Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[g00n]

Yep, the phenomenal Carter Hart was pulled from today’s game against after giving up 4 quick goals. That Carter Hart whom the Caps couldn’t penetrate.

And? Everyone with a lick of sense saw Hart playing out of his mind on Saturday. His play today has f*** all to do with our game vs Philly.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Yep, the phenomenal Carter Hart was pulled from today’s game against after giving up 4 quick goals. That Carter Hart whom the Caps couldn’t penetrate.

It is possible for goalies to vary in performance from time to time.

 

[Rayquaza64]

It is possible for goalies to vary in performance from time to time.

no its not, goalies either always suck or are great goalies. no variance allowed in this definitely not variant sport!

 

[Langway]

Sheesh. Time flies.

 

[itsjustsurvival]

Uh….ok. I’m going to try and shift the conversation slightly. With all the angst about Strome the past few days, I’ve been trying to figure out where/if he fits in with club longer term.

He’s been real solid this year, definitely one of the best forwards, and best center. However, his skillset and style is so similar to Nick’s, it’s almost uncanny. So, what happens if Nick sustains his comeback and plays out his contract? What will Strome’s qualifying offer be, and will it be worth it (with all the FA needs) given the $ wrapped up in 19 and 92? It’s frustrating because neither 19 nor 92 (at present) is a real contender level 1C - but Strome isn’t really either IMO. Moreover, collectively the three guys are either too slow (19, 17), and/or suck defensively (92, 17). If Nick returns to form, maybe he can be the 200 ft guy to offset Strome/Kuzy.

Then the next consideration is the logjam of potential centers in the pipeline - Protas, CMM, Lappy - competing for 3C next year (or maybe Protas goes to 4C, and Dowd moves to 3C). All cheaper. Do we really want to block those options to run Kuzy-Nick-Strome-Dowd? Again, not sure I like the mix of skillsets of those top 3 centers. Maybe it’s worth it to just keep Strome around for Nick’s eventual retirement after 24-25? (or sooner pending health). It’s also generally not a good move to let a top 6 center just walk.

As a temporary replacement for Backstrom, one almost couldn’t imagine a better fit than Strome - he’s like a younger, less polished clone. The move by GMBM was a great hedge against Nick’s health. If Nick can’t resume his career, locking up Strome is a no-brainer. However, if Nick is able to resume his career, I think a temporary hedge may be all Strome is to the organization.

What do all you smart hockey folks think of the situation?

I agree there's some redundancy in having 3 top 6 centers that aren't true 1c's. It sucks that injuries have played such a large part regarding the roster as well because it's hard to shed depth if you constantly have to utilize it. I agree with your opinion that Strome plays a similar game to Backstrom, but the question I've been thinking about is:

If Backstrom is healthy and Strome can be extended a reasonable cap hit, does it make sense to move on from Kuznetsov? Kuznetsov has been one of my favorite players, but he's so ineffective despite his skillset in recent years. How much worse is Strome/Backstrom vs Kuznetsov/Backstrom at this point? I think team speed is a huge concern, but unless Kuznetsov finds some chemistry with linemates, I'm not sure how much they'd miss him. Mantha and Kuznetsov finding a way to be an effective line would really solve a lot for this team, but it does not look promising. Kuznetsov, Mantha, and Eller is a lot of cap dedicated to players without much impact.

While them sorting out their current center group internally is the most likely option, I wouldn't mind looking for a legit first line center even at the cost of a current 1st + Strome/Kuznetsov (curious what his no trade list looks like+ prospect + whatever. Getting an impact 1C really changes the calculation on how long their window is open. Highly unlikely and no idea what realistic targets are even out there. Health and the amount of pending free agents makes it really hard to predict where this goes.

Lastly, I guess it's no surprise with Yanic Perreault as a skills coach and being teammates with Toews, but Max Domi's recent improvements in faceoffs made me think:

If I was Strome/McMichael/Lapierre/Protas I would dedicate significant time to improving at faceoffs. We can debate on how important they are, but it's no secret it would really help their case with this coaching staff if they were above 50% effective in the dot.

