Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[Langway]

There's precisely zero reason to presume that more isn't coming or that there's somehow not a plan to retool.

So you believe they will indeed move two of Kuznetsov/Mantha/Oshie in the off-season? Even then given some of their limited vets like Backstrom & Carlson I'd have a hard time projecting them squarely back in the competitive mix next season. It depends but it's obvious they will need to get a lot right. They will need to stack a lot of wins together transactionally in a league where no one is likely to do them any favors. It doesn't mean it can't happen but it's quite a task. Hard realistically to sort out all of that, including presumably a new coach, in one off-season. The mere idea of a more sustained challenge competitively shouldn't be dismissed at this stage. It's not the end of the world. Cycles like this happen all the time. Mainly, once you begin the process of stripping back heart from a team like this one and leave in place the opposite...you wonder if the room survives. Beyond the question of adding impact they'll need to replace that as well.

Maybe missing the competitive spirit of the playoffs invigorates some of their players going into next season and a new coach refreshes their approach but I don't think it's that simple any longer. There are limitations on the books that they'll need to be incredibly resourceful to overcome.

 

[Calicaps]

So you believe they will indeed move two of Kuznetsov/Mantha/Oshie in the off-season? Even then given some of their limited vets like Backstrom & Carlson I'd have a hard time projecting them squarely back in the competitive mix next season. It depends but it's obvious they will need to get a lot right. They will need to stack a lot of wins together transactionally in a league where no one is likely to do them any favors. It doesn't mean it can't happen but it's quite a task. Hard to sort out all of that, including presumably a new coach, in just one off-season. The mere idea of a more sustained challenge competitively shouldn't be dismissed at this stage. It's not the end of the world. Cycles like this happen all the time. Mainly, once you begin the process of stripping back heart from a team like this one and leave in place the opposite...you wonder if the room survives. Beyond the question of adding impact they'll need to replace that as well.

Maybe missing the competitive spirit of the playoffs invigorates some of their players going into next season and a new coach refreshes their approach but I don't think it's that simple any longer. There are limitations on the books that they'll need to be incredibly resourceful to overcome.

Yes--or even sooner--if there's a beneficial deal available.

 

[Hivemind]

Who said anything about "proven vets"? Only you.

You made your statement in response to a comment suggesting they get offensive talent internally (via existing prospects and the draft). You stated that approach wasn't feasible. So if that's not an endorsement of proven vets, then I assume you want to acquire young RFAs and prospects from other teams?

 

[Raikkonen]

also reading they are in talks with gus... makes me angry

 

[IafrateOvie34]

also reading they are in talks with gus... makes me angry

He can probably sign for cheap is why is my guess. It sure isn't for his defense lol.

 

[Calicaps]

You made your statement in response to a comment suggesting they get offensive talent internally (via existing prospects and the draft). You stated that approach wasn't feasible. So if that's not an endorsement of proven vets, then I assume you want to acquire young RFAs and prospects from other teams?

right, which is different than building through the draft which is specifically what I was responding to. but young and established isn't the same as proven vet IMO

 

[PlushMinus]

He can probably sign for cheap is why is my guess. It sure isn't for his defense lol.

I like Gus. He is a pretty good offensive D. Not so great on actual defence but then neither is Erik Karlsson.

(or John Carlson lol).

Nothing wrong with having a guy like that on your team. And I still think Carlson might be a long way from coming back to play, or if he ever will. But that's just pessimisim I guess.

 

[YippieKaey]

How much more would Erik Karlsson cost in a trade vs. Jakob Chychrun? (Rhetorical question, I’m sure no one here knows for sure)

I think Chychrun is a good player but he’s not a future Norris winner. He’s not a guy that can single-handedly turn around a team’s offense. I just don’t know that he’s the guy Washington should be targeting when Karlsson is available. I think someone with a similar impact as Chychrun could be available much cheaper.

Yes Karlsson has had his injuries and yes his cap hit is much higher, but if they are looking for a quick retool then they have to consider a home run swing like Karlsson given the lack of impact talent on the rest of the roster.

Chychrun is much better defensively, bigger, stronger, younger and absolutely has potential to challenge for a Norris.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Jensen next! Good time to try and resign Sheary cheaper than he would have cost earlier in the year. Same with Mojo…..he’s probably happy to stay on a reasonable 1 yr deal.

Maybe one of them. Forward group needs some room for younger legs me thinks.

 

[YippieKaey]

How about this:

Ovi-Strome-Wilson
Kuzy-Bäckström-Brown
Protas-CMM-Sheary
LW grit/agitator-Dowd-Smith

Fever-Carlson
TvR-Chychrun
Mcilrath-Gus

Lindgren
Someone

That is a realistically attainable lineup that could, if players perform close to their potential, both leave some cap space and reach the playoffs. Also Lapierre and one of Iorio/Johansen could be circulated into the lineup if for instance Mcilrath sucks. I do think a player like him is needed for this team who has a very soft backend.

Trading Kuemper and Oshie could probably get us dome good stuff.

 

[g00n]

When it's a coveted puck-moving D like EK all the absolutes about "only results matter, no excuses like COVID" and "everyone over 30 declines" and "defensemen only get worse with age" all go out the window.

