Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 Off-Season Pt. 2

[895]

So you judged a trade that's too soon to judge??

This comment doesn't even make sense.

 

[Gopack76]

Research? Have you done any?

97 when McPhee took over - Nobody past round 2 pick 35 played an NHL game (5 other picks didn't play a single NHL game)
98 - Krys Barch round 4 played 381 NHL games but did nothing (5 picks played 0 NHL games 4 others played a combined 40 NHL games)
99 - Nolan Yonkman played 76 NHL games as a 2nd round pick but was probably an NHLer only because of our weak D
00 - Pettinger as a early 2nd rounder played 422 NHL games (3picks after the 2nd round played 0NHL games)
01 - Oduya in the 7th round 850 games (other 8 picks after round 2 played 0)
02 - Picks from rounds 2-9 (10 players) played a combined 0 NHL games
03 - 5 picks after round 1 (1 NHL game combined)
04 - 8 picks after round 2 Lepisto played 176 games other 7 (combined 78)
05 - 7 picks including 2 1st rounders with a grand total of 183 NHL games
06 - 6 picks outside of round 2 - Perreault 683 NHL games - other 5 picks 3 total games
07 - 9 picks outside of round 1 (0 NHL games)
08 - 6 picks outside of round 2 - Holtby in round 4 other 5 picks 7 NHL games
09 - Eakin in round 3 other 4 picks outside of round 2 10 NHL games
10 - Grubauer in round 4 - Other 3 picks outside of 1st round 26 NHL games
11 - 4 picks 1 NHL player Travis Boyd 124 games
12 - Stephenson, Carrick, Djoos ok decent picks (not world beaters or studs by any means) other 5 picks outside of round 1 12 NHL games
13 - 3 picks outside of round 2 12 NHL games


Far cry from knocking it out of the park as you're claiming.

Wait, so you are excluding round 1 and in some cases round 2??LOL Good gracious, that's pathetic. You think late first round picks are guarantee difference makers?

Take 2006. He drafted Backstrom, Varly, Neuvy and Perreault. Even if you exclude a top-5 picks since you think they are automatic, that's still a great draft of Varly, Neuvy and Perreault.
2008 he gets Carlson and Holtby with number 27 and 93.
2009: MoJo, Orlov, Eakin with picks 24, 55, 85.

The list goes on. He did a great job drafting. He had homerun picks in the late first round and in later rounds.

No one, in any sport, is going to get a high percentage right when they draft, but in 6 drafts since BM has been in charge, those players have collectively played about 150 NHL games. And the one with the majority of those games isn't a Capital anymore.

 

[g00n]

Wait, so you are excluding round 1 and in some cases round 2??LOL Good gracious, that's pathetic. You think late first round picks are guarantee difference makers?

Take 2006. He drafted Backstrom, Varly, Neuvy and Perreault. Even if you exclude a top-5 picks since you think they are automatic, that's still a great draft of Varly, Neuvy and Perreault.
2008 he gets Carlson and Holtby with number 27 and 93.
2009: MoJo, Orlov, Eakin with picks 24, 55, 85.

The list goes on. He did a great job drafting. He had homerun picks in the late first round and in later rounds.

No one, in any sport, is going to get a high percentage right when they draft, but in 6 drafts since BM has been in charge, those players have collectively played about 150 NHL games. And the one with the majority of those games isn't a Capital anymore.

LOL look at this revisionism and cherrypicking.

How McPhee lost his job

2C and solid, top 4 defensemen were always McPhee's achilles heel. GMBM addressed needs like that immediately.

 

[Gopack76]

Actually, I'm wrong about the timeframe and BM gets full credit for a solid draft in 2014 getting Vrana and Vitek. Vrana is gonna be a good player for a long time. Vitek, maybe will be a solid backup for a number of years.

So he has been here for 7 drafts already and this will be his 8th. But the point remains. It's been very little since 2015. Not having more help from 2015-2018 by now is a major failure to supplement a team with high salary players.

 

[Coldplay619]

It’s funny that Vegas are also weak down the middle.

 

[g00n]

Wait, so you are excluding round 1 and in some cases round 2??LOL Good gracious, that's pathetic. You think late first round picks are guarantee difference makers?

