthy doesn't make us better?
Why can't we be a legit playoff team, esp. with our upgrades in goal?

With a healthy Malenstyn that solidifies the 4th line
Orlov allows us to get Irwin off the ice
If Wilson comes back 100%, that allows us to re-shape the Top-6
poss lineup:
OV - Kuz - Wilson
Sheary - Strome - Oshie
Milano - Eller - Martha
Malenstyn - Dowd - Hathaway
(Johannson/Protas/Snively)

Who knows? Maybe Wilson back in helps the O, gives us depth, better RW strength, options to fill out 3rd line differently, helps us hold on to late leads...

I don’t think it’s a cynical outlook. I feel like it’s a realistic one. This team has a big problem producing offense at the moment and as good of a two player Wilson is, I don’t see him solving that problem. Will he help? Absolutely.

 

[HTFN]

Too many tl'dr posts.

Are there any credible rumors of the Caps trading anyone? At all?

guys I think we all need to take a minute to tell g00n in short, clear sentences that we love everything about the team and everything is fine. You know, get some real discourse going in here.

Keep Wilson and Orlov, remodeled houses still need some of the old bones, start shipping the players who keep "making choices difficult" roster-wise even though they aren't outperforming anybody. Get eyes on what's left, make decisions ahead of free agency and be proactive about the shape the team is taking and maybe it won't be a long, painful thing. I was advocating for this type of shift last year and really thought that they'd be ready to start the process this year instead and so far hoo boy, I've been wrong about the franchise seeing it but still think it's the right move.

 

[YippieKaey]

So trade literally the entire team except Ovi? lol... I'm all for moving some dead logs at the deadline when we're out of it but let's be realistic.

Obviously won't happen but this would be agood move.

 

[g00n]

i mean obviously there's all sorts of people all over. But i would argue that in Europe at least people in general have a much more benevolent attitude towards taxation due to cultures etc. This doesn't mean that money doesn't talk, of course it does. But i doubt that professional athletes reason along the lines of: "Well this state is really bad at allocating it's funds so that in combination with high taxation rates makes me not want to go there". Many might for sure go to like Florida for the no state tax thing but most analyses probably end there.

Swiss bank accounts would like a word...

 

[Hivemind]

I honestly don't know if the team should go fire sale re-build, half-measures re-build, or attempt to "re-tool" (whatever that means in reality). But what's obvious to me is that the next couple steps remains the same regardless. Fire Laviolette, play the kids, and move out the UFAs that aren't sticking around (starting with Eller and Johansson, possibly followed by Sheary, Hathaway, and whatever D they aren't going to sign).

The fastest way back to contention, and realistically the only way this team contends again before Ovechkin retires, is if the assets the organization already has in house can step up big time and become players in key roles at a high level. The only way to find out if they're going to do that is to put them in positions to succeed and prioritize their short-term development. Not just Protas and Fehervary, but guys like Alexeyev, Lapierre, McMichael, and Iorio as well. These players may not have what it takes, particularly not in the next 1-2 years, and in which case it would make sense to invest in a longer-term rebuild. But step 1 is to remove the coach who refuses to prioritize these types of players, remove the roadblocks from them seeing ice time, and make lemonade with what's left of this season.

 

[g00n]

guys I think we all need to take a minute to tell g00n in short, clear sentences that we love everything about the team and everything is fine. You know, get some real discourse going in here.

Keep Wilson and Orlov, remodeled houses still need some of the old bones, start shipping the players who keep "making choices difficult" roster-wise even though they aren't outperforming anybody. Get eyes on what's left, make decisions ahead of free agency and be proactive about the shape the team is taking and maybe it won't be a long, painful thing. I was advocating for this type of shift last year and really thought that they'd be ready to start the process this year instead and so far hoo boy, I've been wrong about the franchise seeing it but still think it's the right move.

I asked a simple question. I've been very busy and I haven't had time to read novels about why someone thinks Vladislov Obscurovsky is the exact guy we should trade for because 10,000 reasons and fancy stats that don't mean shit to anyone involved.

The fact is most here have argued for general moves like trading Eller and Carlson in the offseason, myself included.

Most have wanted CMM to step up and take a roster spot, myself included.

Most have wanted more youth and speed, myself included, BUT not just for its own sake because as I showed previously there's no correlation between age and points%.

