Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[um]

You know what kinds of coaches develop players at the NHL level? Rebuild coaches. And they get cast aside as soon as the rebuild is transitioning to something better. Like Hanlon.

If we have players coming up who aren't ready to crack the lineup there's something wrong with the pipeline.

its hard to know if they're ready if we keep favouring mediocre vets over them.

 

[g00n]

They aren’t even attempting to develop McMichael at the NHL level, that’s the issue we are talking about. If the coaching staff doesn’t want to use him, send him down. Lavi has control over getting him ice time in Hershey. He can tell the GM he feels he isn’t ready full time. Hell, it took about 5-6 forwards being out for him to finally get a sweater.

That's right. They're not attempting because he should be up to X standard when he gets to the NHL and he's not there by all accounts. They wanted to wedge him in there because Backstrom went down hard and it's not working out. So they're stuck.

That's a pipeline failure.

its hard to know if they're ready if we keep favouring mediocre vets over them.

Does CMM practice ever?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Because Lavi has a track record of favoring veteran players over younger guys. Predators fans came out in full force when the Caps hired Lavi and said he hated young players and was always favoring vets. They also didn’t have great things to say about McCarthy either when he decided to come on board.

As for McMichael, it’s been debated in here for close to a year but his underlying metrics were solid, yet he constantly is bottom of the team in TOI. You also could watch a game and see McMichael make solid plays only to be benched for the majority of the third period. There’s clearly no trust there and that’s fine, but it’s a disservice to the player to have him be a healthy scratch when he could play 18-20 minutes a night in Hershey. He could be getting meaningful minutes on the PP and they could be grooming him to PK if they wanted to. He could be working on other aspects of his game that they think he’s lacking in.

You could also see him lose physical battles and be out-skated quite a bit…..and in-game situations dictate when lesser players play often.

I don’t think it’s about trust. Kid just isn’t a better option yet. It will come (hopefully)….

 

[Jags]

Why can’t it be possible that CMM is just not good enough right now?

It's certainly possible. But if that's the case, why aren't we looking for someone else to stop the offensive sputtering of the 3rd line? Eller's not terrible, but "not terrible" shouldn't be acceptable if you're trying to win games. And this isn't a hate-on-Eller thing. One of our most pressing issues right now is that we're not scoring enough. We have lotsa wing talent and a 3C that is allergic to offense.

If Eller were currently setting the world on fire in one way or another maybe there'd be a reason to settle. But he's not. So as long as we're a middling team that can't score and that line in particular is showing zero chemistry, why not give the kid a chance? He and Eller are an apples and oranges comparison in styles, and right now our team is desperate for some oranges.

Why isn't anyone interested in answering that question? Eller is on pace for the same 30-ish points he put up when his wings were Panik and Hagelin, despite his current wings having way more offensive potential. Why are we settling?

Next year Eller will be gone, and he should have a good shot at 3C, if he earns it. Why isn’t that good enough for some people?

Name the great teams that have stayed great settling for lackluster performance while waiting years for contracts to expire. We need more from that position. I don't care who it is. It's not Eller, and if it's not McMichael either and the organization is okay just letting the kid stagnate for a year playing next to no hockey anywhere, why not trade him and Eller and whatever else it takes to fix the f***ing problem?

At least TRY to make the team better.

 

[HTFN]

You could also see him lose physical battles and be out-skated quite a bit…..and in-game situations dictate when lesser players play often.

I don’t think it’s about trust. Kid just isn’t a better option yet. It will come.

in part because they're sticking him on the wing and making him play in board battles he's not suited to, developing him as something he's not and probably never will be so that he can earn the chance to be developed like the player he already is?

 

[hb13xchamps]

That's right. They're not attempting because he should be up to X standard when he gets to the NHL and he's not there by all accounts. They wanted to wedge him in there because Backstrom went down hard and it's not working out. So they're stuck.

That's a pipeline failure.



Does CMM practice ever?

I wouldn’t necessarily say it was a pipeline issue. There were other forwards who could sit in a press box. There were other forwards that could play more of a bottom 6 role. They could have sent McMichael to Hershey and kept AJF or Leason around. McMichael had a pretty lackluster camp and was waiver exempt. It would have been an easy sell to say Protas outplayed him for the spot. It was bad asset management.

You could also see him lose physical battles and be out-skated quite a bit…..and in-game situations dictate when lesser players play often.

I don’t think it’s about trust. Kid just isn’t a better option yet. It will come (hopefully)….

Which is completely fine. I personally thought he sucked Sunday night. I would give Snively a sweater next game over him but that’s just me.

 

[HTFN]

Forsberg played plenty and scored plenty.

Fiala is the only one people even remotely can make a case for and I'm sure there's a counterpoint there.

So maybe one guy that's questionable? That's the "trend" we're relying on here.