Take 2006. He drafted Backstrom, Varly, Neuvy and Perreault. Even if you exclude a top-5 picks since you think they are automatic, that's still a great draft of Varly, Neuvy and Perreault.
2008 he gets Carlson and Holtby with number 27 and 93.
2009: MoJo, Orlov, Eakin with picks 24, 55, 85.

The list goes on. He did a great job drafting. He had homerun picks in the late first round and in later rounds.

No one, in any sport, is going to get a high percentage right when they draft, but in 6 drafts since BM has been in charge, those players have collectively played about 150 NHL games. And the one with the majority of those games isn't a Capital anymore.

You mean great round 1 picks like Pokulok?

Notice how when you mention 2008 you ignore the Rd1 pick that year (Gustafsson).

McPhee himself admitted his early drafting was shit, and it wasn't until he let his staff take greater control that their fortunes improved.

We are now into the summer lull period where people are pining for a GM who failed to deliver a Cup to any team, including our team for 17 years despite some of the best talent in the world. LOL

 

[Gopack76]

LOL look at this revisionism and cherrypicking.

How McPhee lost his job

View attachment 455223

2C and solid, top 4 defensemen were always McPhee's achilles heel. GMBM addressed needs like that immediately.

GMBM addressed the 2C by a GMGM draft pick finally coming to the NHL. Nice try.

Mike Green was a high draft pick? 29th in the first round is considered that as if it's can't miss?

No one is defending GM saying he shouldn't have been fired. He earned his firing trading Flip and having some bad signings, but the idea that he didn't draft well is laughably dumb.

 

[Cappy76]

Wait, so you are excluding round 1 and in some cases round 2??LOL Good gracious, that's pathetic. You think late first round picks are guarantee difference makers?

Take 2006. He drafted Backstrom, Varly, Neuvy and Perreault. Even if you exclude a top-5 picks since you think they are automatic, that's still a great draft of Varly, Neuvy and Perreault.
2008 he gets Carlson and Holtby with number 27 and 93.
2009: MoJo, Orlov, Eakin with picks 24, 55, 85.

The list goes on. He did a great job drafting. He had homerun picks in the late first round and in later rounds.

No one, in any sport, is going to get a high percentage right when they draft, but in 6 drafts since BM has been in charge, those players have collectively played about 150 NHL games. And the one with the majority of those games isn't a Capital anymore.

Yes I excluded 1st completely because those are early picks - Your post that I quoted and responded to you said GMGM hit on later picks - Late 1st rounders are expected to be at the very least roster players. What's pathetic is your attempt to now sidestep that comment.

 

[Langway]

SERAVALLI: Trade Targets: Will Seth Jones be the first to move? - Daily Faceoff

13. Ryan Reaves
Right Wing, Vegas Golden Knights
Age: 34
Contract: 1 year remaining at $1.75 million
Scoop: If you have a Tom Wilson problem, Reaves is your solution. The belief is the Rangers have been interested in the presence Reaves brings to the ice. After starring on the Strip for parts of the last four seasons, moving Reaves would provide the Golden Knights with a little more salary cap flexibility, as well.

I don't have a Tom Wilson problem...YOU HAVE A TOM WILSON PROBLEM!

 

[g00n]

GMBM addressed the 2C by a GMGM draft pick finally coming to the NHL. Nice try.

Mike Green was a high draft pick? 29th in the first round is considered that as if it's can't miss?

No one is defending GM saying he shouldn't have been fired. He earned his firing trading Flip and having some bad signings, but the idea that he didn't draft well is laughably dumb.

Pay attention. I said "like that". This was stated many times....McPhee failed to address needs, GMBM has jumped on them immediately. The defense was the main need he filled.

I wasn't talking about GMBM filling the 2c, I was talking about how McPhee consistently failed at it. But needs LIKE THAT don't go unfilled long with GMBM. Getting Oshie filled a similar need. Has he sucked?

Again, this has not been a rebuilding team that's had plenty of room for draft picks to climb the ladder or start right away. McPhee went through several periods like that. Comparing his 17 years of that stuff to GMBM's relatively short and entirely different tenure is either foolishly short-sighted or disingenuous.

 

[crazy8888]

I heard he was signing with the Penguins

Yes its done. Will be announced July 28

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Mantha is twice the player?? LOLOLOL
Be more of a GMBM bootlicker.

