Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

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Rayquaza64

McMichael>McDavid
May 30, 2019
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eller for walker or roy would be very beneficial for this team i believe. not only does it stop and endless rotation it also allows us to have some depth and not pick one of AA/Irwin to play 9 mins a night and double shift some guys
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
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eller for walker or roy would be very beneficial for this team i believe. not only does it stop and endless rotation it also allows us to have some depth and not pick one of AA/Irwin to play 9 mins a night and double shift some guys
Our 6th D is what we’re hoping to upgrade? I’d like to make a more meaningful move than that myself. I’d rather upgrade the top 4 and move TVR down.

Some people are builders and like going from 0 to 1, others like taking something already built and making it better or their own. No different in sports management than it is in the real world.
McPhee sealed his own fate when he gave a quote along the lines of ”not everyone who started this journey will be here at the end”…..was after someone was traded away I think.
 

Jags

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May 5, 2016
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The Blaine Forsythe signed puck is up to $100 with four bids. Clearly none of those four people are posters here.

I'm in on it, and am determined to get it. I have several plans for it.

1) Expertly reproduce his signature and place it on a resignation letter that includes the sentence, "You, Mr. Leonsis, are a twat." The idea is that Ted gets so pissed that he doesn't bother to check if it's real.​
2) Hope that his essence or whatever is still on it so I can pay a voodoo shaman to turn it into a makeshift effigy doll that you can stick pins in to make Blaine writhe, cry, and pee on himself. If it works, I figure I can multiply my money reselling it here.​
3) If I can get his fingerprint or DNA off it, I can frame him for murder. This feels like the most promising idea, but if I don't want to commit a murder then I have to find an unsolved one. He's too young for Kennedy, so I figured Biggie or Tupac. Then I thought Biggie AND Tupac. I'll keep you posted.​
EDIT: It occurs to me now that I should say that I'm kidding. If any of these things actually happened to him, someone here could print a copy of this, label it Exhibit A, and send it to the cops. I'd like to think you'd have my back, but I know I irritate some of g00n. Some of YOU, rather...
 
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ClevelandCapsfan

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Caption this photo.
41A3471F-90F7-4D63-9938-DC95CE8FEC0B.jpeg
 
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SecretaryofDefense5

Registered User
Mar 20, 2022
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Guys I’d like to see the Caps re-sign:

1.) TVR - Dude has been fantastic and could probably be signed at a decent price.

2.) Orlov - I would like him to come back but depends on the price.

3.) Hathaway - Can’t argue his effectiveness with Dowd.
 

EroCaps

Registered User
Aug 24, 2003
18,171
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Move Mantha/seller, picks, whatever for Horvat.

He’s exactly what they need if they’re even feigning at competing these next few years.
 

Rayquaza64

McMichael>McDavid
May 30, 2019
1,447
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Virginia
I'm in on it, and am determined to get it. I have several plans for it.

1) Expertly reproduce his signature and place it on a resignation letter that includes the sentence, "You, Mr. Leonsis, are a twat." The idea is that Ted gets so pissed that he doesn't bother to check if it's real.​
2) Hope that his essence or whatever is still on it so I can pay a voodoo shaman to turn it into a makeshift effigy doll that you can stick pins in to make Blaine writhe, cry, and pee on himself. If it works, I figure I can multiply my money reselling it here.​
3) If I can get his fingerprint or DNA off it, I can frame him for murder. This feels like the most promising idea, but if I don't want to commit a murder then I have to find an unsolved one. He's too young for Kennedy, so I figured Biggie or Tupac. Then I thought Biggie AND Tupac. I'll keep you posted.​
EDIT: It occurs to me now that I should say that I'm kidding. If any of these things actually happened to him, someone here could print a copy of this, label it Exhibit A, and send it to the cops. I'd like to think you'd have my back, but I know I irritate some of g00n. Some of YOU, rather...
if you ever figure out the second one i'll start the bidding....
 

um

Registered User
Sep 4, 2008
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McPhee did a lot of good things here. He also did some bad things. You give him credit for Ribs and Grabovski but he also famously said he didn’t need to sign a 2C because Brooks Laich was their Mike Richards. We don’t need to rehash the Forsberg trade and there are others not worth discussing but to his credit he was a master at not handing out bad contracts and he deserves credit for a lot. Hell, he might have a statue in DC if he didn’t cheap out on Chara in 2006. Once the AAV hit $6M/year he bowed out, pivoted to signing Pothier, and Chara went to the highest bidder which was Boston. Imagine if he didn’t cheap out and we paired prime Big Z with prime Mike Green to go along in a few years with a young John Carlson and Karl Alzner. They may have won a Cup (or a few) earlier than they did.

