Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

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Rayquaza64

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I know the odds of it happening are probably low as it seems they are grooming Scott Allen to take over head coaching duties, but this offseason I'd love to see the caps make a run at bringing Spencer Carbery back. He has familiarity with the players and I liked how he ran things in Hershey during his tenure.
 

RedRocking

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I am not overreacting this year. I think we are a very mediocre club, even when healthy. But fans are upset because it has been 4 straight years of going this direction without any real changes in the plan or vision for the franchise. And every year we are told we are overreacting when we can so clearly see the writing on the wall. Eventually a rebuild was going to have to happen but I think better coaching/management should have gotten us one or two more deep runs before that.
Nah, it’s cool, I get it. Just trying to add a some levity, and maybe a little perspective.

But, all criticisms are valid and I get people being frustrated and venting.

This is a very average team that is just gonna have to try and tread water for a bit, hoping for people to return to health, return to form and for some consistent chemistry to develop. I mean, the mixing and matching of the D pairings has been ridiculous - no wonder they can’t cleanly exit a zone or have breakdowns.

So they’re not as bad as last night, but also not as good as they were on Friday night. But ultimately they did split with TB on this home and home.

For me it’s not the end of the world if they miss the playoffs this year. I haven’t viewed them as real contenders for a couple years. There will be a lot that needs to be decided after this year.

Maybe GMBM can drastically remake the team on the fly with the $ he will have available. As long as Ovi is playing and chasing the record, they’re gonna to try to at least appear to be a playoff caliber team, and try to avoid a rebuild. But most likely we’re just inching closer to the tipping point when the the inevitable downturn towards irrelevancy and the rebuild happens. And yea, that is going to suck.

So I just try to enjoy the good stuff from what remains of Ovi and these guys, as they will most likely be the best Caps core I will see in my lifetime.
 

DWGie26

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Agreed, and I’ve been a GMBM defender in the past but drafting and development under his watch has been far from ideal. Drafting some boom or bust guys the past few drafts may pay off down the line with Lappy and Miro both falling. The development and development plan just doesn’t seem to really be in place. They spend years developing these guys to lose them on waivers. I get that some of them aren’t pushing for spots, but you have to think some of them can thrive in the right environment.

It’s hard to point a finger at who is responsible for what duties, but he’s the GM so you’d think it still falls underneath him. I liked his off-season for the NHL roster. It’s a shame that Brown was injured so quickly.
Caps believe in bring prospects along slowly. We know this. CMM got fast tracked and it is not turning out well so it kinda points at why Caps prefer slow.

I think Lapierre is developing nicely. Protas has played in every game. I would have liked to see Leason earn a spot (care less about AJF). Fever. Snively was a nice find. I think Beck is a good 4th liner and nothing more. Some good pulls with Strome, Milano, and even Mojo. Don’t like Gus… rather see LuJo or Alexey get some games but they need to force it. Iorio looks really good but needs this year at least. Chelsey is exciting. Main thing we lack is top line talent so hopefully Miro can fill that.

But overall I like what GMBM has done given what he was told to do. Could be much worse with bad GM. I think he is a top 5-10 GM in the league.
 

Hivemind

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"Caps prefer bringing prospects along slowly" is some real post-hoc justifications for this. Prior to Laviolette, the Capitals have a very limited track record of slow cooking prospects, especially those taken in earlier rounds. Backstrom was a full-time NHLer in his D+2 season. Alzner had tastes of the NHL in his D+2 (30 games) and D+3 (22 games) and was full time at D+4. Carlson had 29 games in his D+2 season and was full-time in his D+3. Johansson was full time in his D+2 season. They played contractual games with Orlov and hand him on the NHL/AHL yo-yo (plus he suffered at the hands of Oates' preference for handedness), but he had 60 games of NHL experience in his D+3 season. Cody Eakin had 30 games on NHL experience in his D+3 season before he was traded. They fast tracked Tom Wilson to the NHL, with him appearing in 3 playoff games in his D+1 season and being full-time in his D+2 season (when he wasn't even eligible for the AHL). Burakovsky played 53 NHL games (to 13 AHL games) in his D+2 season. Vrana is the "slowest" of their forwards, and that's because he had a wrist injury in his D+2 year that cost him months (he would split NHL/AHL time in his D+3 year).

