Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 1

[Melkor]

That is certainly a player BMac is going to look hard at. Inconsistency has always been a issue for V but that isn’t the worst thing in the world. I remember a certain young Slovakian player who suffered from the same problem early in his career (he wore number 12 ).

I will say IMO, they need more than just a change behind the bench. It feels like some of the group has become a bit ...maybe the word is stale? I’m not sure how to put it. I guess we shall see soon enough.​

I just don't see it in Vrana anymore. For a long time I've been hoping that he'll eventually find his groove and be a real player on this team that leaders can rely on on a bad day. But he's not that guy. He's the worse version of Semin. Not nearly as skilled as 28 but inconsistent to the same degree. I think you have to trade those guys while their market value is high. Vrana's market value has to be high despite those abysmal playoff numbers. He's still young and some GMs might think they can get a consistency out of him (naive) and overpay. This Caps team got a ton of inconsistent players that you can't really rely on when Ovechkin and Backstrom and Carlson can't play. Kuznetsov seems like he's going through the motions for two years now. Vrana..yeah, that guy we're talking about. Goalie situation is up in the air. The defense..idk I see it as pretty bad. Very bad honestly. Look at it and tell me you think thats a good D that will take you deep in the playoffs. It's not and it was obvious before the last season too.

 

[trick9]

I think in terms of getting better right now without taking on much salary the best bets would propably be Puljujarvi and Crouse seeing as Puljujarvi doesn't want to stay in Edmonton and Arizona desperately wants some picks back. I wonder if they would be interested in Panik+pick for Crouse, as Panik has a history there. Puljujarvi is a high-risk high-reward guy but the cost of adding proven talent is always going to come at a bigger price, both salary wise and in terms of what it would take to acquire them. I think he would really benefit from playing in a veteran team rather than that circus in Edmonton. But that obviously depends on who they hire. If it's Babcock, i would propably pass on that trade.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That is certainly a player BMac is going to look hard at. Inconsistency has always been a issue for V but that isn’t the worst thing in the world. I remember a certain young Slovakian player who suffered from the same problem early in his career (he wore number 12 ).

I will say IMO, they need more than just a change behind the bench. It feels like some of the group has become a bit ...maybe the word is stale? I’m not sure how to put it. I guess we shall see soon enough.​

nope, incorrect...I don’t believe Bondra ever went pointless in a playoff series for the Caps, much 15 games.

 

[TheLegendOfPatPeake]

nope, incorrect...I don’t believe Bondra ever went pointless in a playoff series for the Caps, much 15 games.

Right. I meant the long stretches of inconsistent play. Peter was a streaky player, as is Vrana.

 

[g00n]

Did Bondra ever play for TR?

Vrana is only 24 and has had 132 points in 245 regular season games. Not bad. In the Cup run he contributed 8 points in 23 games but has stunk in postseason play the last 2 years, under TR.

At 3.35M cap hit you'd hope for a little more than a goose egg the past two playoffs, but it's not like he's been a bust. He's being paid Eller and Hagelin money, and is an RFA after next season.

I expect good output in a contract year under a new coach. If he was UFA maybe you think about trading but with RFA status still there just hope he earns his next contract.

 

[Raikkonen]

At 3.35M cap hit you'd hope for a little more than a goose egg the past two playoffs, but it's not like he's been a bust. He's being paid Eller and Hagelin money, and is an RFA after next season.

Dont kid yourself. His numbers in regular season ES can get him not 3,3M but about twice that.

 

[g00n]

Dont kid yourself. His numbers in regular season ES can get him not 3,3M but about twice that.

Right, which is why I say give him a chance to earn it. If the Caps make the playoffs again (as they should) and he stinks it up then the regular season stats should have less value to us. He may price himself out of his next contract as Mojo did, while similarly underwhelming in key areas (playoffs).