My issue with George was he always hoarded his nuts. He always overinflated the value of his guys. A lot of his acquisitions were good depth players or short term bandaids but he never really took a swing for the fences. Maybe that’s for the best because when he did, he was on the wrong side of one of the worst trades in NHL history.
I also think back to the Pronger trade rumours. It was Carlson + 1st + something else significant. I can’t remember.

It would have been nice to win with the Young Guns in their prime.
 

usiel

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Wasn't Washington involved when Chara hit free agency in 2006. My own private musing that would have raised the potential of an earlier SC win considering his impact with Boston.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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I also think back to the Pronger trade rumours. It was Carlson + 1st + something else significant. I can’t remember.

It would have been nice to win with the Young Guns in their prime.
Pronger trade rumors were one of the young D (Carlson/Alzner) + one of the young goalies (Varlamov/Neuvirth) + 2x 1sts. McPhee's response was rumored to be "I'm not doing your rebuild for you"

If we look at what Philadelphia gave up (Lupul, Sbisa, two 1sts, conditional 3rd), it roughly matches the rumored price. At the time Lupul was a 25 year old coming off a 25G/50P season, and Sbisa was one year removed from being picked in the 1st round and had appeared in 39 NHL games as an 18/19 year old. Equivalent pieces from Washington would have been something like Brooks Laich, Karl Alzner and 2x 1sts.
 
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Raikkonen

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Pronger trade rumors were one of the young D (Carlson/Alzner) + one of the young goalies (Varlamov/Neuvirth) + 2x 1sts. McPhee's response was rumored to be "I'm not doing your rebuild for you"

If we look at what Philadelphia gave up (Lupul, Sbisa, two 1sts, conditional 3rd), it roughly matches the rumored price. At the time Lupul was a 25 year old coming off a 25G/50P season, and Sbisa was one year removed from being picked in the 1st round and had appeared in 39 NHL games as an 18/19 year old. Equivalent pieces from Washington would have been something like Brooks Laich, Karl Alzner and 2x 1sts.
well, Laich + Alzner + 2 #1 would have been ok.
 
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AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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895

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They were involved and they made him an offer. Once it went above George’s number he bowed it. Washington missed out on prime Big Z over $1.25M/year.



This was when the cap was 46m. So 7.5m for Chara was considered insane at the time. At the time most people considered Redden the guy who made the pairing tick, which is why Ottawa kept him over Chara. Chara also demanded the captaincy.
 
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crazy8888

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Sep 8, 2010
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All imma say is that defending Brouwer is some fighting words.

Man was the ultimate Passenger. Was right up there with Jeff Schultz as my most annoyed players in a Caps jersey.
I would have paid other teams $ and washed the GM'S cars just to get rid of Brouwer. Dude was garbage and to make it worse there was some unconfirmed speculations that he was a locker room cancer. I was ecstatic when they got rid of him.
 

Hivemind

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well, Laich + Alzner + 2 #1 would have been ok.
Anaheim picked Kyle Palmieri and Emerson Etem with the 2x 1sts they acquired from Philadelphia. If you sub in Washington's picks in those drafts it would be Marcus Johansson and Evgeni Kuznetsov. Playing with that kind of hindsight, I don't think I do the trade (we don't win in 2018 without Kuzy's Smythe-worthy performance). But obviously we can't really judge the trade using hindsight.

It's hard to say, as it's some alternate timeline. It's important to remember Pronger only had one year remaining on his contract, and his next contract was going to be a 35+ deal (as Paul Holmgren, Philly's GM at the time, famously didn't understand). He also played less than 150 games for the Flyers before injuries ended his career, and that aforementioned 35+ contract led the Flyers to pioneer the LTIRment approach with him.