Unless you're looking exclusively at Kuznetsov (who they couldn't get over to the US) and Alexeyev (who's been plagued with injury issues), the vast majority of their 1st round picks are not being slow cooked. The forwards are generally cracking the NHL in their D+2 season, and usually not looking back after that. D+3 is generally as long as they wait.

For reference, McMichael is now in his draft+4 season. Lapierre is in his D+3.
 
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Vilica

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I feel like there are a lot of parallels between Eller, Stephenson, and McMichael in terms of how the center hierarchy influences the success of a player. In Montreal, Eller had an argument that he deserved better wingers than he got, or more power play time (not to mention the whole Desharnais/Quebecois thing). He might not have been better than Plekanec, but there wasn't anybody else blocking him in striving for top 6 minutes. He gets traded to DC, and suddenly the 2 centers in front of him are Backstrom and Kuznetsov. He can look at them and see, I'm not as talented as them (and also emotional maturity with being 27 instead of 23), and sit in that 3rd line center job. He gets put in a place to succeed (and also it helped that Washington was deep enough that the top 9 wingers he got were as good as the top 6 wingers he had in Montreal).

Stephenson breaks through in 17-18 as his first year, and his competition at center after the Cup win was Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Eller, Dowd - same as Eller, not going to play ahead of a healthy Backstrom or Kuznetsov. He competed against Eller and Dowd, and while he may not have been given the fairest shake, it's always harder to demonstrate you belong with your defensive performance compared to your offensive performance. He struggled with that, and was traded to Vegas where the center hierarchy beyond William Karlsson was an old Paul Stastny, and he got to play with Stone and Pacioretty. That's the equivalent of say Ovechkin-Wilson, but a coach that has both Backstrom and Kuznetsov is never going to give Stephenson the rope to prove he deserves to play top 6 minutes, and Stephenson really isn't dynamic enough offensively to be that productive without elite wingers.

Now we have McMichael, and so far this year he's run into both Eller and Stephenson's issues. He has an argument for being as talented as Strome or Eller, and that he should be given the opportunity to prove he deserves top 6 center minutes, but he hasn't been able to do so yet. At the same time, he's been blocked from bottom 6 center time by Eller and Dowd, and the argument that their defensive duties outweigh the need to give McMichael minutes. So he ends up caught in this limbo, one that won't be resolved until an injury or the trade deadline. I don't blame GMBM for bringing in Strome, and he's been about as good as we could have hoped for, but he's basically blocking the exact minutes that McMichael needs to play (if we want to find out how good he can be).

Also, I've been meaning to do a draft breakdown of picks from the last 6 drafts of GMGM (08-13) and the first 6 drafts of GMBM (14-19), and though I'm not going to go into detail, I think the biggest thing people need to realize is that the ROI from 08-13 was basically a top 2 percentile return, and that was never going to be sustainable. Not only did they hit on virtually every 1st round pick, multiple later round picks became significant contributors. Furthermore, a lot of complaints about this draft period go away if they take Debrincat over Johansen, or if Samsonov is closer to Sorokin or Shesterkin. Even then, look at the 2018 and 2019 drafts - how many players taken after Fehervary or Protas are you wanting Washington to take over either in a redraft? In terms of expected pick value [Vanecek, Siegenthaler, Fehervary, Protas] is much closer to the value one would expect from late round picks, not drafting Holtby and Orlov and Grubauer and [Eakin, Boyd, Djoos, Carrick, Stephenson, Bowey, Sanford].
 
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Jags

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I feel like there are a lot of parallels between Eller, Stephenson, and McMichael in terms of how the center hierarchy influences the success of a player.

You summarized all this very well, and there are certainly parallels one can draw between the various center logjams each of those players experienced. However, in Washington, the issue all over the lineup has been an inexplicable refusal to embrace natural turnover.

Even in cases where it's as natural as it gets -- a hole appears in the lineup at the same time a prospect at that position is ready to step up -- they've very often brought in a vet to prevent that from happening. Pay more to a guy with no future with the organization rather than paying way less to develop a guy that might stick and provide years of cost savings and years beyond that if you want to keep him.