Weird.

In general, teams have had almost 20 years to learn how to retool and get back in the race without spending the traditional 3-5 years in a rebuild.

That's what I expect Gmbm to do. The only question is whether he'll have the balls to move a few of the older Cup Legacy players.

I don't think Lavi comes back. I think they're just giving him the dignity of not being fired in a lost season.

 

[pman25]

I’d endorse an EK move. We’re already screwed with old guy contracts anyway, might as well ride it out with an old guy who’s actually elite. Risky, yes but I’d respect a move like that. But what to do with John Carlson?

 

[RedRocking]

When it's a coveted puck-moving D like EK all the absolutes about "only results matter, no excuses like COVID" and "everyone over 30 declines" and "defensemen only get worse with age" all go out the window.

Weird.

In general, teams have had almost 20 years to learn how to retool and get back in the race without spending the traditional 3-5 years in a rebuild.

That's what I expect Gmbm to do. The only question is whether he'll have the balls to move a few of the older Cup Legacy players.

I don't think Lavi comes back. I think they're just giving him the dignity of not being fired in a lost season.

And weren’t we all just musing about how Orlov was kinda dodgy defensively his first few years…but then (gasp!) he got much better? Maybe there’s hope for Fever after all - I personally like his upside, and am interested in seeing how he does playing opposite Jensen, rather than being jerked around with a rotating cast of bums and kids.

If we were to keep one of Mojo/Sheary, I would prefer Mojo, since he’s good on the PP, is a solid puck mover, and is a savvy guy who makes the right plays. I’d like to see Snively take Sheary’s spot since they have kind of a similar skill set.

The NYR seemed to manage one of the quickest retools I can remember. I guess hitting on someone like Shesty will do that. But still, they did it with a combo of young guys and seemingly random FAs. We’ll see what GMBM can pull off. If he can flip Orlov for Chychrun, who will only cost 4.5M for the following two seasons (making it easier to keep Jensen/TVR), that would be pretty great.

 

[twabby]

Chychrun is much better defensively, bigger, stronger, younger and absolutely has potential to challenge for a Norris.

I think the problem I have with targeting Chychrun is that Washington has no one aside from Ovechkin who can score goals. Chychrun isn’t really a guy who’s going to help much in that regard, while Karlsson could be an immense help even if it’s a riskier move.

If they do end up getting Chychrun then they would have limited assets left to make further moves this offseason to bolster their impotent offense. Chychrun seems like a safer but much lower-ceiling move. I don’t think a safe move is what is called for at this point. If they were starting a complete rebuild? Sure, Chychrun might be a good foundational piece.

 

[Holtbyisms]

(if)Similar price tag for EK and Chychrun there's no question in my mind I'm taking Chychrun. In the off-season I was begging for us to make a move for him. At the cost of two first rounders though in this deep of a draft I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger. Either one of them suddenly reopen the window in our current state. That said we call it a year this year...move salary out at the deadline there's an interesting UFA group that could help us retool depending on who resigns before the ufa deadline.

 

[trick9]

And weren’t we all just musing about how Orlov was kinda dodgy defensively his first few years…but then (gasp!) he got much better? Maybe there’s hope for Fever after all - I personally like his upside, and am interested in seeing how he does playing opposite Jensen, rather than being jerked around with a rotating cast of bums and kids.

If we were to keep one of Mojo/Sheary, I would prefer Mojo, since he’s good on the PP, is a solid puck mover, and is a savvy guy who makes the right plays. I’d like to see Snively take Sheary’s spot since they have kind of a similar skill set.

The NYR seemed to manage one of the quickest retools I can remember. I guess hitting on someone like Shesty will do that. But still, they did it with a combo of young guys and seemingly random FAs. We’ll see what GMBM can pull off. If he can flip Orlov for Chychrun, who will only cost 4.5M for the following two seasons (making it easier to keep Jensen/TVR), that would be pretty great.

It helps when there is a Norris -level D prospect available that refuses to play for anyone but you.

 

[Langway]

Chychrun is still just 24 so he could be a longer-term piece. He's a guy that could maybe net 50+ points playing on this team. That said, of course they'd still need to make upgrades up front.

Ovechkin - Strome - Wilson / McMichael? - Kuznetsov - Oshie is just not going to cut it. Not close. Keep Mantha and plug him in instead of McMichael and it's still a very disadvantaged top six.

Bold predictions for the NHL trade deadline: One pick for all 32 teams

Patrick Kane on Broadway? Or playing next to Connor McDavid? And where do Jakob Chychrun and Timo Meier land?

theathletic.com

Washington Capitals
They part with a prized prospect: You could say the Caps already made a bold move by dealing veterans Dmitry Orlov and Garnet Hathaway to Boston an hour before a “must win” game over the last-place Ducks, which they lost 4-2. But my sense is that general manager Brian MacLellan is just getting started. To me, the next potential bold move might involve parting with former first-rounders Connor McMichael and/or Hendrix Lapierre, the Nos. 2 and 3 prospects in Washington’s pool, per colleague Scott Wheeler. Yes, the Caps are trying to get younger. But they’re also trying to kickstart an aggressive roster retool, which means adding NHL-proven players to the Alex Ovechkin-led roster — not those who still require on-the-job training. — Tarik El-Bashir

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Chychrun is still just 24 so he could be a longer-term piece. He's a guy that could maybe net 50+ points playing on this team. That said, of course they'd still need to make upgrades up front.