On Washington's side of the coin, Laich still provided three more good seasons in Washington before the groin injury he suffered in Switzerland during the lock-out de-railed his career. Alzner was an iron-man and staple on the back-end for a long time. Assuming he stayed healthy, Pronger would have obviously been a big net upgrade over Alzner, but he did primarily play the right side (where the Capitals already had Green and Carlson), and it would have then left the Capitals still searching for their complimentary LD players not just for Green (which they never really found), but now Pronger and Carlson as well. It would have also been a very crowded powerplay formation, so to speak. Obviously long-term Carlson is the far far better asset than Alzner, but in terms of a early-2010s Capitals trade for Pronger, it may have made more sense to trade Carlson than Alzner. And that's still not really touching on how losing Laich and Johansson would have impacted their depth scoring (both replaceable, but there would be another sizeable contract on the roster in Pronger's meaning the dumpster dives would have to be good) and more importantly losing their eventual answer at the 2C position in Kuznetsov (2C being a revolving door during most of the first 10 years of Ovie's career).

I don't intend to sound like some other posters when saying "here's all the reasons we can't make so-and-so move," but this was a trade with a lot of ripple effects in the real world, and the hypothetical trade would have a similar (if not more) quantity of ripples. Given the 35+ contract, injury, LTIRment to Pronger, the fact that multiple draft picks are involved, and that we have the knowledge of the next 14 seasons of some of these player's careers, it's a hard one to try and balance the checkbook on.
 

Hivemind

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They were involved and they made him an offer. Once it went above George’s number he bowed it. Washington missed out on prime Big Z over $1.25M/year.

With hindsight, this is obviously one of the bigger misses for GMGM. A natural LD entering his prime without having to give up the type of assets they would have for Pronger (who was a 34 year old RD).

But it's also important to remember what the salary cap was back in 2006-07. These cap hits don't sound like much now. But in 2006, Chara's $7.5M was 17.05% of the entire salary cap. That's the equivalent of a $14.2M cap hit contract today in terms of salary cap proportion. It's a greater cap proportion than either Erik Karlsson's $11.5M or Drew Doughty's $11M contracts from 2019-20 (both around 14%). At the time, that was a big investment and a big risk.
 

Ridley Simon

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I mean, there's a lot of names on that Cup that are McPhee's draft picks and for that, he deserves some credit. He is what he is, a very good GM who never got over the hump. BMac didn't have to build anything from scratch, he inherited a well stocked team that just needed a few parts, and a good bit of luck too.
McPhee had his welcome way overstayed. 17yrs was too long, and cost this franchise more bites at the apple. That’s on Ted.

But I’m also not going to glorify his time here. He got lucky w Ovechkin. Got lucky Backstrom slid, and then had Mahoney to help make some really good later 1st round picks (and some bombs). Boudreau deserves more credit for that teams runs than George
 

Caps8112

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I looked up the 2008 UFA class as part of that post. It wasn't a good crop of goalies. Unless there was some name I didn't recognize when scanning the list, it was Theodore, Huet, and a bunch of guys who were functionally done in the NHL (Kolzig, Hasek, Thibault, Aebischer). The only goalies I recognize as being traded in the upcoming season were Pascal Leclaire and then Kolzig being salary dumped to Toronto. So not exactly a good trade group of goalies, either. I certainly didn't love Theodore, but he was the best solution available at the time.

Guys like Oshie don't fall off trees. There's a reason that even GMBM hasn't pulled off another Oshie trade (as much as some of us would have liked him to do something splashy in the past 2ish years to try and take another shot during the Ovie window). This was also an era in which they had internal forward options in Semin and Backstrom
I agree that free agent class doesnt look appealing. I didnt look at the whole league but below are the starters for the 16 playoff teams in 07-08 in no order. So the caps had pretty much close to the worst if not the worst goaltending going in. Again my point was that GMGM didnt do the things to improve the team significantly at the beginning of Ovis career. The franchise goalie didnt arrive for 6,7,8 years later? Once it was clear that Ovi was one of if not the best player in the league goaltending should have been immediately addressed via trade for whatever. How much better can then the future be then having prime Ovi. I agree with you about a lot of the other stuff you said about Mcphee building a team to last 10-15 years but thats only because he was unwilling to give up any of his prospects or picks. As far as the Oshie trade goes, I also agree that type of player is not readily available. We will never know what other players could have been available that he was unwilling to give up the assets for. It all worked out in the end with the cup win but maybe it could have been 3-1 cups for caps over Pitt if the right moves were made.