It's a risk for sure, but the possible upside is huge and it's correctable if it doesn't work out.

Then there's the forward-thinking examples. Eller definitely had value heading into the 19-20 season. He was still performing at his career averages, figured to have productive years ahead of him, and was signed for 4 more years at a good number. But he wasn't a gamebreaker for us. The things he was best at were things Stephenson also had knacks for, only Stephenson was 5 years younger, cost-controlled, faster, better on the forecheck, and certainly had more offensive awareness.

Despite the revisionist history here, the bottom line with Stephenson is that Reirden buried him on the fourth and had a ridiculous tendency to rotate personnel there so no one could gel. Everyone on that line suffered during his stint as HC. Stephenson was every bit as good as Eller and then some, at a time when we could have traded Eller for significant return. Or just futures, cuz we damn sure needed the money at the time.

And again, this isn't because Stephenson was so great. He was better than we like to remember, and Eller was far more unremarkable than we like to admit. This is the kind of no-brainer foresight good GMs should have. Eller was never bad for us, but we always could have gotten more from his position and never should have settled for the lackluster talent we had on the 3rd during that stretch.

Now it's worse because Eller is 3 years older and the wings around him are a lot better than they used to be. We have wings on our 3rd line that can really score, centered by a guy who can't. He's ill-equipped to help them leverage what we need most from them.

And I don't really give a shit if McMichael is the answer. My point all along has been that we need to get SOMEONE into that spot; that we can't just keep settling for a sputtering 3rd line. If McMichael can't hack it, find someone who can. Waiting for Eller's expiration date is inexplicable.

"But we might get 6% worse at killing penalties!"

Yep, and we also might save 2.75m at the position with more offensive production and find out that someone else can step up and PK admirably the way someone always seems to every season.

"But we need the depth at center!"

Give me a percentage of how much worse you think all of our other center options are than Eller right now. I mean seriously, Lars Eller is not the difference between winning and losing. It is not difficult to replace what he brings to the table. He's just not that impactful anymore. I like the guy and he certainly doesn't suck, but it's not that hard to get better at his spot.

And you can sing basically the same song about other young players we quit on to embrace guys with higher pricetags and no future.

I've generally liked GMBM from the beginning. I think he's done far more good than bad, and I haven't supported canning him because there are way shittier managers out there, what he's proven to be bad at can be fixed, and I don't want to cut our nose off to spite our face. But this is definitely one of those "proven to be bad at" things.

Sorry for the novel. This message will be available in paperback and digital soon at a store near you. ;)
 

trick9

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It would be very curious to hear from Laviolette regarding the McMichael -case. Right now it seems painfully obvious that GMBM wants him to stick with the NHL-team but Laviolette doesn't trust him enough to play him. But i find these circumstances interesting. Looking into the game logs from early last season McMichael did get decent amount of ice-time from Laviolette. Yes, there were injuries but that really hasn't changed in any way for this season. If anything, our forward core is worse than it was year ago. Yet there was a 23-game stretch last season where McMichael only played below 10 minutes twice. During that he played 14+ minutes few times and even had his career-high of 15:46 once. After that his minutes dipped back to around 10.

But what's interesting is his usage this season. It's not surprising for veteran coach to dive back to older guys later on in the season when the stakes get higher but right now there seems to be very little trust at all for CMM. Only time he played over 10 minutes is against Arizona. This is where it would be interesting to hear from Laviolette and hear his opinion on the matter. Did CMM have a bad pre-season? Is he not working hard enough? Did he respond badly to having his ice-time cut last season and the start of this season? I don't think the matter is so black-and-white that Laviolette just benches him because he is a rookie. He did use him for extended period last season and that was when the Capitals were playing great hockey. It would also be interesting to hear his opinion on whether CMM should be in the Hershey. Being around the team is great and should benefit him but enough should be enough. He was here the entire last season. At some point if you don't see the results in there you need to blow the whistle and get back to basics and most importantly, playing competitive hockey. Giving him couple of minutes here and there isn't good for anyone because he seems scared to make a mistake out there. I do feel we are reaching close to the breaking point regarding his development. They need to have a plan for him for the rest of the season because otherwise he is going to follow the Leason -route right out of the waivers at the start of next season.
 