Ovechkin - Strome - Wilson / McMichael? - Kuznetsov - Oshie is just not going to cut it. Not close. Keep Mantha and plug him in instead of McMichael and it's still a very disadvantaged top six.

Bold predictions for the NHL trade deadline: One pick for all 32 teams

Patrick Kane on Broadway? Or playing next to Connor McDavid? And where do Jakob Chychrun and Timo Meier land?

theathletic.com

I am all for moving CMM because I think he’s overrated and has the highest value league-wide, but I think it would be a huge mistake to move Jimi.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Probably overvaluing our guys a bit, but Gus, Sheary, and even MoJo have put up quite productive seasons. Jensen is Jensen. Eller has a good rep. A team will take a chance on Mantha at his all-time low in terms of value. Who gives a flying f*** about NAK.

Gustafsson - 2

Sheary - 2

Johansson - 2/3

Mantha - 2/3

Jensen - 1

Eller - 2/3

NAK - Next to nothing.

 

[pman25]

I am all for moving CMM because I think he’s overrated and has the highest value league-wide, but I think it would be a huge mistake to move Jimi.

I’d say the opposite. Lapierre doesn’t impress me too much. McMichael has had the production in each league (OHL, AHL) and Lapierre didn’t really have gaudy production in the QMJHL, a weaker league to begin with. He’s still riding the high from his debut game where he scored.

Either way, I’d definitely move one. Whichever one a team likes in the trade, take them!

Winnipeg should be a good trade partner to nab another 2nd or 3rd. Their bottom six is already meh and they lost perfetti. Eller and Sheary would be good fits

 

[crab]

Not sure I agree about the Game 7. That absolutely sucked; they should have won that series, but the loss was on Holtby (and a bit injuries). The Covid season was absurd and maybe it buried them, but even last year they had a legit chance to upset Florida and were undone largely by goaltending.

Moreover, they were solid playoff qualifiers each of those years (yes I know they were WC2 last year but with 100 points. Next best was 84.).

I don't disagree that some different roster decisions could and probably should have been made at times since the Cup run, but even last year they were still a functional, if not great, team.

Holtby was awful against the Hurricanes. They should have won that series

 

[YippieKaey]

I think the problem I have with targeting Chychrun is that Washington has no one aside from Ovechkin who can score goals. Chychrun isn’t really a guy who’s going to help much in that regard, while Karlsson could be an immense help even if it’s a riskier move.

If they do end up getting Chychrun then they would have limited assets left to make further moves this offseason to bolster their impotent offense. Chychrun seems like a safer but much lower-ceiling move. I don’t think a safe move is what is called for at this point. If they were starting a complete rebuild? Sure, Chychrun might be a good foundational piece.

Yeah Chychrun is ten years younger and this team is too FUBAR for Karlsson to make a real difference. EK would probably produce at a similar or slightly higher rate than JC whilst only being good for max 2 more years or so (unless he completely bucks the aging curve which is unlikely given his toolbox being skatingdependent).

At the same time Chychrun is better at defense and has been producing at a similar rate to John Carlson this season and probably would increase his production if he could pass it to Ovi. He also comes at 1/3 the price which opens up like 7-8 million to sign an actual goal scoring forward. We already have an EK65 light in Carlson (probably unless the injury is worse than believed) but Chychrun is more like an improved version of Orlov which we don't have right now.

But yeah, for this season EK65 might be better but he's not getting us into the playoffs (i think) so what's the point.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Haven't looked through all of the thread so it may have already been mentioned but Elliott Friedman noted that both the Dallas Stars and NJ Devils have been heavily scouting the Capitals.

Jim Nill, GM for the Stars is familiar with Jensen as Nill was in the Red Wings organization when they had drafted Jensen.

Friedman also noted that the Capitals seemed to be on the fence with some of their UFAs, that is negotiating with them while still gauging what the market might be for them.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Tom Wilson will be 29 years old at the end of March. This time next year he'll be a pending UFA and about to turn 30. What if at that time he takes a stance similar to Orlov, regarding both term and money. Would you want to resign him under those circumstances.

We all love what Wilson brings, but have to believe that his style of play will result in a sharp drop off at some point.

Just spitballing, but what if during the summer the Capitals trade Wilson and Mantha (for cap purposes) straight up to the Sharks for EK.

Such a move of course is about Ovie breaking the record.

 

[Brian23]

Just spitballing, but what if during the summer the Capitals trade Wilson and Mantha (for cap purposes) straight up to the Sharks for EK.

Someone could beat that package, and it'd still be a massive mistake. Make yourself immensely weaker for a guy who's on a heater.

I just do not get the EK love. It's like the previous 4 or 5 years just didn't happen. That's even ignoring he costs 11.5 million dollars. It feels like the ultimate shiny toy syndrome.