Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 Off-Season Pt. 2

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Oshie said the exact opposite. Unless you think he was deliberately saying the exact opposite of what he means.

Oshie always says and does the right thing. He would never call out a teammate in the media. He would never be caught like Ov was screaming at a teammate for a mistake.

I think the best way to approach this is to acknowledge that Kuzy may have damaged his relationship with his teammates and that if he has they may or may not have forgiven it.

Its impossible to know. Its my take that if the players are ok with him, he is staying and if they are not, he is going.
 
I think everyone should brace themselves for losing a Kuznetsov deal at face value. There’s almost no trade out there I see as remotely realistic or possible that has the Caps coming out on top as a better team. The team will be worse and less creative offensively without 92.
I think the best case would be a Ryan Johansen swap, esp. if NSH retains a bit of salary to either even it out or save them a little. It's not without risk but it's hard to see many sensible swaps. Even that move may require patience. Any winning trade at this stage very likely requires patience and running the risk of him still being on the team next season. If their top priority is losing that cap hit ASAP then, sure, they're going to lose it. They're going to lose it because the market isn't hot most likely and the number of teams willing to take that on at this point in the off-season has to be slim.

While losing his cap hit would give them further clarity on their cap situation/flexibility they've got other issues to sort out. Seattle's selection will help determine that further, as will whether Kempny can be moved or not. Plus what Samsonov ends up coming in at. Are they prepared to exceed the cap in the off-season in order to bide their time for the best return on Kuznetsov? If not they probably are going to lose any trade (similar to past cap-related trades). They may need to wait out expansion, Eichel and free agency in order to get the best return and even then it may not happen. Certainly if they lose a trade it's because they figured it was still better than no trade at all.
 
I think the best case would be a Ryan Johansen swap, esp. if NSH retains a bit of salary to either even it out or save them a little. It's not without risk but it's hard to see many sensible swaps. Even that move may require patience. Any winning trade at this stage very likely requires patience and running the risk of him still being on the team next season. If their top priority is losing that cap hit ASAP then, sure, they're going to lose it. They're going to lose it because the market isn't hot most likely and the number of teams willing to take that on at this point in the off-season has to be slim.

While losing his cap hit would give them further clarity on their cap situation/flexibility they've got other issues to sort out. Seattle's selection will help determine that further, as will whether Kempny can be moved or not. Plus what Samsonov ends up coming in at. Are they prepared to exceed the cap in the off-season in order to bide their time for the best return on Kuznetsov? If not they probably are going to lose any trade (similar to past cap-related trades). They may need to wait out expansion, Eichel and free agency in order to get the best return and even then it may not happen. Certainly if they lose a trade it's because they figured it was still better than no trade at all.
I've never really liked Johansen as a player but yeah, I could see that as a likely scenario. I've thought for a while it could be Monahan given Calgary's need to reset their core a bit but it's doubtful Kuznetsov would waive to go there. I'd prefer Johansen to Duchene -- it's rumored that Duchene won't be protected in the upcoming ED so he's almost certainly available -- but I would not be excited about that trade. And you have to figure Lavi would be the driving force behind bringing Johansen in (or not) given their Nashville connection.

They have to decide if moving Kuznetsov is one of the domino pieces or if he's the only domino piece. If they trade him and use the cap space and assets elsewhere then they have a chance of coming out ahead but if they trade him as a swap they almost certainly lose.

Kuznetsov could also and probably will make it impossible to get anywhere near maximum value via the way he submits his NTC list to reduce the likelihood of getting traded. He's got 15 teams but if I'm his agent I'm printing off a list of teams at or nearly at the cap or teams with no need for a center and he could also leave off teams he'd never get traded to which essentially expands his protection list. I can't imagine Mac would ever trade him to a division rival so scratch off eight teams there, which mean you've got 23 teams out of the mix (if he left all eight off his 15-team NTC list) before even considering which remaining teams have the dollars and need to take a gamble on him.