Brian23

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I don't think the matter is so black-and-white that Laviolette just benches him because he is a rookie.
I wouldn't say it's specifically that, but I think that's a part of it unintentionally.

I'd bet it's as simple as the team is destroyed by injuries but Lavi knows he has to win to keep his job. If that's the case, he's not gonna give a damn about next week or next year or anything beyond the next game. He's going to lean entirely on his veterans and limit/not play any rookies or young players (Fehervary withstanding) unless he absolutely has too. Why? Because for some reason it's just expected a veteran is never going to make mistakes a rookie does. And he doesn't feel like he has any cushion to be comfortable giving guys time to gel/develop.

That's not even a Lavi thing, it's just a general hockey trope. A veterans mistakes are always excuseable and a young/rookie's are always back breakers.
 

StrikingDistance

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Milano taking line rushes with the 1st line at practice today in FL.

Also: Liked what McCarthy said after the terrible Bolts game. Maybe Lavi getting covid was the perfect interview for the future HC?
 

Holtbyisms

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Milano taking line rushes with the 1st line at practice today in FL.

Also: Liked what McCarthy said after the terrible Bolts game. Maybe Lavi getting covid was the perfect interview for the future HC?
Too much Lavi on him, I want a fresh regime for a rebuild who will flame out eventually and be replaced by a vet who can get them over the hump in 2032. lol
 

Brian23

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Also: Liked what McCarthy said after the terrible Bolts game. Maybe Lavi getting covid was the perfect interview for the future HC?
He's 65 and has literally only been an assistant to Lavi for almost 20 years. I dunno what part of that is Future HC.

Also, it's kinda crazy. Didn't Nashville fans hate McCarthy? And/or the Flyers fans did the same?
 
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StrikingDistance

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He's 65 and has literally only been an assistant to Lavi for almost 20 years. I dunno what part of that is Future HC.

Also, it's kinda crazy. Didn't Nashville fans hate McCarthy? And/or the Flyers fans did the same?
Didn’t know his full history. Sorry, I don’t keep track of loser coaches on other teams, only when they come to DC and disappoint. Lol
 

RedRocking

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"Caps prefer bringing prospects along slowly" is some real post-hoc justifications for this. Prior to Laviolette, the Capitals have a very limited track record of slow cooking prospects, especially those taken in earlier rounds. Backstrom was a full-time NHLer in his D+2 season. Alzner had tastes of the NHL in his D+2 (30 games) and D+3 (22 games) and was full time at D+4. Carlson had 29 games in his D+2 season and was full-time in his D+3. Johansson was full time in his D+2 season. They played contractual games with Orlov and hand him on the NHL/AHL yo-yo (plus he suffered at the hands of Oates' preference for handedness), but he had 60 games of NHL experience in his D+3 season. Cody Eakin had 30 games on NHL experience in his D+3 season before he was traded. They fast tracked Tom Wilson to the NHL, with him appearing in 3 playoff games in his D+1 season and being full-time in his D+2 season (when he wasn't even eligible for the AHL). Burakovsky played 53 NHL games (to 13 AHL games) in his D+2 season. Vrana is the "slowest" of their forwards, and that's because he had a wrist injury in his D+2 year that cost him months (he would split NHL/AHL time in his D+3 year).

Unless you're looking exclusively at Kuznetsov (who they couldn't get over to the US) and Alexeyev (who's been plagued with injury issues), the vast majority of their 1st round picks are not being slow cooked. The forwards are generally cracking the NHL in their D+2 season, and usually not looking back after that. D+3 is generally as long as they wait.

For reference, McMichael is now in his draft+4 season. Lapierre is in his D+3.

Ok, so CMM played in 68 games in his D+3 season. That’s pretty good given the examples you are relying on. Now, Protas looks to be a full-timer this year (after playing 33 games last year).

Is it a young player thing, or a CMM thing? Protas worked hard in the off-season, had a great camp and is now a regular. Why can’t it be possible that CMM is just not good enough right now? It’s always all on Lavi and the organization?

If he’s not good enough, then I totally understand the argument that he should be sent down to Hershey at some point (maybe once some bodies come back).

