Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 3: Drop the puck!

[Peeri]

We are beating a dead horse here, literally repeating mistakes from last year. I think we need to give Nicky and Wilson few more games to show what they can do before really going hard on them.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Can’t trade Eller until we see 10-15 games from Backstrom and see how is he doing both health wise and play. It takes some games. I can’t explain the Eller love but clearly it is there. Just like the Irwin love. This isn’t isolated to Lavi. All coaches have favorites and “their guy” they lean on. Eller is clearly that guy for Lavi. So you can want Eller traded, but you aren’t going to get it.

That in no way explained the decision and doesn’t make it a good one. My point stands.

 

[DWGie26]

That in no way explained the decision and doesn’t make it a good one. My point stands.

it’s way more logical than your rants of fire and trade everyone. I get you have an opinion and i have no issue with it. But trading Eller tomorrow isn’t logical or a good move for the team. it’s just wasted motion and panic. I tend to follow along more with the NHL season is a long game that includes both win now, set yourself up for playoffs, and building a pipeline for future. I don’t worry about short stretches whether winning or losing.

 

[twabby]

The decision to sit Strome is stupid. But it’s also funny timing that their social media team is trying to get fans to vote Strome into the all star game right now.

 

[Raikkonen]

I dont see any connection between a need to keep Eller for now and scratching Strome. Johansson, Sheary, Milano and Hathaway sit long before Strome.

Kuzy is Ovi's buddy, ok.
Dowd is too valuable.
Oshie needs reps.

NB and Wilson obviously too.

From the rest of the F Strome was the most valuable so far, right?

Buffling.

 

[tycoonheart]

The fire Lavi bandwagon has plenty of seats left fellas!

 

[DWGie26]

Interesting looking at standings and last 10 games in particular. In Eastern conference only two teams with 7 wins in last 10 (Boston and yep, Philly). Boston has most points in last 10 with 16. Then Caps, Rangers, and Flyers with 14. Everyone else lower.

So things aren’t that drastic unless you really focus on recency bias of last 2-3 games. That can easily be rectified.

I suspect the Caps come out fast and strong tonight and get the two points. Top 6 is fine. Bottom 6 is funky.

 

[g00n]

https://www.washingtonhockeynow.com/2023/01/11/washington-capitals-john-carlson-wife-update-report

ear not completely severed despite recent reports

 

[HecticGlow]

The only explanation I’ve got for scratching Strome is they’re planning to scratch everyone but Ovi for a couple of games while healthy. But that would be an awful way to try to win games for the next few months.

Backstrom, Wilson and Oshie can PK in place of Eller, so that didn’t explain it.

Strome is third on the team in points. He’s been okay in the dot. He plays well in the top-6. It’s just an obviously bad decision.

 

[Jags]

Struggling coming out of the gate with lots of new faces is to be expected. Creating a struggle unnecessarily out of thin air just to tinker is something else entirely. Those guys coming back into the lineup could have plugged in to the one shaky line we had without disturbing anything else, then integrated more as they found their legs.

I don't think that's a controversial thing to say, and certainly not worth the vitriol.

 

[HTFN]

Struggling coming out of the gate with lots of new faces is to be expected. Creating a struggle unnecessarily out of thin air just to tinker is something else entirely. Those guys coming back into the lineup could have plugged in to the one shaky line we had without disturbing anything else, then integrated more as they found their legs.

I don't think that's a controversial thing to say, and certainly not worth the vitriol.

You'd have to be so committed to waging a different personal war to even bother arguing a point that basic and obvious.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

it’s way more logical than your rants of fire and trade everyone. I get you have an opinion and i have no issue with it. But trading Eller tomorrow isn’t logical or a good move for the team. it’s just wasted motion and panic. I tend to follow along more with the NHL season is a long game that includes both win now, set yourself up for playoffs, and building a pipeline for future. I don’t worry about short stretches whether winning or losing.

Show me the post where I said to fire Lavi. I’ll wait.

And the only player I suggested trading is Eller. Hyperbole isn’t a good way to debate.

 

[g00n]

The only explanation I’ve got for scratching Strome is they’re planning to scratch everyone but Ovi for a couple of games while healthy. But that would be an awful way to try to win games for the next few months.

Backstrom, Wilson and Oshie can PK in place of Eller, so that didn’t explain it.

Strome is third on the team in points. He’s been okay in the dot. He plays well in the top-6. It’s just an obviously bad decision.

Backstrom and Wilson are not ready for full PK duty yet, per Lavi

monumental sports network

www.nbcsports.com

Eller is their best player at faceoffs and is very good on the PK.