Mantha didn't do anything for the Caps and it cost the Caps a lot of draft capital. But hey, it's awesome having a bunch of RW players and only one legitimate LW player once Ovechkin re-signs.

1. Vrana and Mantha are statistically pretty much the same player. Mantha has 202 pts in 316 GP, Vrana 168 pts in 295 GP (Mantha clearly has a higher PPG, but what the heck I'm feeling generous). I assume you're referencing the small sample size of post trade, Vrana 11pts in 11 GP, Mantha 8 pts in 14 GP? I'm curious if you watched those games, Vrana was prolific, but he also was classically absent in the 200ft game. I don't think anyone ever questioned his ability to garner points in the regular season, that's not what the issue was.


2. The 2nd round pick was for the term on Mantha's contract. Vrana is an RFA, he is going to cost more than $5.7 AAV which is the cost of Mantha until 2024. You were just dragging GMBM for cap management but here he flips an expiring contract we wouldn't be able to afford for at worst a comparable player with term and cheap deal. You can't be pleased.


3. The first was to take the Panik contract. I cannot emphasize enough how this contract only became bloated because of the flat cap. In a typical 2 year growth period you probably can flip this contract for 3rd round pick, but because of the flat cap the space is at a premium. Detroit themselves had to retain 50% when they shipped Panik to NYI. Panik was a miss of a signing, but it also was a fair gamble for a bottom six winger. By and large those deals have worked out for us.



All GM's miss, there isn't a GM in the league who isn't going to miss on a contract, the key is to minimize the damage. When GMBM misses it's pretty much just relegated to bottom six contracts that in a normal time would be easy to move. He has not written any contracts that are albatross's yet. In fact, curious factoid for the board here I just discovered


27 different teams (many multiple times over) have bought out contracts since the Caps last did it (Schultz 2013), that means every contract the Caps have signed in that time they've either been able to flip or has been true in value, that's exceptional.

Buyout History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Cappy76]

Actually, I'm wrong about the timeframe and BM gets full credit for a solid draft in 2014 getting Vrana and Vitek. Vrana is gonna be a good player for a long time. Vitek, maybe will be a solid backup for a number of years.

So he has been here for 7 drafts already and this will be his 8th. But the point remains. It's been very little since 2015. Not having more help from 2015-2018 by now is a major failure to supplement a team with high salary players.

If you want to continue to talk about late 1st ( which wasn't what was initially said) then you're looking at:

2014 - Vrana at 13
15' - Sammy at 22
16' - Lucas Johansen at 28
17' - No pick until round 4
18' - Alexeyev at 31
19' - McMichael at 25
20' - Lapierre at 22

So you're looking at 6 drafts 1st rounders and saying that none of those with the exception of Vrana are going to be players? You're looking at 21 year old Alexeyev who is trending nicely, 20 year old McMichael just blew up last 2 years, and 19 year old Lapierre who seems to be on a nice track as well. These are the 1st rounders that GMBM drafted and you're saying none of them are going to pan out. They've not been given a roster spot because they're not a team in a place to hand over a roster spot to a young completely unpolished rookie like other teams are. You can't be that dense to think that you comparing GMGM and GMBM and the drafting holds water.

 

[tenken00]

I heard he was signing with the Penguins

Haha, jokes on you! It's actually the Chelyabinsk Penguins.

 

[Hivemind]

Today was a rare day in the office, as opposed to teleworking. Just realized I still have my 2019-20 Capitals season schedule hanging at my desk.

 

[txpd]

Half of the guys you listed did a pretty good job doing just that in our Cup run.

Who? That duty largely fell to Niskanen and Orpik. Specifically if you harrassed Holtby Orpik was going to hurt you. But ok. If/when this becomes an issue let not suddenly dump massive amounts of hate on Samsonov for getting burned after leaving rebounds around

 

[IafrateOvie34]

GMBM addressed the 2C by a GMGM draft pick finally coming to the NHL. Nice try.

Mike Green was a high draft pick? 29th in the first round is considered that as if it's can't miss?

No one is defending GM saying he shouldn't have been fired. He earned his firing trading Flip and having some bad signings, but the idea that he didn't draft well is laughably dumb.