Stick your head in the sand all you want, it didn't come from nowhere. It's not really the fault of Capitals fans that the Nashville Predators didn't and still don't have a ton of strong offensive prospects.

Look at the absolute plateaus of Forsberg, Johansen, and Fiala and how much they improved after being separated from Laviolette, or the fact that Laviolette has never improved a team consistently over his first 3 years of tenure.

You won't and haven't so far, but maybe eventually you'll bother to look some of that up.

 

[g00n]

Stick your head in the sand all you want, it didn't come from nowhere. It's not really the fault of Capitals fans that the Nashville Predators didn't and still don't have a ton of strong offensive prospects.

Look at the absolute plateaus of Forsberg, Johansen, and Fiala and how much they improved after being separated from Laviolette, or the fact that Laviolette has never improved a team consistently over his first 3 years of tenure.

You won't and haven't so far, but maybe eventually you'll bother to look some of that up.

Actually I did the last time this was discussed.

That's how I know for a fact Forsberg got plenty of ice time under Lavi and produced well.

There is no conspiracy.

Also not sure why you're so salty these days. Want to talk about it?

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

 

[g00n]

If Lavi hates young players so much why has he leaned on Fehervary so much?

 

[HTFN]

Actually I did the last time this was discussed.

That's how I know for a fact Forsberg got plenty of ice time under Lavi and produced well.

There is no conspiracy.

Also not sure why you're so salty these days. Want to talk about it?

lol really?

I guess I just don't have the time to waste on a 12 paragraph post that will inevitably be deleted anyway where I air all my grievances

 

[um]

Does CMM practice ever?

You talking about practice?

 

[HTFN]

If Lavi hates young players so much why has he leaned on Fehervary so much?

because the one thing Fehervary doesn't try to do is put the puck in the net. When he gets burned playing defense it's still in the act of playing defense, not playing offense and being countered, so in Laviolette's mind it's pretty much going according to plan.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

in part because they're sticking him on the wing and making him play in board battles he's not suited to, developing him as something he's not and probably never will be so that he can earn the chance to be developed like the player he already is?

He’s going to have to overcome a lot of battles to become a regular. Being useful, by being able to adequately play wing just to get into the lineup should be a priority for him.

I don’t see the logic in weakening the integrity of a line to squeeze him in. When he’s ready he’ll take the spot. Until then send him down.

 

[HTFN]

He’s going to have to overcome a lot of battles to become a regular. Being useful, by being able to adequately play wing just to get into the lineup should be a priority for him.

I don’t see the logic in weakening the integrity of a line to squeeze him in. When he’s ready he’ll take the spot. Until then send him down.

But that's like asking Danny Briere to go out there and win on the boards. You're asking an IQ player and something of a soft-spot poacher to go to the hard areas and then playing shocked Pikachu when he doesn't do super well. Even his OHL highlights aren't really heavy on puck carrying and separation, it's kind of always been about him showing up in soft spots before the opponent and capitalizing on reading the play from his natural position.

You aren't going to create another player here, it's time to develop and use the one they drafted.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

because the one thing Fehervary doesn't try to do is put the puck in the net. When he gets burned playing defense it's still in the act of playing defense, not playing offense and being countered, so in Laviolette's mind it's pretty much going according to plan.

Come on…..he lets Fever sink or swim because he’s a grown ass man who was already NHL-ready in their eyes the year BEFORE his rookie year. CMM being borderline ready today in what should be his rookie year….it’s just different.

You get this. You’re just pissed he can’t cement himself in the lineup over guys you dislike or think should be gone now, or sometime soon. Have some patience is the only option.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

But that's like asking Danny Briere to go out there and win on the boards. You're asking an IQ player and something of a soft-spot poacher to go to the hard areas and then playing shocked Pikachu when he doesn't do super well. Even his OHL highlights aren't really heavy on puck carrying and separation, it's kind of always been about him showing up in soft spots before the opponent and capitalizing on reading the play from his natural position.

You aren't going to create another player here, it's time to develop and use the one they drafted.

I’m sure Danny Briere when he was busting his ass to crack the NHL took a few damn shifts at wing and didn’t regularly look average at best. Stop making up false dilemmas. An NHL-ready C, should not greatly struggle to play wing.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It's certainly possible. But if that's the case, why aren't we looking for someone else to stop the offensive sputtering of the 3rd line? Eller's not terrible, but "not terrible" shouldn't be acceptable if you're trying to win games. And this isn't a hate-on-Eller thing. One of our most pressing issues right now is that we're not scoring enough. We have lotsa wing talent and a 3C that is allergic to offense.

If Eller were currently setting the world on fire in one way or another maybe there'd be a reason to settle. But he's not. So as long as we're a middling team that can't score and that line in particular is showing zero chemistry, why not give the kid a chance? He and Eller are an apples and oranges comparison in styles, and right now our team is desperate for some oranges.