Huet
Osgood Hasek
Nabokov
Price
Fleury
Giguere
Brodeur
Backstrom
Turco
Lundqvist
Theodore
Biron
Gerber
Kirprusoff
Thomas
Ellis.
 

Vilica

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Jun 1, 2014
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With hindsight, this is obviously one of the bigger misses for GMGM. A natural LD entering his prime without having to give up the type of assets they would have for Pronger (who was a 34 year old RD).

But it's also important to remember what the salary cap was back in 2006-07. These cap hits don't sound like much now. But in 2006, Chara's $7.5M was 17.05% of the entire salary cap. That's the equivalent of a $14.2M cap hit contract today in terms of salary cap proportion. It's a greater cap proportion than either Erik Karlsson's $11.5M or Drew Doughty's $11M contracts from 2019-20 (both around 14%). At the time, that was a big investment and a big risk.
I agree with you that missing on Chara was the biggest what-if of Ovechkin's early career, but there are 2 things I want to quibble about. First, though I did it many moons ago, when I worked out the cap hits of the Caps in those first couple of seasons post-lockout, the sell-off that McPhee did removed basically all the large contracts on the team, so Chara's deal wouldn't have done anything to put the team in cap hell. Second, and probably way more important is that this was essentially the first full free agency period of the cap era. If the Chara opportunity comes a year or two later, or you give GMGM perfect information on how the cap was going to increase, and I think he's much more aggressive in his offers. He was hesitant because the only cap info he had was the rise from 39 to 44 from 05-06 to 06-07.
 

Raikkonen

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Anaheim picked Kyle Palmieri and Emerson Etem with the 2x 1sts they acquired from Philadelphia. If you sub in Washington's picks in those drafts it would be Marcus Johansson and Evgeni Kuznetsov. Playing with that kind of hindsight, I don't think I do the trade (we don't win in 2018 without Kuzy's Smythe-worthy performance). But obviously we can't really judge the trade using hindsight.

It's hard to say, as it's some alternate timeline. It's important to remember Pronger only had one year remaining on his contract, and his next contract was going to be a 35+ deal (as Paul Holmgren, Philly's GM at the time, famously didn't understand). He also played less than 150 games for the Flyers before injuries ended his career, and that aforementioned 35+ contract led the Flyers to pioneer the LTIRment approach with him.

On Washington's side of the coin, Laich still provided three more good seasons in Washington before the groin injury he suffered in Switzerland during the lock-out de-railed his career. Alzner was an iron-man and staple on the back-end for a long time. Assuming he stayed healthy, Pronger would have obviously been a big net upgrade over Alzner, but he did primarily play the right side (where the Capitals already had Green and Carlson), and it would have then left the Capitals still searching for their complimentary LD players not just for Green (which they never really found), but now Pronger and Carlson as well. It would have also been a very crowded powerplay formation, so to speak. Obviously long-term Carlson is the far far better asset than Alzner, but in terms of a early-2010s Capitals trade for Pronger, it may have made more sense to trade Carlson than Alzner. And that's still not really touching on how losing Laich and Johansson would have impacted their depth scoring (both replaceable, but there would be another sizeable contract on the roster in Pronger's meaning the dumpster dives would have to be good) and more importantly losing their eventual answer at the 2C position in Kuznetsov (2C being a revolving door during most of the first 10 years of Ovie's career).

I don't intend to sound like some other posters when saying "here's all the reasons we can't make so-and-so move," but this was a trade with a lot of ripple effects in the real world, and the hypothetical trade would have a similar (if not more) quantity of ripples. Given the 35+ contract, injury, LTIRment to Pronger, the fact that multiple draft picks are involved, and that we have the knowledge of the next 14 seasons of some of these player's careers, it's a hard one to try and balance the checkbook on.
no

get that true 1D

win first cup

make a statement that Caps is the best team now
and sign some UFA instead of drafting Kuzy

win more cups

do whatever in 2018 having multiple cups

problem solved
 
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