Also he is clearly better at C, and we currently don’t have a spot for him there. Next year Eller will be gone, and he should have a good shot at 3C, if he earns it. Why isn’t that good enough for some people?
 
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HTFN

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Ok, so CMM played in 68 games in his D+3 season. That’s pretty good given the examples you are relying on. Now, Protas looks to be a full-timer this year (after playing 33 games last year).

Is it a young player thing, or a CMM thing? Protas worked hard in the off-season, had a great camp and is now a regular. Why can’t it be possible that CMM is just not good enough right now? It’s always all on Lavi and the organization?

If he’s not good enough, then I totally understand the argument that he should be sent down to Hershey at some point (maybe once some bodies come back).

Also that he is clearly better at C, and we currently don’t have a spot for him. Next year Eller will be gone, and he should have a good shot at 3C, if he earns it. Why isn’t that good enough for some people?
Because he... didn't look that bad or get caved in through his metrics? Getting benched after scoring is weird, period. If it lined up and made sense people wouldn't be talking about it the way they do, but he doesn't produce substandard results in his limited time and looks much better in his natural position.

If you know you're getting rid of Eller you don't just sit around waiting for next year, you start deploying Eller on the wing and seasoning your replacement, even if it's only every 5th game or something, so that you're not left holding the bag if the plan doesn't actually work the way you want it to work. It's really not rocket science or some foreign concept to player development.
 

hb13xchamps

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Ok, so CMM played in 68 games in his D+3 season. That’s pretty good given the examples you are relying on. Now, Protas looks to be a full-timer this year (after playing 33 games last year).

Is it a young player thing, or a CMM thing? Protas worked hard in the off-season, had a great camp and is now a regular. Why can’t it be possible that CMM is just not good enough right now? It’s always all on Lavi and the organization?

If he’s not good enough, then I totally understand the argument that he should be sent down to Hershey at some point (maybe once some bodies come back).

Also that he is clearly better at C, and we currently don’t have a spot for him. Next year Eller will be gone, and he should have a good shot at 3C, if he earns it. Why isn’t that good enough for some people?
Because Lavi has a track record of favoring veteran players over younger guys. Predators fans came out in full force when the Caps hired Lavi and said he hated young players and was always favoring vets. They also didn’t have great things to say about McCarthy either when he decided to come on board.

As for McMichael, it’s been debated in here for close to a year but his underlying metrics were solid, yet he constantly is bottom of the team in TOI. You also could watch a game and see McMichael make solid plays only to be benched for the majority of the third period. There’s clearly no trust there and that’s fine, but it’s a disservice to the player to have him be a healthy scratch when he could play 18-20 minutes a night in Hershey. He could be getting meaningful minutes on the PP and they could be grooming him to PK if they wanted to. He could be working on other aspects of his game that they think he’s lacking in.
 

Empty Goal Net

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Annual reliance on a 'puncher's chance' (assuming the team actually qualifies for the 'loffs) may not be a better option than 'let's see what we've got coming up' by giving young 'uns opportunities to play significant minutes in their natural positions during the RS. [This doesn't mean playing youth only because vets have been injured.]

Balancing minutes by interspersing players with fresher bodies instead of burning out old legs by overplaying vets may actually put a team in a better position to compete in the playoffs.

Missing the playoffs in year x because you've given youth a chance may give a team a greater chance of playoff success in year x+1 because those youth are further along in their development than they would've been if they only got 8 minutes a night - or had nacho line duty - in year x.
 

RedRocking

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Because he... didn't look that bad or get caved in through his metrics? Getting benched after scoring is weird, period. If it lined up and made sense people wouldn't be talking about it the way they do, but he doesn't produce substandard results in his limited time and looks much better in his natural position.

If you know you're getting rid of Eller you don't just sit around waiting for next year, you start deploying Eller on the wing and seasoning your replacement, even if it's only every 5th game or something, so that you're not left holding the bag if the plan doesn't actually work the way you want it to work. It's really not rocket science or some foreign concept to player development.

Because Lavi has a track record of favoring veteran players over younger guys. Predators fans came out in full force when the Caps hired Lavi and said he hated young players and was always favoring vets. They also didn’t have great things to say about McCarthy either when he decided to come on board.