Why isn't anyone interested in answering that question? Eller is on pace for the same 30-ish points he put up when his wings were Panik and Hagelin, despite his current wings having way more offensive potential. Why are we settling?

now this is an interesting question….to upgrade or not. Who, how much, what’s up with Backstrom, cap implications, do they want CMM and another prime prospect + a first to get this new player?

or are you just looking for a moderate upgrade….say a 50pt C guy…

 

[HTFN]

I’m sure Danny Briere when he was busting his ass to crack the NHL took a few damn shifts at wing and didn’t regularly look average at best. Stop making up false dilemmas. An NHL-ready C, should not greatly struggle to play wing.

You positive? Love to see it, if you can find it. Otherwise you'd better shut all the way up about creating false dilemmas while you're patently making up whatever the f*** you want.

 

[hb13xchamps]

If Lavi hates young players so much why has he leaned on Fehervary so much?

Because one does not bench a 1st ballot HOFer, duh (francais words, not mine)

In all seriousness tho his potential playing time was blocked by the Chara signing during Fever’s sophomore season. He spent the majority of the year on the taxi squad and then was eventually sent to the AHL.

 

[Rayquaza64]

Quite frankly the best solution to the CMM "problem" if the team/coaching/whoever doesn't think he's ready is to send him to hershey, and I get injuries and whatnot but it's shocking he hasn't been sent down for someone they potentially trust more, such as a vecchione or a sgarbossa

or hell, someone more fit/used to playing a bottom six role, like shane gersich

 

[Jags]

If Lavi hates young players so much why has he leaned on Fehervary so much?

Because the GM gave him no other choice. Name the vet that sat so Fehervary could play. I don't think anyone thinks Lavi's aversion to youth (or irrational attraction to vets) is a wacky compulsion. He'll play kids that make the choice a no-brainer.

In other words, it was Fever or Irwin, and Lavi's predilection isn't that profound. So he played Fever and TvR on his weak side. How the pairs sorted out chemistry-wise is its own thing.

 

[RedRocking]

It's certainly possible. But if that's the case, why aren't we looking for someone else to stop the offensive sputtering of the 3rd line? Eller's not terrible, but "not terrible" shouldn't be acceptable if you're trying to win games. And this isn't a hate-on-Eller thing. One of our most pressing issues right now is that we're not scoring enough. We have lotsa wing talent and a 3C that is allergic to offense.

If Eller were currently setting the world on fire in one way or another maybe there'd be a reason to settle. But he's not. So as long as we're a middling team that can't score and that line in particular is showing zero chemistry, why not give the kid a chance? He and Eller are an apples and oranges comparison in styles, and right now our team is desperate for some oranges.

Why isn't anyone interested in answering that question? Eller is on pace for the same 30-ish points he put up when his wings were Panik and Hagelin, despite his current wings having way more offensive potential. Why are we settling?



Name the great teams that have stayed great settling for lackluster performance while waiting years for contracts to expire. We need more from that position. I don't care who it is. It's not Eller, and if it's not McMichael either and the organization is okay just letting the kid stagnate for a year playing next to no hockey anywhere, why not trade him and Eller and whatever else it takes to fix the f***ing problem?

At least TRY to make the team better.

But our top two centers are oranges, and liabilities in the defensive end. You want Dowd double shifting constantly in defensive situations?

I still see value in what Eller brings to the table right now. And I think his role makes sense. If you don’t, that’s fine - agree to disagree. It’s not his fault that top 6 guys like Kuzy aren’t producing or that we’re missing guys like Wilson, or Oshie.

If we’re sellers at the TDL, then yea Eller should go and we should try one of the kids in that spot. But we’re not there yet.

Also we have no way of knowing whether BMac is “trying” to improve perceived weak spots on the roster. Just because a trade hasn’t materialized, doesn’t mean he isn’t trying. It’s a known unknown.

 

[Jags]

CMM being borderline ready today in what should be his rookie year….it’s just different.

And CMM vs Eller is less profound a distinction. Lavi's predilection allows for that one. Eller doesn't just suit the vet mold, but also the defense-first, low-risk hockey he has us playing.

 

[Jags]

now this is an interesting question….to upgrade or not. Who, how much, what’s up with Backstrom, cap implications, do they want CMM and another prime prospect + a first to get this new player?

or are you just looking for a moderate upgrade….say a 50pt C guy…

It would have been easy to force the situation by just moving Eller in the offseason like they should have. No cap implications to that. The other guy costs 80% less. At this point in his career there are options to replace what Eller brings for less money. Bring in a vet on a tryout as a possible stopgap if need be. Take the risk. Invest in the talent you drafted; talent that played well at the position and could improve more.

I'm fine if we try to improve and it doesn't work out. But constantly standing pat with players that don't produce when there are other options out there is frustrating. So yeah, I'd like to see them give the other options they have in-hand a chance at the spot. That's Step 1. If that fails, proceed to Step 2.