Maybe after Eichel gets traded a team that missed out gets desperate or maybe even Buffalo decides to turn around and flip lesser assets for Kuznetsov to soften the blow of losing him but Kuznetsov f***ed the team in more ways than one this past season.
 
I've never really liked Johansen as a player but yeah, I could see that as a likely scenario. I've thought for a while it could be Monahan given Calgary's need to reset their core a bit but it's doubtful Kuznetsov would waive to go there. I'd prefer Johansen to Duchene -- it's rumored that Duchene won't be protected in the upcoming ED so he's almost certainly available -- but I would not be excited about that trade. And you have to figure Lavi would be the driving force behind bringing Johansen in (or not) given their Nashville connection.

They have to decide if moving Kuznetsov is one of the domino pieces or if he's the only domino piece. If they trade him and use the cap space and assets elsewhere then they have a chance of coming out ahead but if they trade him as a swap they almost certainly lose.

Kuznetsov could also and probably will make it impossible to get anywhere near maximum value via the way he submits his NTC list to reduce the likelihood of getting traded. He's got 15 teams but if I'm his agent I'm printing off a list of teams at or nearly at the cap or teams with no need for a center and he could also leave off teams he'd never get traded to which essentially expands his protection list. I can't imagine Mac would ever trade him to a division rival so scratch off eight teams there, which mean you've got 23 teams out of the mix (if he left all eight off his 15-team NTC list) before even considering which remaining teams have the dollars and need to take a gamble on him.

Maybe after Eichel gets traded a team that missed out gets desperate or maybe even Buffalo decides to turn around and flip lesser assets for Kuznetsov to soften the blow of losing him but Kuznetsov f***ed the team in more ways than one this past season.

Completely agree with the bolded. Kuznetsov should only be traded if a legitimate upgrade is brought in this offseason, and I can't see that happening in a swap for Kuznetsov alone. Ryan Johansen, for instance, is a huge downgrade over Kuznetsov. It'd be a disaster of a trade, even with close to full retention on Nashville's part which seems doubtful. However if the Capitals are able to trade Kuznetsov for futures and gain $7.8 million in cap space, and aren't afraid to trade blue-chips, they could improve the 1C position in a substantial way and return the team to a contender status in the final years of Ovechkin's career in DC.

I'd hope MacLellan is open to trading him in-division if the best value is there. If Kuznetsov is such damaged goods then wouldn't you want to trade him in-division as a sort of Trojan Horse? Why be afraid of Kuznetsov playing well against Washington? If he really is that good and impactful, then why not just keep him?

Everyone seems to think this is going to be one of the busiest offseasons in a while, so I hope that MacLellan isn't just interested in tinkering around the edges or bringing in low-upside options. Especially with how competitive the Metro division is shaping up to be next season.
 
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You have to stop with this nonsense, you have been bringing this crap up for a long time with literally zero proof. You sound like flat-earther at this point.

No. I am far from the only one that thinks its possible the locker room is broken on the subject of Kuznetsov. When someone says "the only way they should trade him is..." and I offer my flat earth theory, you can easily just answer it. Instead of dancing around it with an attack. I CLEARLY have said that the locker room is unknown to me. Ive said that I dont think Kuzy gets traded EXCEPT in this one scenario that I only label as possible. I never claim to know anything specific. Instead of acknowledging that its possible, you just insult me. Good. I hope that was fun. Lets move on.
 
This would mean that if the players dont want Kuznetsov back, you would force him into the room. Yes?

Going along with this hypothetical that the locker room wants him gone, which has no basis in fact, I suppose it depends on how much their performance is affected with Kuznetsov in the locker room vs. traded for Gritty McHeart. And also the difference in performance between Evgeny Kuznetsov and Gritty McHeart.

If the team wants him gone but it doesn’t actually make them play better to an extent that it makes up for the difference in performance between Evgeny Kuznetsov and Gritty McHeart, then I’d say they should keep Evgeny Kuznetsov and tell the locker room to deal with it.