As for McMichael, it’s been debated in here for close to a year but his underlying metrics were solid, yet he constantly is bottom of the team in TOI. You also could watch a game and see McMichael make solid plays only to be benched for the majority of the third period. There’s clearly no trust there and that’s fine, but it’s a disservice to the player to have him be a healthy scratch when he could play 18-20 minutes a night in Hershey. He could be getting meaningful minutes on the PP and they could be grooming him to PK if they wanted to. He could be working on other aspects of his game that they think he’s lacking in.
I’m honestly not one one to put much stock in what some other team’s bitter fans say. If Trotz had been let go after ‘17, or in mid ‘18 we’d be telling Isles fans that he is too conservative, boring coach, etc.. Canes fans love Lavi, for obvious reasons. That being said, I understand the examples of Forsberg, Fiala.

If the Caps were embracing or admitting that we were rebuilding, or stepping back and retooling than that strategy re Eller makes sense.

But, this team is still in win now mode. It’s probably delusional, but they still think they have a window of contention here. Or like to pretend they are while Ovi is still here. And imho Eller is a better player on a nightly basis right now. That’s the way the organization and coaching staff is gonna lean whether we like it or not. And the division and conference are more competitive than ever - each point counts so much.

Still it’s not like they don’t reward merit - see again Protas. Or Beck. Or even a newcomer like Milano, or late bloomer like Snively. I know CMM had good metrics last year, and definitely looked good at C for stretches. But xG aren’t the same as actual goals. And the kid, simply, cannot beat NHL goalies…at all. He’s a defensive liability (esp as compared to Eller), when we already have two in Kuzy and Strome.

In any event, I hope they figure out what to do with him so that he’s ready to compete for a C spot next year. Maybe they think being up here is the way to do that (very debatable obviously).

This year is so crucial as to the direction of the org. Ultimately, I wouldn’t mind missing the playoffs this year if it helps them embrace a longer view than just what will work this week (which has been the modus operandi for almost a decade), and perhaps getting a coach that wants to develop a team (and players) for the long haul.
 

HTFN

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I’m honestly not one one to put much stock in what some other team’s bitter fans say. If Trotz had been let go after ‘17, or in mid ‘18 we’d be telling Isles fans that he is too conservative, boring coach, etc.. Canes fans love Lavi, for obvious reasons. That being said, I understand the examples of Forsberg, Fiala.

If the Caps were embracing or admitting that we were rebuilding, or stepping back and retooling than that strategy re Eller makes sense.

But, this team is still in win now mode. It’s probably delusional, but they still think they have a window of contention here. Or like to pretend they are while Ovi is still here. And imho Eller is a better player on a nightly basis right now. That’s the way the organization and coaching staff is gonna lean whether we like it or not. And the division and conference is more competitive than ever - each point counts so much.

Still it’s not like they don’t reward merit - see again Protas. Or Beck. Or even a newcomer like Milano, or late bloomer like Snively. I know CMM had good metrics last year, and definitely looked good at C for stretches. But xG aren’t the same as actual goals. And the kid, simply, cannot beat NHL goalies…at all.

In any event, I hope they figure out what to do with him so that he’s ready to compete for a C spot next year. Maybe they think being up here is the way to do that (very debatable obviously).

This year is so crucial as to the direction of the org. Ultimately, I wouldn’t mind missing the playoffs this year if it helps them embrace a longer view than just what will work this week (which has been the modus operandi for almost a decade), and perhaps getting a coach that wants to develop a team (and players) for the long haul.
that's just not how this works though.

1.) they don't reward merit equally which is the problem. It's not like none of those players have made mistakes, but they don't get stapled to the bench as a result. the give and take is not equal and you only have to look as far as how they used Hagelin last year to understand that. That's not a guy who should be out when you need a goal, but he was, and regularly. It doesn't add up.

2.) they paint McMichael into that corner. You try taking your chances cleanly when you get so little playing time you don't have many, and your career seems to ride on each and every one. You pick a corner and miss the net and you suck, you cut it a few centimeters to close to the middle and the goalie snuffs your shot up in his crest. That's not a recipe for success if you don't let players adapt and re-approach the situation.

