Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[Ovi895]

The quotes sourced I think by a poster here about Orlov being impressed by the depth and dynamics of the coaching he was exposed to post trade did it for me. I don't think that was even meant to be a slight but it really underscores how behind they are in the game right now.

To be fair Boston's system this year is something else, looks like quitting the bottle added like 30 points to Monty's IQ.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Pretty cool she plays in the local beer leagues

 

[Caps8112]

because this board has a hate boner for mcmichael for literally no reason

neither have really been impressive in any way when they have had their chances as limited as they have been for MCM and almost none at all for the other.

 

[Brian23]

GMBM should have forced Laviolette’s hand and he didn’t. That was a pretty irritating decision both at the time and in retrospect.

I don't think GMBM has that power over Lavi like you'd think a more stereotypical GM and Coaching hierarchic would allow, but even if he did I'm still not sure he'd of done it. Hell, even if GMBM was a Lou level GM I don't think he'd do that to a veteran coach, that'd sour a lot of people in the league and you never want to do that.

What probably should have happened is as soon as they decided to sell off, they should have agreed to let Lavi go and bring in someone that they could dictate minutes and deployments too. But that also might have pissed Ovi off more. At least now you can say you've given him the chance to go for the playoffs instead of entirely punting the year.

neither have really been impressive in any way when they have had their chances as limited as they have been for MCM and almost none at all for the other.

wut. Lapierre was on fire when he first called up, very similar to Burakovsky. He was just much younger and needed more seasoning, but that was a very impressive showing when he was 18 or 19.

CMM was also very impressive as a rookie his year 1. Everyone on this board seems far to caught up in what have you done for me lately (ala Mantha). There isn't a single leg to stand on if you want to claim CMM was set up to succeed this year. He was jerked around, zero minutes, and if it could kill his confidence it was done this year. His bounce back in Hershey after that treatment, to me, is very encouraging.

 

[g00n]

Lavi and Gmbm have been in the business a long time. Jokes aside about contract talks, that tends to foster mutual respect.

When executives and experienced managers interact in most organizations they don't lord their position over the others. Some famously megalomaniacal assholes do, but I don't get the impression Gmbm is that type.

My guess is Lavi and Gmbm discuss the more important overlapping elements of their jobs and rarely is anything just handed down from on-high and "f*** you if you don't like it". There's probably not any punching upward from Lavi against an immovable object, either.

The long-term franchise plans that might not include Lavi, such as contract lengths for players and managing the cap, are probably kept mostly inside Gmbm's inner-circle unless it impacts Lavi, but other than that the roster construction and general "style" or "theme" behind the team play is likely collaborative. Trade bait would be similar. Nightly roster decisions would be informed by this in general but generally left to the coaches and players.

So a lot of the speculation about power dynamics that pin everything on one guy or the other, with one having hands tied somehow, are probably mostly overstatements of the true relationship.

My opinion. I don't have inside info.

 

[Caps8112]

I don't think GMBM has that power over Lavi like you'd think a more stereotypical GM and Coaching hierarchic would allow, but even if he did I'm still not sure he'd of done it. Hell, even if GMBM was a Lou level GM I don't think he'd do that to a veteran coach, that'd sour a lot of people in the league and you never want to do that.

What probably should have happened is as soon as they decided to sell off, they should have agreed to let Lavi go and bring in someone that they could dictate minutes and deployments too. But that also might have pissed Ovi off more. At least now you can say you've given him the chance to go for the playoffs instead of entirely punting the year.


wut. Lapierre was on fire when he first called up, very similar to Burakovsky. He was just much younger and needed more seasoning, but that was a very impressive showing when he was 18 or 19.

CMM was also very impressive as a rookie his year 1. Everyone on this board seems far to caught up in what have you done for me lately (ala Mantha). There isn't a single leg to stand on if you want to claim CMM was set up to succeed this year. He was jerked around, zero minutes, and if it could kill his confidence it was done this year. His bounce back in Hershey after that treatment, to me, is very encouraging.

It was 6 games 2 years ago and none this season. I know people are saying that Lavi doesn't play kids but dont see a lot of hope for a 1st round pick that can only get into 6 games with 1 goal (first game?) over 2 years. Agree that CMM was moved all over the place, benched and generally just treated as an after thought but again hes a first round pick. I hope im wrong and they turn out great but neither have really shown much and you would think caps management thinks that way too based off of what's happened. Management should literally just release mantha. Havent hated watching a player as much as him since Jeff Schultz. Common theme of giagantic useless, lazy, uninspired hockey player. Would rather watch any of the prospects in his spot all season.