This is probably a big reason why Eller is playing right now and Strome isn't. When Wilson is ready you may see a switch.

You'd have to be so committed to waging a different personal war to even bother arguing a point that basic and obvious.

Putting all your weakest players on the same line when they need ice time and can't be hidden....what could go wrong?

 

[Jags]

Putting all your weakest players on the same line when they need ice time and can't be hidden....what could go wrong?

Definitely less than making all of your lines weak. Better to spread that problem all over the lineup, let it weigh everything down?

 

[HTFN]

Backstrom and Wilson are not ready for full PK duty yet, per Lavi

monumental sports network

www.nbcsports.com

View attachment 635130
View attachment 635129

Eller is their best player at faceoffs and is very good on the PK.

This is probably a big reason why Eller is playing right now and Strome isn't. When Wilson is ready you may see a switch.
View attachment 635131



Putting all your weakest players on the same line when they need ice time and can't be hidden....what could go wrong?

If you really believe they're all the weakest then they belong on a sheltered 4th line, so there's that.

There's also the question "why pipe them everywhere in your lineup all at once and water the whole thing down?" Maybe a rotation between the two injured players is more desirable than benching your best center and slowing down your best goal scorer?

And then, of course, there's the "what happened to earning your ice time and why is their 'need' so much greater than earlier in the season when it was argued other players might need and benefit from reps?"

 

[g00n]

Definitely less than making all of your lines weak. Better to spread that problem all over the lineup, let it weigh everything down?

So if the other team knows you have line full of guys who are vulnerable and you're still going to shift them for 13-15min per game, what do you think the opposing coach will do?

If you put that line out for a hypothetical 20-30 shifts that's 20-30 chances for the other team to line match their top scorers or take advantage of some other very favorable matchup. How many high quality scoring chances, shots, and goals is that likely to cost you? Compare that much exposure to the effect of one shielded player on 3 of the 4 lines, with 2 other guys there to pick up the slack...

If you really believe they're all the weakest then they belong on a sheltered 4th line, so there's that.

There's also the question "why pipe them everywhere in your lineup all at once and water the whole thing down?" Maybe a rotation between the two injured players is more desirable than benching your best center and slowing down your best goal scorer?

And then, of course, there's the "what happened to earning your ice time and why is their 'need' so much greater than earlier in the season when it was argued other players might need and benefit from reps?"

This has already been discussed. They need ice time and reps.

Do you think Wilson, Backstrom, and Oshie should've lost their jobs simply due to injury?

 

[Empty Goal Net]

One can always hope that mgmt believes that Lars cannot be scratched because their goal is to showcase his penalty killing and faceoff prowess to entice potential trading partners into a team-beneficial deal (and to hope they don't notice much of the remainder of his game).

 

[shtorm2005]

 

[Empty Goal Net]

And the fact that they're home tonight (and only two additional times before mid-February) means that a coach who chooses to take advantage of last change can ice a weaker line against the opponent's weakest line. If the process involves tinkering without taking on excessive risks, then doing so during one of only three home matches over the next 30 days would ideally happen tonight.

 

[HTFN]

So if the other team knows you have line full of guys who are vulnerable and you're still going to shift them for 13-15min per game, what do you think the opposing coach will do?

If you put that line out for a hypothetical 20-30 shifts that's 20-30 chances for the other team to line match their top scorers or take advantage of some other very favorable matchup. How many high quality scoring chances, shots, and goals is that likely to cost you? Compare that much exposure to the effect of one shielded player on 3 of the 4 lines, with 2 other guys there to pick up the slack...



This has already been discussed. They need ice time and reps.

Do you think Wilson, Backstrom, and Oshie should've lost their jobs simply due to injury?

That's not how you play to win, and it's not how you test anything. Two other guys constantly picking up injured slack is also how you fool yourself into thinking they're doing better than they are because you can't see them getting caved in.

I think the guy coming back from a procedure that has almost no NHL success at all shouldn't just have his minutes chucked back at him, no. I think if you come back and you can't be what you were, there's no need to pretend you are and the coaches can find a way for you to be deployed.

Shifting them 13-15 (presumably even strength) minutes per game is something you decided, not me, and it's not something I'm actually that keen on so this whole scenario is bunk.

It's also the exact opposite of the way you approached McMichael needing ice time, so really I guess I have to ask why you think the guy on the resurfaced hip has a more projectable and safe NHL prognosis than their recent first round pick as far as needing reps to be something other than a liability, and how long you'd let that experiment go when you didn't seem to want to give McMichael a game here and there because he hadn't "earned it".