He was listed as a highly skilled PP QB with questionable defensive skills on a horrible WHL team. He was worth the risk of taking that late considering he carried the WHL team and his speed. It's a shame his defensive game never happened then of course him not protecting himself during his career from injuries. If I remember he was expected to go much higher than a 29th, however even then people like Bobby Mac were calling him out.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Today was a rare day in the office, as opposed to teleworking. Just realized I still have my 2019-20 Capitals season schedule hanging at my desk.

I don't have a Caps calendar in my home office, but I realized I had a North American mammal, outdoor calendar from 2017-18 up, lol.

 

[txpd]

If you want to continue to talk about late 1st ( which wasn't what was initially said) then you're looking at:

2014 - Vrana at 13
15' - Sammy at 22
16' - Lucas Johansen at 28
17' - No pick until round 4
18' - Alexeyev at 31
19' - McMichael at 25
20' - Lapierre at 22

So you're looking at 6 drafts 1st rounders and saying that none of those with the exception of Vrana are going to be players? You're looking at 21 year old Alexeyev who is trending nicely, 20 year old McMichael just blew up last 2 years, and 19 year old Lapierre who seems to be on a nice track as well. These are the 1st rounders that GMBM drafted and you're saying none of them are going to pan out. They've not been given a roster spot because they're not a team in a place to hand over a roster spot to a young completely unpolished rookie like other teams are. You can't be that dense to think that you comparing GMGM and GMBM and the drafting holds water.

I am careful about assigning much value to the general manager for the Capitals drafting. By all accounts Mahoney calls the shots there and has for a long time.

 

[Cappy76]

I am careful about assigning much value to the general manager for the Capitals drafting. By all accounts Mahoney calls the shots there and has for a long time.

I agree - our scouting department does much of the work. I was simply responding to the previous post about how GMGM is such a stud late 1st round drafter compared to GMBM

 

[txpd]

He was listed as a highly skilled PP QB with questionable defensive skills on a horrible WHL team. He was worth the risk of taking that late considering he carried the WHL team and his speed. It's a shame his defensive game never happened then of course him not protecting himself during his career from injuries. If I remember he was expected to go much higher than a 29th, however even then people like Bobby Mac were calling him out.

My recollection is that Green's junior team was epically bad. The fear was that because his team was always losing he didnt even play in high leverage regular season games. That is why he fell in the draft. You can make a case that his high leverage play was questionable. At the same time nobody thought the upside was that high.

Meanwhile Kuznetsov fell in the draft because many were afraid he wasnt that interested in playing in the NHL even with his obvious level of ability. You can make a case that fear has appeared in Kuzy doesn't care.

 

[txpd]

I agree - our scouting department does much of the work. I was simply responding to the previous post about how GMGM is such a stud late 1st round drafter compared to GMBM

The team is a stud. McPhee deserves credit for building that scouting department. Leonsis didnt believe in spending money there. Scouting for the Caps was an entry level job. As soon as a guy got some experience, he was gone to a team willing to pay. McPhee changed that model and started spending real budget to keep his scouting team and staff together as they matured.

The only think McPhee failed at was winning the cup. Considering how many rebuilds fail, that he so quickly built what amounts to the best team in the league in the regular has to be a source of success.

He gets the credit for hearing Mahoney saying the Caps needed another first round pick so they could grab John Carlson. That wasn't a set draft pick. McPhee had to agree that it was worth making a trade to get that player. It was a home run

 

[Todd Lazarchick]

Actually, I'm wrong about the timeframe and BM gets full credit for a solid draft in 2014 getting Vrana and Vitek. Vrana is gonna be a good player for a long time. Vitek, maybe will be a solid backup for a number of years.

So he has been here for 7 drafts already and this will be his 8th. But the point remains. It's been very little since 2015. Not having more help from 2015-2018 by now is a major failure to supplement a team with high salary players.

Jakub is that you?

 

[Todd Lazarchick]

This comment doesn't even make sense.

He claimed it's too soon to pass judgement on the Vrana/Mantha trade but also called it a failure.

 

[g00n]

Also iirc Semin, Vrana, Forsberg, and Kuzy all essentially fell into our laps by dropping in the draft for various reasons.