 

[Misery74]

Laviolette made his bed

I don't think GMBM has that power over Lavi like you'd think a more stereotypical GM and Coaching hierarchic would allow, but even if he did I'm still not sure he'd of done it. Hell, even if GMBM was a Lou level GM I don't think he'd do that to a veteran coach, that'd sour a lot of people in the league and you never want to do that.

What probably should have happened is as soon as they decided to sell off, they should have agreed to let Lavi go and bring in someone that they could dictate minutes and deployments too. But that also might have pissed Ovi off more. At least now you can say you've given him the chance to go for the playoffs instead of entirely punting the year.


wut. Lapierre was on fire when he first called up, very similar to Burakovsky. He was just much younger and needed more seasoning, but that was a very impressive showing when he was 18 or 19.

CMM was also very impressive as a rookie his year 1. Everyone on this board seems far to caught up in what have you done for me lately (ala Mantha). There isn't a single leg to stand on if you want to claim CMM was set up to succeed this year. He was jerked around, zero minutes, and if it could kill his confidence it was done this year. His bounce back in Hershey after that treatment, to me, is very encouraging.

All this.

The brutal truth is we wasted a whole year of contracts and development. It was easy to see, after the loss to Florida, Laviolette was part of the problem, not the solution.

After the sell off, keeping him made no sense.

 

[twabby]

I don't think GMBM has that power over Lavi like you'd think a more stereotypical GM and Coaching hierarchic would allow, but even if he did I'm still not sure he'd of done it. Hell, even if GMBM was a Lou level GM I don't think he'd do that to a veteran coach, that'd sour a lot of people in the league and you never want to do that.

What probably should have happened is as soon as they decided to sell off, they should have agreed to let Lavi go and bring in someone that they could dictate minutes and deployments too. But that also might have pissed Ovi off more. At least now you can say you've given him the chance to go for the playoffs instead of entirely punting the year.

I'm not saying GMBM should tell Laviolette "play these players or else." But he should dictate available players to a large extent, and he should have traded Eller this offseason so that one of Protas and McMichael would be playing center this year. What good came of 60 games of Lars Eller and months of Protas/McMichael eating nachos in the press box?

 

[Misery74]

I'm not saying GMBM should tell Laviolette "play these players or else." But he should dictate available players to a large extent, and he should have traded Eller this offseason so that one of Protas and McMichael would be playing center this year. What good came of 60 games of Lars Eller and months of Protas/McMichael eating nachos in the press box?

He should have waived Irwin, and Smith as soon as he was acquired. Really the only way he can assert control over lineup choices.

 

[Brian23]

It was 6 games 2 years ago and none this season. I know people are saying that Lavi doesn't play kids but dont see a lot of hope for a 1st round pick that can only get into 6 games with 1 goal (first game?) over 2 years. Agree that CMM was moved all over the place, benched and generally just treated as an after thought but again hes a first round pick. I hope im wrong and they turn out great but neither have really shown much and you would think caps management thinks that way too based off of what's happened. Management should literally just release mantha. Havent hated watching a player as much as him since Jeff Schultz. Common theme of giagantic useless, lazy, uninspired hockey player. Would rather watch any of the prospects in his spot all season.

wut. Being a mid to late round pick normally means they're not even seeing playing time for 2 to 3 years. Lapierre is right on track to get his feet wet next year. CMM is the bigger issue, but (as I said) this being the year he should have seen more action was completely foiled by an absolute mismanagement from the coaching staff.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I'm not saying GMBM should tell Laviolette "play these players or else." But he should dictate available players to a large extent, and he should have traded Eller this offseason so that one of Protas and McMichael would be playing center this year. What good came of 60 games of Lars Eller and months of Protas/McMichael eating nachos in the press box?

He should have waived Irwin, and Smith as soon as he was acquired. Really the only way he can assert control over lineup choices.