Shit's garbage.

And the fact that they're home tonight (and only two additional times before mid-February) means that a coach who chooses to take advantage of last change can ice a weaker line against the opponent's weakest line. If the process involves tinkering without taking on excessive risks, then doing so during one of only three home matches over the next 30 days would ideally happen tonight.

ding ding ding.

this is the time to shelter a sheltered line

 

[g00n]

That's not how you play to win, and it's not how you test anything. Two other guys constantly picking up injured slack is also how you fool yourself into thinking they're doing better than they are because you can't see them getting caved in.

I think the guy coming back from a procedure that has almost no NHL success at all shouldn't just have his minutes chucked back at him, no. I think if you come back and you can't be what you were, there's no need to pretend you are and the coaches can find a way for you to be deployed.

Shifting them 13-15 (presumably even strength) minutes per game is something you decided, not me, and it's not something I'm actually that keen on so this whole scenario is bunk.

It's also the exact opposite of the way you approached McMichael needing ice time, so really I guess I have to ask why you think the guy on the resurfaced hip has a more projectable and safe NHL prognosis than their recent first round pick as far as needing reps to be something other than a liability, and how long you'd let that experiment go when you didn't seem to want to give McMichael a game here and there because he hadn't "earned it".

Shit's garbage.


ding ding ding.

this is the time to shelter a sheltered line

Backstrom played 14 and 16 1/2 min his first 2 games back and he's typically a workhorse, so they're trying to get him up to speed. I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass.

They're not 'testing' they're getting guys back up to speed. You do that by pacing them with other players who are already at the desired level. That won't happen nearly as effectively if you put them all on the same line. As it is there's a chance NB and TW will be on the same line which is a risk in and of itself.

If you think CMM is the same as the other 3 guys then we're done talking about this.

 

[Jags]

If you put that line out for a hypothetical 20-30 shifts that's 20-30 chances for the other team to line match their top scorers or take advantage of some other very favorable matchup. How many high quality scoring chances, shots, and goals is that likely to cost you?

All fair points, but doesn't that assume that Wilson and Backstrom are so out of sorts that they'd be that big a liability? They're definitely not themselves yet, but are they so bad that they'd bleed chances against so dramatically? I'd argue that it wouldn't be that bad, that they could be lined up with someone to help mitigate what weaknesses there were, that their first game back was a home game with last change, and so on.

Is there no room for another school of thought on this? I agree that the criticisms are maybe too plentiful, but a lot of them look pretty reasonable to me...

 

[g00n]

All fair points, but doesn't that assume that Wilson and Backstrom are so out of sorts that they'd be that big a liability? They're definitely not themselves yet, but are they so bad that they'd bleed chances against so dramatically? I'd argue that it wouldn't be that bad, that they could be lined up with someone to help mitigate what weaknesses there were, that their first game back was a home game with last change, and so on.

Is there no room for another school of thought on this? I agree that the criticisms are maybe too plentiful, but a lot of them look pretty reasonable to me...

It's not my concern or in my control regarding other schools of thought. There's a mob mentality here as it is.

Regarding their game shape it's not a controversial subject. Players coming back from significant injury and surgery can take a while to get into game form. That's why we have training camps, preseason, and slow starts even when healthy. And Lavi already said these guys need some game time (per the link I posted earlier).

If people enjoy bitching about every little thing all the time maybe that's just what gets them off. Complaining is literally the easiest thing in the world. I don't have to respect that.

 

[marcel snapshot]

Avalanche in need of a 2C or 3C. They currently have Evan Rodrigues, Andrew Cogliano, and Alex Newhook as their other centers besides MacKinnon. Seems like any of our 5 centers would be an improvement over those guys..

 

[HTFN]

It's not my concern or in my control regarding other schools of thought. There's a mob mentality here as it is.

Regarding their game shape it's not a controversial subject. Players coming back from significant injury and surgery can take a while to get into game form. That's why we have training camps, preseason, and slow starts even when healthy. And Lavi already said these guys need some game time (per the link I posted earlier).

If people enjoy bitching about every little thing all the time maybe that's just what gets them off. Complaining is literally the easiest thing in the world. I don't have to respect that.

This is a you thing and it's f***ing ridiculous. Keep ignoring well structured and rational disagreements because you're "tired of complaining", I don't know. Anointing yourself Peter Laviolette's personal acolyte is going to obviously create a "mob mentality" when he's doing things that don't make sense like benching Strome instead of Kuznetsov.

You've ignored some long and rational posts to pick on one section and then call the whole thing whining and you wonder why there's friction.