 

[kicksavedave]

Sheesh. Time flies.

Just as time heals all wounds, and I may never forget the Forsberg trade, at some point GMGM deserves some credit. His first round draft record was pretty damn outstanding. A whole lotta names that had really good NHL careers, and only a handful of complete busts.

A little better luck in the lottery and he may have been able to win some playoffs series

 

[Raikkonen]

liked NB movement right before Wilson's goal but I will believe in his (NB) availability next season only when it will actually happen

id not trade Kuz before

even if Nicky will be available he's not actually young

I'd rather go with 3 expensive centers and look for value wingers like Milano

cheap 4LW from Denmark is what Caps need

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I agree there's some redundancy in having 3 top 6 centers that aren't true 1c's. It sucks that injuries have played such a large part regarding the roster as well because it's hard to shed depth if you constantly have to utilize it. I agree with your opinion that Strome plays a similar game to Backstrom, but the question I've been thinking about is:

If Backstrom is healthy and Strome can be extended a reasonable cap hit, does it make sense to move on from Kuznetsov? Kuznetsov has been one of my favorite players, but he's so ineffective despite his skillset in recent years. How much worse is Strome/Backstrom vs Kuznetsov/Backstrom at this point? I think team speed is a huge concern, but unless Kuznetsov finds some chemistry with linemates, I'm not sure how much they'd miss him. Mantha and Kuznetsov finding a way to be an effective line would really solve a lot for this team, but it does not look promising. Kuznetsov, Mantha, and Eller is a lot of cap dedicated to players without much impact.

While them sorting out their current center group internally is the most likely option, I wouldn't mind looking for a legit first line center even at the cost of a current 1st + Strome/Kuznetsov (curious what his no trade list looks like+ prospect + whatever. Getting an impact 1C really changes the calculation on how long their window is open. Highly unlikely and no idea what realistic targets are even out there. Health and the amount of pending free agents makes it really hard to predict where this goes.

Lastly, I guess it's no surprise with Yanic Perreault as a skills coach and being teammates with Toews, but Max Domi's recent improvements in faceoffs made me think:

If I was Strome/McMichael/Lapierre/Protas I would dedicate significant time to improving at faceoffs. We can debate on how important they are, but it's no secret it would really help their case with this coaching staff if they were above 50% effective in the dot.

Trading Kuznetsov is something they have to think about this off-season. He’s terrible defensively (except, somewhat ironically, on the PK) and he’s not driving play the way he used to. His scoring touch is gone though he still is an elite distributor of the puck.

That said, they’d have to have a lot of faith that McMichael and Lapierre are ready in the next year or two to be full time 2 and 3Cs. Assuming Eller is gone and you trade Kuznetsov this off-season, you’d assume McMichael is probably the 3C next year behind Strome and Backstrom. It’s unrealistic to think that Backstrom will be able to play every game at his age and it’s possible that his hip falls apart at any given moment, so you also need confidence that you have depth for injuries.

That is of course assuming they wouldn’t use Kuznetsov’s cap hit for someone else. Could they trade Kuznetsov and sign Larkin, for example, to a UFA deal this summer? Count me in as interested in that plan. Larkin will be entering his age 27 season next year and Strome is only 25 so you could conceivably wind back the age clock quite a bit and keep the window open.

Like many others on the team, I think Kuznetsov's future will be in part determined by how this year goes. If they miss the playoffs or flame out early I'd assume most things are on the table personnel wise. If they make a deep run and Kuzy plays well then moving him is probably not a conversation they'll have.

 

[bacchist]

Whenever I read this forum, I see comments about Kuzy being an elite passer, but whenever I watch the games all I see him do is skate around in circles before giving away the puck by taking some absurd angle zero percentage shot.