If, on the other hand, the rest of the players perform better without Kuznetsov to such an extent that the reduction of performance from Evgeny Kuznetsov to Gritty McHeart is still worth it, then I’d go with Gritty McHeart.

I certainly wouldn’t care about hurting feelings though, since these are well-compensated athletes who should be able to deal with people they don’t necessarily like, especially if there is no better option to make the team better. Coddling the locker room in this case would certainly contribute to a country club atmosphere, rather than trying to build a champion.
 
Man 10 pages of twabby mopping the floor with you all, for the most part.

The twisting of his words (like the hyperbolic non take of his against Backstrom) and the sure fire assumptions to make points (like knowing exactly what Kuz did to contract covid again, when we aren't privy to the exact specifics) I just felt 2nd hand embarrassment for the pathetic takes; especially when it seemed to be the majority involved in the discussion.

Glad you're entertained. Too bad this is mostly bullshit.
 
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We are going to lose any Kuznetsov trade, without a doubt. That's why i would be surprised to see him traded.

There are two scenarios where he gets traded. First is if the players have told that they want him gone. Nothing suggests that but in that case GMBM would have no choice but to do so.

Second is if he can find a replacement 1C. In that case they'd propably dump Kuznetsov somewhere for next to nothing but have another deal in place to acquire a replacement. This way we would likely lose one of our top prospects too or acquire a boat anchor contract like Johansen.

Otherwise i don't think we see him traded. The likeliest scenario is that he stays because dumping him is an incredibly risky business for the GM. If he gets dumped and they don't replace him and he bounces back elsewhere that’s game set and match and a boot for the GM. Nobody cares if the fans wanted him gone because the fans don't have very good memories in a situation like that. All they see is that a GM made a terrible trade and want him gone.
 
You are sure that his attitude and actions and inconsistencies haven't created a broken relationship with his teammates? I think that is exactly what would be in play if Kuzy is in fact traded. Ov and the leadership group have said they dont want him back.

In that case I would think you wouldn't be suggesting that they jam him back in their anyway
Do you have a quote?
 
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You were completely out of your element, along with others, in these last 10 pages trying to seemingly, but desperately, catch this poster in a logical mishap. It most definitely was entertaining

LOL Twabby was being effortlessly skulldragged over his inconsistencies and fallacies, most of which come from the need to justify various narratives about X or Y stat or theory, even in the face of contradictory evidence. Then the "I never said" backpedaling and revisionist dance of semantics begins in order to save face and preserve the illusion of "just stating facts" when convenient, or "never said anything other than my opinion" dodge when cornered.

Some people are easily hypnotized by weasel words and goalpost-moving so I can see why you might hold the delusional beliefs you do.
 
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LOL Twabby was being effortlessly skulldragged over his inconsistencies and fallacies, most of which come from the need to justify various narratives about X or Y stat or theory, even in the face of contradictory evidence. Then the "I never said" backpedaling and revisionist dance of semantics begins in order to save face and preserve the illusion of "just stating facts" when convenient, or "never said anything other than my opinion" dodge when cornered.

Some people are easily hypnotized by weasel words and goalpost-moving so I can see why you might hold the delusional beliefs you do.
How very ironic; doubly so, as you are the very poster claiming to be privy to knowledge you can't be privy to, and lambasting another over it, for not running with your hyperbolic reasoning.

Do you know how he got COVID-19 for a second time?