If you can't let a player make mistakes, let them go where they can or let them go for assets. For whatever reason, CMM is held to a pretty high standard there and frankly a lot of us can't actually tell what thing he's notably missing.
 
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g00n

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Because Lavi has a track record of favoring veteran players over younger guys. Predators fans came out in full force when the Caps hired Lavi and said he hated young players and was always favoring vets.

Again, where is the proof of this?
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I wouldn't say it's specifically that, but I think that's a part of it unintentionally.

I'd bet it's as simple as the team is destroyed by injuries but Lavi knows he has to win to keep his job. If that's the case, he's not gonna give a damn about next week or next year or anything beyond the next game. He's going to lean entirely on his veterans and limit/not play any rookies or young players (Fehervary withstanding) unless he absolutely has too. Why? Because for some reason it's just expected a veteran is never going to make mistakes a rookie does. And he doesn't feel like he has any cushion to be comfortable giving guys time to gel/develop.

That's not even a Lavi thing, it's just a general hockey trope. A veterans mistakes are always excuseable and a young/rookie's are always back breakers.
Are you criticizing Lavi for having the mentality that’s ingrained across all sports? ”next week or next year doesn’t matter. Our focus is on the next game, the next opponent”. The GM and others need to have an eye towards the future, not the coach so much.

Lavi’s primary job is to get this team into the playoffs by getting standings points NO MATTER WHAT. In his mind, he’s going to select the most NHL-ready lineup each night (as he should IMO with that as his primary directive). Development at the NHL level, is a ways down the KPI list I suspect.

….there are mistakes and rookie mistakes in the context of this conversation. They could both make the same mistake, but you don’t expect Vets to make mistakes that are learned from and eliminated (largely) by experience and coaching/analysis...and a Vet’s mistakes are not always excusable. I think the analysis from Lavi never gets that meaninglessly deep.

I doubt Lavi has ever sat down and looked at his roster and picked lineups based on who was going to make less mistakes. It’s who is better right now overall for the role we have available.
 
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g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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Are you criticizing Lavi for having the mentality that’s ingrained across all sports? ”next week or next year doesn’t matter. Our focus is on the next game, the next opponent”. The GM and others need to have an eye towards the future, not the coach so much.

Lavi’s primary job is to get this team into the playoffs by getting standings points NO MATTER WHAT. In his mind, he’s going to select the most NHL-ready lineup each night (as he should IMO with that as his primary directive). Development at the NHL level, is a ways down the KPI list I suspect.

….there are mistakes and rookie mistakes in the context of this conversation. They could both make the same mistake, but you don’t expect Vets to make mistakes that are learned from and eliminated (largely) by experience and coaching/analysis...and a Vet’s mistakes are not always excusable. I think the analysis from Lavi never gets that meaninglessly deep. I doubt Lavi has ever sat down and looked at his roster and picked lineups based on who was going to make less mistakes. It’s who is better right now overall for the role we have available.

You know what kinds of coaches develop players at the NHL level? Rebuild coaches. And they get cast aside as soon as the rebuild is transitioning to something better. Like Hanlon.

If we have players coming up who aren't ready to crack the lineup there's something wrong with the pipeline.
 

hb13xchamps

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Dec 23, 2011
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You know what kinds of coaches develop players at the NHL level? Rebuild coaches. And they get cast aside as soon as the rebuild is transitioning to something better. Like Hanlon.

If we have players coming up who aren't ready to crack the lineup there's something wrong with the pipeline.
They aren’t even attempting to develop McMichael at the NHL level, that’s the issue we are talking about. If the coaching staff doesn’t want to use him, send him down. Lavi has control over getting him ice time in Hershey. He can tell the GM he feels he isn’t ready full time. I’ve seen plenty of NHL shows that showcase how much a GM/Coach are in communication. Hell, it took about 5-6 forwards being out for him to finally get a sweater.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
31,278
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I can go back and dig up old posts/tweets later or are you looking for actual examples? Forsberg and Fiala are immediate examples in my mind.

Forsberg played plenty and scored plenty.

Fiala is the only one people even remotely can make a case for and I'm sure there's a counterpoint there.

So maybe one guy that's questionable? That's the "trend" we're relying on here.
 
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