 

[Hivemind]

Whenever I read this forum, I see comments about Kuzy being an elite passer, but whenever I watch the games all I see him do is skate around in circles before giving away the puck by taking some absurd angle zero percentage shot.

I get your frustration (Kuzy certainly does a lot of the circle around the outside movie), but I think he's demonstrated his playmaking and passing ability fairly regularly. He's definitely a plus passer and particularly gifted playmaker, especially when he's on his game.

At his best, Kuzy can protect the puck and then thread the needle to dangerous emerging threats:


Even when he's not at his best, he can still find good opportunities via his passing. This is from last night's game, seeing the opportunity and then hitting a cross-ice pass perfectly onto Gus' stick to generate Oshie's goal.

 

[bacchist]

At his best

That was 7 years ago, though. We haven't been getting him at his best.

The pass last night was a decent play, but pretty routine. I feel like half the team can make that play.

 

[kicksavedave]

Whenever I read this forum, I see comments about Kuzy being an elite passer, but whenever I watch the games all I see him do is skate around in circles before giving away the puck by taking some absurd angle zero percentage shot.

Kuzy is certainly capable of elite play at times, his 2018 playoffs being one example. The challenge with Kuzy is how infrequently he plays at that level. When kuzy cares he's on the the most talented C out there... he just seems to care and be focused only about 25% of the time, roughly.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Whenever I read this forum, I see comments about Kuzy being an elite passer, but whenever I watch the games all I see him do is skate around in circles before giving away the puck by taking some absurd angle zero percentage shot.

That’s when he’s pretending he’s a shooter lol. When he DOES pass, he’s pretty damn good.

 

[Hivemind]

That was 7 years ago, though. We haven't been getting him at his best.

The pass last night was a decent play, but pretty routine. I feel like half the team can make that play.

There's plenty of other moments between those. I just wanted both something particularly recent (last night) and something that demonstrated peak value/quickly was found on a YouTube search. Kuzy can certainly be frustrating, but pretending he doesn't also make good plays or show off passing skill just isn't accurate.

 

[Cappy76]

To me kuzy is looking too much for the highlight reel low percentage pass attempts that will either be amazing or immediately lead to an odd man break the other way. He needs to get back to skating and at least 50-50 making the safe play. All too often to me he’s just looking for the highest difficulty play to be pretty. Which goes back to what I’ve always said about kuzy in that he’s just a misunderstood artist

 

[Caps8112]

Just as time heals all wounds, and I may never forget the Forsberg trade, at some point GMGM deserves some credit. His first round draft record was pretty damn outstanding. A whole lotta names that had really good NHL careers, and only a handful of complete busts.

A little better luck in the lottery and he may have been able to win some playoffs series

Even if you give credit for the drafting, it's still criminal how he wasted the best years of one of the best players ever for future prospects. He always went with bad goalies and bargain bin dmen and then trading for has been forwards. When he finally tried to make what looked like a trade for a player in his prime it was wasted on erat. His boobery in Washington was so bad and then he gets credit for Vegas even tho it was gifted to him.

 

[Hivemind]

Even if you give credit for the drafting, it's still criminal how he wasted the best years of one of the best players ever for future prospects. He always went with bad goalies and bargain bin dmen and then trading for has been forwards. When he finally tried to make what looked like a trade for a player in his prime it was wasted on erat. His boobery in Washington was so bad and then he gets credit for Vegas even tho it was gifted to him.

Giant disagree. McPhee definitely wasn't the one to take them over the hump, but it's hard to imagine a better environment for a new GM to take over than the one McPhee left for MacLellan. No NMCs/NTCs to worry about. A stable of young players and highly talented prospects. Only one "bad contract" to worry about (Brooks Laich) and multiple absolute sweetheart deals (highlighted by a $6.7M Backstrom and $3.94M Carlson). A good scouting staff and scouting budget (minus their deficiency in Finland). A minor-league system that, to that point, was effective at developing their prospects into NHLers while still competing at both the AHL and ECHL level. McPhee was by no means perfect, but he laid the bedrock for the Cup winning team and set up his successor with an ideal environment to take over.