This doesn't say how he got COVID-19 again. Just that he got COVID-19 again, which I already knew.
Ok fine. Use some common sense then.

again,
tenor.gif
 
Completely agree with the bolded. Kuznetsov should only be traded if a legitimate upgrade is brought in this offseason, and I can't see that happening in a swap for Kuznetsov alone. Ryan Johansen, for instance, is a huge downgrade over Kuznetsov.
I think your problem is that you only see ideal Kuznetsov instead of the reality, which is far more of a mixed bag. How do you account for GSVA projecting both Tarasenko and Bertuzzi more favorably than Kuznetsov next season? Is it realistic to hold on to a Theoretical Kuznetsov Ceiling in the face of, at least according to that model, three seasons of decline? It would seem, at least according to that model, that a one-for-one swap is actually pretty achievable and that your valuation may be what's skewed. Elsewhere Dom's model projects the likes of Hyman, Krejci, Danault and Tatar more favorably next season. Kuznetsov could break out again. It's possible. But trading from a position of what-this-player-could-possibly-be-if-the-stars-aligned will of course lead to him staying. I've seen other models that put Kuznetsov more along the lines of a lower-end 2C rather than the franchise 1C or substantial upgrade that according to some is the bar that must be met in order to trigger a worthwhile trade.

He's most likely getting traded because of that unrealized upside. Because he could be so much more dominant and just isn't close. They bear a fair share of responsibility for where they find themselves but the reality is this is a very mixed bag player whose value is not exclusively driven by what he can do on his best day alone.
 
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How very ironic; doubly so, as you are the very poster claiming to be privy to knowledge you can't be privy to, and lambasting another over it, for not running with your hyperbolic reasoning.







again,
tenor.gif


That's it? That's your slam dunk? I missed the word "how" in his comment and thought he was saying he didn't know Kuzy tested positive twice. So, "fine" and use some common sense.

I note you omit the rest of the discussion, which centers on his absolute bullshit prevarications about how THESE 2 guys were the ONLY ones who somehow kept getting COVID on the team, after being busted breaking protocol repeatedly. The ways he tried to twist and bend to craft some nonsense narrative about heavily "respirating" athletes surrounded by coaches and fans was pathetic and laughable.

This also doesn't even cover how he's willing to make these kinds of "oh he had COVID so the 3 games mean nothing" excuses for Kuznetsov's performance, but not other players he's slamming. And also ignoring Kuzy's track record of 1 for 7 in the postseason. It's a joke. Especially when his cherrypicking of 5v5 stats for the regular season were compared to playoff stats. His argument was utterly destroyed. Again.

But you think it's clever for some unfathomable reason. That's your problem, bruh.
 
I think your problem is that you only see ideal Kuznetsov instead of the reality, which is far more of a mixed bag. How do you account for GSVA projecting both Tarasenko and Bertuzzi more favorably than Kuznetsov next season? Is it realistic to hold on to a Theoretical Kuznetsov Ceiling in the face of, at least according to that model, three seasons of decline? It would seem, at least according to that model, that a one-for-one swap is actually pretty achievable and that your valuation may be what's skewed. Elsewhere Dom's model projects the likes of Hyman, Krejci, Danault and Tatar more favorably next season. Kuznetsov could break out again. It's possible. But trading from a position of what-this-player-could-possibly-be-if-the-stars-aligned will of course lead to him staying. I've seen other models that put Kuznetsov more along the lines of a lower-end 2C rather than the franchise 1C or substantial upgrade that according to some is the bar that must be met in order to trigger a worthwhile trade.

He's most likely getting traded because of that unrealized upside. Because he could be so much more dominant and just isn't close. Their bear a fair share of responsibility for where they find themselves but the reality is this is a very mixed bag player whose value is not exclusively driven by what he can do on his best day alone.

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with GSVA.

As far as those aforementioned players being more favorable, I would imagine that is mostly due to contractual term. When a player is seemingly in need of a change of scenery, Term and at especially mid to higher level cap hits will most definitely be weighted as riskier negatives. But the reasonable stance is, why trade that at such a low value now? unless again there's a major rift internally, that we do not know 100percent.

As far as Kuz just being a straight decline, has he? I keep seeing arguments its not as bad or as straight forward as that; I mean just looking at raw regular season numbers, it really isn't that alarming.