I’m not saying you guys are wrong necessarily but coaches talk and if a GM is forceful in which players to play and when and if a GM starts making roster decisions to force a coach’s hand, that’s going to be known among coaches and potential coaches. Similar to a certain owner of a certain professional football team overstepping his management and coaches to make roster and draft decisions, it’s not how a healthy organization runs and it’s a bad reputation to have. I will talk out of both sides of my mouth though and say that I wanted Eller traded last off-season and I wanted some youth infused into the lineup and I’m disappointed in many of the lineup decisions this year, so I understand the frustration.

That said, I also think there’s not enough credit being given to the fact that this team would have been a virtual lock to make the playoffs this year without the injuries (2nd most man games lost in the NHL). They almost made it anyway even with everything going wrong for them and with a sell-off. They were also a few inches away from taking a 3-1 series lead on the PT winners last year, so it’s understandable why they brought back many of the same band members.

Even though it might be frustrating, this year has unfolded exactly as it was spelled out before the season. GMBM said this was the last bite at the apple with this group unless they proved worthy of staying together. They didn’t, both due to their own deficiencies and due to a ton of rotten luck, so BM pulled the plug on this group and started selling off. Now we wait to see what the next part of the plan is.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Right. I am excited for a new coach and new regime of coaching leaders. It’ll be fun to see how things end up.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

To comment on our center prospects. I’m fine with them having a season in Hershey. CMM is on a tear and playing big minutes. Lappy even admitted he’s hit a wall playing a full AHL season. I hope we don’t get stupid and trade them to soon like all our other young players.

 

[Ridley Simon]

To comment on our center prospects. I’m fine with them having a season in Hershey. CMM is on a tear and playing big minutes. Lappy even admitted he’s hit a wall playing a full AHL season. I hope we don’t get stupid and trade them to soon like all our other young players.

I am ok trading any of them, as long as it’s a good deal. Obv we are all scarred by the Erat/Forsberg deal, and for good reason.

However if the team needs to use any of their prospects or picks to get a younger cost controlled player (like the Sandin deal), then I’m all for it.

 

[twabby]

I’m not saying you guys are wrong necessarily but coaches talk and if a GM is forceful in which players to play and when and if a GM starts making roster decisions to force a coach’s hand, that’s going to be known among coaches and potential coaches. Similar to a certain owner of a certain professional football team overstepping his management and coaches to make roster and draft decisions, it’s not how a healthy organization runs and it’s a bad reputation to have. I will talk out of both sides of my mouth though and say that I wanted Eller traded last off-season and I wanted some youth infused into the lineup and I’m disappointed in many of the lineup decisions this year, so I understand the frustration.

That said, I also think there’s not enough credit being given to the fact that this team would have been a virtual lock to make the playoffs this year without the injuries (2nd most man games lost in the NHL). They almost made it anyway even with everything going wrong for them and with a sell-off. They were also a few inches away from taking a 3-1 series lead on the PT winners last year, so it’s understandable why they brought back many of the same band members.

Even though it might be frustrating, this year has unfolded exactly as it was spelled out before the season. GMBM said this was the last bite at the apple with this group unless they proved worthy of staying together. They didn’t, both due to their own deficiencies and due to a ton of rotten luck, so BM pulled the plug on this group and started selling off. Now we wait to see what the next part of the plan is.

Didn’t MacLellan pretty much force his hand by selling off at the deadline? I can’t imagine Laviolette was happy that Orlov, Hathaway, Johansson, Gustafsson, and Eller were traded because they were still in the hunt for a wild card at the time yet he still pulled the plug and traded 5 of his most trusted players.

Removing one player from the lineup last offseason (Eller) shouldn’t cause any tension between coach and GM, and if so then maybe the coach just isn’t the right guy.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Didn’t MacLellan pretty much force his hand by selling off at the deadline? I can’t imagine Laviolette was happy that Orlov, Hathaway, Johansson, Gustafsson, and Eller were traded because they were still in the hunt for a wild card at the time yet he still pulled the plug and traded 5 of his most trusted players.

Removing one player from the lineup last offseason (Eller) shouldn’t cause any tension between coach and GM, and if so then maybe the coach just isn’t the right guy.

“Still in the hunt” is generous. They had just come off an 0-6-0 stretch right after BMac said he needed to see some positive progress. They had something like three or four regulation wins in their last 15 or 20 games. They were given plenty of opportunities to correct the ship before MacLellan pulled the plug.