Calling Vegas a "gift" is 100% revisionist history. His moves were panned at the time, people were roasting him for passing up players like Dumba and Manson/Vatanen. Yet thos very trades netted him Alex Tuch and Shea Theodore, and were clearly huge wins for Vegas. As much as Seattle has turned it around this year (in thanks to some free agent acquisitions in year 2 in the form of Bjorkstrand, Burakovsky, and Sprong combined with the emergence of Beniers and the recent claim of Tolvanen), you can compare the Kraken's year 1 struggles under the same rules to Vegas' instant success. The Golden Knights clearly outdrafted and outperformed Seattle under the same rule set.

 

[DWGie26]

I remember when GMGM was let go and Ted was doing interviews. he brough in BMAC to get his opinion (he was Assistant GM at time), and Mac said, well if it were me i would do a, b, c (whatever that was), and then Ted hired him. That was a great move.

GMBM > GMGM For sure. George did some good things and he did do all of the moves to move out Bondra, Kolzig, etc to get picks and drafted well. But in “today’s” NHL, he couldn’t have handled all of the Caps stuff.

 

[kicksavedave]

Even if you give credit for the drafting, it's still criminal how he wasted the best years of one of the best players ever for future prospects. He always went with bad goalies and bargain bin dmen and then trading for has been forwards. When he finally tried to make what looked like a trade for a player in his prime it was wasted on erat. His boobery in Washington was so bad and then he gets credit for Vegas even tho it was gifted to him.

I only gave him credit for his first round draft record, which is indisputably outstanding. All the other stuff, well it hasn't been covered enough so lets definitely rehash it all.

In fact, his overall draft record even in the later rounds, probably stacks up right near the top vs other GMs during his tenure. See for one's self. Washington Capitals Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Not great news for Dowd but Eller should be a really good 4C. And this is probably good for them in the short term in terms of not having to rotate guys in and out. Have to imagine they get NAK a few games here and there though, he was playing well and Lavi likes him.

 

[Jags]

That said, they’d have to have a lot of faith that McMichael and Lapierre are ready in the next year or two to be full time 2 and 3Cs. Assuming Eller is gone and you trade Kuznetsov this off-season, you’d assume McMichael is probably the 3C next year behind Strome and Backstrom. It’s unrealistic to think that Backstrom will be able to play every game at his age and it’s possible that his hip falls apart at any given moment, so you also need confidence that you have depth for injuries.

Great post, agree wholeheartedly. As far as depth goes, I'd be open to keeping MoJo around. He's been good, we don't have a big youth push coming at wing, and he's a perfect fit to spell some of what we lose in Kuznetsov. He and Protas can pull emergency C duty. If MoJo's price is right, I'd be okay with it. MacLellan might also just pull a bargain C performer out of his ass like he does (big fan of that trick).

I'm also curious what you guys think the market would be for Kuznetsov. He was a steal at $7.8m for a while there, but it's a hefty pricetag for what he's been lately. I'm not opposed to "losing" a trade like this that would generate the kind of turnover we need, but I wouldn't want to eat salary or "pay" to trade him either.

 

[Jags]

Yeesh on that Eller tidbit. Not that I'm opposed, but I wonder where he'd have slotted in, who would have sat, and how long it would have taken for the forum to burn down.

 

[Hivemind]

Yeesh on that Eller tidbit. Not that I'm opposed, but I wonder where he'd have slotted in, who would have sat, and how long it would have taken for the forum to burn down.

Lavi was gonna scratch Gustafsson to fit Eller

 

[Ridley Simon]

Just as time heals all wounds, and I may never forget the Forsberg trade, at some point GMGM deserves some credit. His first round draft record was pretty damn outstanding. A whole lotta names that had really good NHL careers, and only a handful of complete busts.

A little better luck in the lottery and he may have been able to win some playoffs series

MEH

 

[g00n]

Protas recalled