Now, his playoffs was downright awful. but just as bad were other top 6 (regardless of injuries) BACKSTROM was invisible. Oshie wasnt capable. Wilson seemed neutered. & Ovi was, well, even more one dimensional than usual. Funny enough Mantha was the most dangerous top 6 forward, and he seemingly caught the most unfair flack.
 
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Oh....geez. How many times do I need to say that this is possible. You dont? Thats your right.
Umm...you said it in a very confident manner like you heard it or read it somewhere. No prefixes that would point towards it being just your opinion rather than fact of the matter, no nothing. Just "they've said"...like how the hell one says things like that with no real proof really? Yall sure like call people out about not having real evidence of what they say, mocking a so called "eye test" and then go and say stuff like this.
 
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Now, his playoffs was downright awful. but just as bad were other top 6 (regardless of injuries) BACKSTROM was invisible. Oshie wasnt capable. Wilson seemed neutered. & Ovi was, well, even more one dimensional than usual. Funny enough Mantha was the most dangerous top 6 forward, and he seemingly caught the most unfair flack.

I don't think anyone disputes this part. But Kuzy's situation is unique among all those forwards and there are "high probability" trade rumors along with comments from the GM because there are serious issues with his play, his behavior, and now his salary as a function of the entire package.

Nobody should be making excuses for this guy. He only has himself to blame and he's the only one who can fix it.
 
That's it? That's your slam dunk? I missed the word "how" in his comment and thought he was saying he didn't know Kuzy tested positive twice. So, "fine" and use some common sense.

I note you omit the rest of the discussion, which centers on his absolute bullshit prevarications about how THESE 2 guys were the ONLY ones who somehow kept getting COVID on the team, after being busted breaking protocol repeatedly. The ways he tried to twist and bend to craft some nonsense narrative about heavily "respirating" athletes surrounded by coaches and fans was pathetic and laughable.

This also doesn't even cover how he's willing to make these kinds of "oh he had COVID so the 3 games mean nothing" excuses for Kuznetsov's performance, but not other players he's slamming. And also ignoring Kuzy's track record of 1 for 7 in the postseason. It's a joke. Especially when his cherrypicking of 5v5 stats for the regular season were compared to playoff stats. His argument was utterly destroyed. Again.

But you think it's clever for some unfathomable reason. That's your problem, bruh.
You missed the word how? Now, HOW would we know that? There's that backpaddling you're so willing to throw out on another, eh?

You realize that changes the entire argument and you never mentioned over the course of multiple replies and pages. Sounds like, to me, you are changing the board, because well, you in fact did get slammed dunked on haha, smh.

Oh, did you need all the other words to know the example of what post you were completely out of touch in? No i indeed read it and all it does is further incriminate your hyperbole of kuznsetsov's covid specifics. I mean there you go again, "kept getting covid, and breaking protocol repeatedly" whats that sample size again? 2?

Speaking of sample size, 3 games is small. Especially when you're trying to single out this one player in comparison to others, who had more games, and were just as lackluster on high dollar contracts, in the top 6. Same goes for 1 in 7 post seasons, are you comparing this to the rest of the top 6? and when you do, is that sample size of kuz being comparatively worse getting smaller? Oh, it is? Okay, well what else do you have to justify your irrevocably strong stance?

I see a reasonable argument both ways in regards to kuz, but it leans much easier in the position of keeping him; unless, there is indeed a lockeroom rift, that we arent privy to right now, that he needs to go. He is a highly skilled CENTER, that was the true CONN SMYTHE winner that has game breaking talent that he still shows, that struggled mightily in the playoffs like most of this team. you can dump him for pennies on the dollar, with no true top 6 center replacement when your franchise forwards in Ovi and Backstrom and truly done.
 