 

[g00n]

“Still in the hunt” is generous. They had just come off an 0-6-0 stretch right after BMac said he needed to see some positive progress. They had something like three or four regulation wins in their last 15 or 20 games. They were given plenty of opportunities to correct the ship before MacLellan pulled the plug.

Yuuuuuuppp.

That FLA debacle was the last straw. 4pt game. Then Canes and Wings beat us. Done. Orlov traded soon after.

That was the right time to make moves.

Are they playing better? Hard to tell. Depends on the competition. Carlson returning seems to help. But it's not a given they'd have improved onE bit if they'd kept the players they traded. Maybe trading them improved the team by lighting a little fire.

Not that it's enough to get over the hump. Unless for some reason our Gs get super hot and go on a shutout streak...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Didn’t MacLellan pretty much force his hand by selling off at the deadline? I can’t imagine Laviolette was happy that Orlov, Hathaway, Johansson, Gustafsson, and Eller were traded because they were still in the hunt for a wild card at the time yet he still pulled the plug and traded 5 of his most trusted players.

Removing one player from the lineup last offseason (Eller) shouldn’t cause any tension between coach and GM, and if so then maybe the coach just isn’t the right guy.

I think PL knows futility when he sees it. These moves were not surprises to him.

I don’t see this as an organization where PL was not involved in some form of management discussions prior to moving their movables.

I’m sure the convo was something like “Dick, Peter, Ted we can all see it’s too much to overcome these injuries and player regression, and the roster needs a massive overhaul. (everyone nods in agreement) PL was probably like ”I’ll do my best with whatever you give me”….there was no hand forcing. It was a byproduct of moves they all knew needed to happen when it got down to when the remaining schedule and their record dictated that decision.

 

[kicksavedave]

Re: Lavi and GMBM, Mac has stated in the past around the Trotz departure that he felt the shelf life of an NHL coach is less than 9-10 years, which informed their hesitancy to extend BT for another 5 year deal (I believe they offered him 2 or 3 more years?). Negotiations with Lavi probably broke down over term, but could have also broken down over "Not winning a single playoff series... Hard to say, but both are valid.

Heck, Lavi could also have simply said I'm not interested in a half assed rebuild, so lets just call it good and I'll go seek one last hurrah elsewhere. Lavi may also be considering his next gig not being behind the bench? Who knows.... regardless, there will be a new HC next year.

Carberry or Halpern for me.

 

[twabby]

“Still in the hunt” is generous. They had just come off an 0-6-0 stretch right after BMac said he needed to see some positive progress. They had something like three or four regulation wins in their last 15 or 20 games. They were given plenty of opportunities to correct the ship before MacLellan pulled the plug.

I mean they were in the hunt in that they were ~24% to make it at the time Orlov and Hathaway were traded per Hockeyviz.

Certainly not favorites to make it, but also not at the ~1% they are to make it now. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they pulled the plug, but it's not like they had no chance to get back to the playoffs at the point they pulled the plug. They could have easily just held onto everyone and had a very good shot at making the playoffs, especially given how the bubble teams in the East can't stop losing.

I guess I just don't see much difference between making a decision for the medium and long-term good of the franchise at the TDL vs. making a decision for the medium and long-term good of the franchise last summer. Again, it's not like Eller was coming off a good season. I don't think trading him and leaving Laviolette with Protas/McMichael/whoever to play center would have damaged the relationship. It was a misstep by MacLellan IMO.

 

[usiel]

Pretty cool she plays in the local beer leagues

I'm assuming HNA is Hockey North America? If so they have divisions that can pretty skilled. Did do that for a few years somewhere in the B range. Coed teams which was also cool.

 

[Capitals40]

Problem with Caps...top 6. Caps have one of the worst top 6 in the league. Mantha is crap, Backstrom has nothing left,
Kuzy is...I don't know what he is anymore. Ovi is old and back to pre-Trotz, Adam Oates days..yes he scores but cares nothing about D, skating up the ice while opponent has the puck in caps zone. Wilson is nothing what he used to be. Will he find his form next season? Time will tell. Oshie still has skills but is always injured. Until this is fixed Caps will struggle.

 

[Misery74]

AA looks like he absolutely belongs in the top
6. Not sure why we waited all year to see this. Would like to see CMM get a look down the stretch.

Are we officially eliminated yet?

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Can we have Halpern as the HC and Dahlen and Kono as the assistants?