Some want to win and some clearly want to lose for the "tank" they imagine is inevitable. I favor winning.

Some want to wait and see how the team performs at full strength before making any irrevocable decisions, and others want to blow it up asap. I favor waiting unless a can't-refuse deal comes along.

This season is clearly planned out based on the timing of almost all their contracts. It's pretty obvious they're heading for a shakeup if THIS squad doesn't deliver by the TDL, and then again this summer. It's easy to say "do something before everyone else does" but that's never, ever been how this business works. Trades might start ramping up a few weeks before the TDL but few big transactions are ever executed in the first 4-5 months because almost every GM in the league is doing the SAME THING...waiting until there's both a clear need AND an open market.

All I'm asking for is legit trade talk from around the league with that in mind...is there a market opening up yet? What we have around hers is little more than "the wins are flukes and the losses are who we really are so let's trade everyone" fantasy GMing.

I'll just keep scrolling past.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Kuz]

Swiss bank accounts would like a word...

Yeah Im from Norway and regular people are kinda fine with the high tax rate as the tax go to free healthcare, good pensions, 10 months paid for being at home after getting a child (Usually 7 months for mother and 3 months for father), nursing home for the elderly and paying those who cant work or people while unemployed. So especially in the northern part (Germany, Nordic countries, Great Britain etc).

Most of the billionares aswell wants to give back, but right now we have a governement that want to tax the rich hard so like 40 of them have moved to switzerland or other european countries with lower tax rates recently.

 

[trick9]

Trading for Erik Karlsson? Is this 2017?

He's still very much untradeable for most teams. It's great he's having a good stretch but he's been moving downhill for years and his biggest asset is his skating and that hasn't been the same since that ankle injury. He also likes it there and has a full NMC in his contract.

4 more years after this is something i wouldn’t touch with a 10ft pole. I don't think anyone else will either. Well maybe team like Florida might move something like Bobrovsky for him.

 

[Misery74]

There is no player worth trading our 2023 first rounder for. That pick could end up being the silver lining to what looks like a season of blah.

 

[Hivemind]

There is no player worth trading our 2023 first rounder for. That pick could end up being the silver lining to what looks like a season of blah.

I mean, our 1st rounder is probably still going to be like 8-11th. Not exactly a lottery pick.

 

[Misery74]

I mean, our 1st rounder is probably still going to be like 8-11th. Not exactly a lottery pick.

This is being billed as a deep draft. Pick 10 could end up being very good. If not, trade it at the draft.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Oh.

Feelin’ pretty bad about the Caps making the playoffs

Hello. I'm still feeling really pessimistic about the Washington Capitals making the playoffs, and I wanted to vent it in your direction.…

t.co

 

[YippieKaey]

Swiss bank accounts would like a word...

Finally! I've been calling them for years asking for a loan. Denied!

Yeah Im from Norway and regular people are kinda fine with the high tax rate as the tax go to free healthcare, good pensions, 10 months paid for being at home after getting a child (Usually 7 months for mother and 3 months for father), nursing home for the elderly and paying those who cant work or people while unemployed. So especially in the northern part (Germany, Nordic countries, Great Britain etc).

Most of the billionares aswell wants to give back, but right now we have a governement that want to tax the rich hard so like 40 of them have moved to switzerland or other european countries with lower tax rates recently.

I thought norwegian tax money went exclusively to the construction of ski paths and still not being quite as good as Sweden at winter sports?

Best regards

Your friendly Eastern neighbour

 

[YippieKaey]

Trading for Erik Karlsson? Is this 2017?

He's still very much untradeable for most teams. It's great he's having a good stretch but he's been moving downhill for years and his biggest asset is his skating and that hasn't been the same since that ankle injury. He also likes it there and has a full NMC in his contract.

4 more years after this is something i wouldn’t touch with a 10ft pole. I don't think anyone else will either. Well maybe team like Florida might move something like Bobrovsky for him.

Actually i think trading for Karlsson is a decent way of being able to rebuild whilst also getting Ovi his goals. Karlsson, unlike Carlson, can really be a one man offense creator and thus we could trade Carlson, Mantha, Oshie, Wilson and pretty much anyone as long as Karlsson and Ovi play on the PP. Obviously depends on what San Jose would ask for him but still not a bad idea.