Umm...you said it in a very confident manner like you heard it or read it somewhere. No prefixes that would point towards it being just your opinion rather than fact of the matter, no nothing. Just "they've said"...like how the hell one says things like that with no real proof really? Yall sure like call people out about not having real evidence of what they say, mocking a so called "eye test" and then go and say stuff like this.
tenor.gif
 
I think your problem is that you only see ideal Kuznetsov instead of the reality, which is far more of a mixed bag. How do you account for GSVA projecting both Tarasenko and Bertuzzi more favorably than Kuznetsov next season? Is it realistic to hold on to a Theoretical Kuznetsov Ceiling in the face of, at least according to that model, three seasons of decline? It would seem, at least according to that model, that a one-for-one swap is actually pretty achievable and that your valuation may be what's skewed. Elsewhere Dom's model projects the likes of Hyman, Krejci, Danault and Tatar more favorably next season. Kuznetsov could break out again. It's possible. But trading from a position of what-this-player-could-possibly-be-if-the-stars-aligned will of course lead to him staying. I've seen other models that put Kuznetsov more along the lines of a lower-end 2C rather than the franchise 1C or substantial upgrade that according to some is the bar that must be met in order to trigger a worthwhile trade.

He's most likely getting traded because of that unrealized upside. Because he could be so much more dominant and just isn't close. Their bear a fair share of responsibility for where they find themselves but the reality is this is a very mixed bag player whose value is not exclusively driven by what he can do on his best day alone.

I don't actually project Kuznetsov having a great year next year, on average. I've stated multiple times that I think he's more likely to have a disappointing season next year than a great one, and that I'd prefer that he be traded for a high-upside 1C with more consistency. Unlike others, I would trade the farm and/or some current high perceived-value roster players for this high-upside 1C because I don't care about the post-Ovechkin Capitals and any futures that the Capitals have now likely won't be key contributors during the period where Ovechkin is still active. And at least in the case of John Carlson there is a better option as a UFA available in Dougie Hamilton. Make Carlson available, for instance, and there are perhaps some more intriguing 1C options available than some of the names you mentioned. Make Carlson, McMichael, and a few first round picks available and maybe the list gets even bigger.

Right now the Capitals are a fringe NHL playoff team in my estimation, with question marks throughout key positions on their roster. I think they need a spectacular performance out of their 1C in order to have success in the playoffs, especially with question marks regarding Backstrom's health and most of the core getting worse due to the effects of aging. Even if they acquire a player that is, on average, a better player than Kuznetsov (and I have no doubts that models are correct in saying players like Hyman, Tatar, Danault, and Krejci are better on average than Kuznetsov) is their ceiling high-enough to make the Capitals a contender? That needs to be the consideration IMO, not whether on average they are better players.

We already know that Kuznetsov is capable of being a Conn Smythe winner, even if the odds are low that he repeats such a performance. But I'd rather take that slim chance of greatness re-emerging than basically no chance at all, as I see with players like Danault, Krejci, Johansen, etc.

I think the main difference between myself and others is that I don't see this team as close right now talent-wise. And the past 3 postseasons seem to support this position. I don't think altering the second pair on defense, or getting a little more buy-in from the team, or acquiring a low-upside 2C, or Laviolette and the players having a full offseason to get on the same page does anything to make this team a contender. They need more talent.

It's why I've advocated for drastic moves to alter the complexion of the core and to have a net-infusion of talent, at the expense of the post-Ovechkin era starting out more painfully. Again, I'd prefer Kuznetsov be gone next season because I want a player with a similarly high ceiling but with much better odds of actually achieving said high-ceiling. But I don't want a replacement center like Krejci, Danault, or Johansen who cannot achieve that level of greatness no matter how hard he tries. I'd rather roll the dice with Kuznetsov than acquire any of those names or similar, especially since Kuznetsov did show significant improvement under Laviolette last year on the ice. It probably was just a blip on the radar but maybe it was actually legitimate improvement that can be built upon next year. Perhaps Kuznetsov just didn't work under Todd Reirden.

Basically, if the Capitals need a home run to win the Cup like I think they do, then I'd rather send out a slugger who may strike out a lot but can sock a dinger rather than send out a contact hitter incapable of going yard, even if the contact hitter has a better on-base percentage.
 
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