If he puts up 25-30 goals in the RS then turns it around in the playoffs he'll probably earn the next deal here, imo. But it's too early to cut bait.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I’d be really surprised if they made a hockey trade with a top 9 forward (I don’t consider Panik top 9).

I’d wager any real hockey trade, IF they make one, will be for the defense. They made need to send some forward salary out to do it (Panik or Hathaway....can’t see them dealing Hagelin), and of course some of the D salary as well.
Gudas is gone
Dillon should be back

That leaves Kempny and Jensen, IMO. I think they upgrade Kempny and spend assets and money to do it. I don’t think we will see a 2-3m UFA d-man, we have enough of those. It’s gotta be 4+m player. Maybe even 5-6m.

the disparity in salaries between the forwards and the defensemen was stark last year. It’s easily identifiable. Only 2 of the top 12 salaries were D-Men. 9 were forwards (and then Holtby).

9 forwards made 2.75m or higher annually. Only 2 defenseman.

9/12 forwards made more than 2.7m (75%)
2/6 defensemen makes more than 2.7m (33%).

that is the biggest issue. Easily.

 

[Langway]

If he puts up 25-30 goals in the RS then turns it around in the playoffs he'll probably earn the next deal here, imo. But it's too early to cut bait.

Probably right. The only exception would be IF they don't believe they can manage his likely $5-6M AAV after next season, can get a very strong near NHL-ready return AND can use his $3.3M cap hit to better use. Hard to believe all three happen. It can't be ruled out absolutely because he may be the most manageable shake-up target given what should be pretty high value. But he should also be very valuable to them next season at that cap hit and given his speed and 5-on-5 production.

 

[maacoshark]

Did Bondra ever play for TR?

Vrana is only 24 and has had 132 points in 245 regular season games. Not bad. In the Cup run he contributed 8 points in 23 games but has stunk in postseason play the last 2 years, under TR.

At 3.35M cap hit you'd hope for a little more than a goose egg the past two playoffs, but it's not like he's been a bust. He's being paid Eller and Hagelin money, and is an RFA after next season.

I expect good output in a contract year under a new coach. If he was UFA maybe you think about trading but with RFA status still there just hope he earns his next contract.

I don't find Vrana's numbers very impressive considering he spends most of his time floating in the neutral waiting for a stretch pass. He doesn't bring alot else to the table. Has good speed and a decent shot.
But he doesn't really play defensively, doesn't back check well, doesn't forecheck well, doesn't play physical, doesn't win any board battles, doesn't go to the dirty areas, he doesn't kill penalties, he does get some time on the PP but doesn't really excel at it.
And he has not performed very well in the playoffs. Probably because playoff hockey is tougher and grittier than the regular season. I think he had only 8 points in our stanley cup run and then was shut out in back to back playoff seasons. I don't get the hype at all.
He is a difficult player to watch, especially live.

 

[g00n]

I don't find Vrana's numbers very impressive considering he spends most of his time floating in the neutral waiting for a stretch pass. He doesn't bring alot else to the table. Has good speed and a decent shot.
But he doesn't really play defensively, doesn't back check well, doesn't forecheck well, doesn't play physical, doesn't win any board battles, doesn't go to the dirty areas, he doesn't kill penalties, he does get some time on the PP but doesn't really excel at it.
And he has not performed very well in the playoffs. Probably because playoff hockey is tougher and grittier than the regular season. I think he had only 8 points in our stanley cup run and then was shut out in back to back playoff seasons. I don't get the hype at all.
He is a difficult player to watch, especially live.

He scores goals.

He tied for 35th overall in the entire NHL last year in goals scored, as a 24 year old in his 3rd "full" season. And that's in 69 games. He was on pace for about 30 goals if given a full 82 games, and all but one goal was at even strength.

That has value in the NHL.

He was 3rd on the team in goals scored and 4th in assists.

That has value to the franchise.

His deficiencies as a 2-way player may or may not factor into his value in the next system.

 

[Rayquaza64]

He scores goals.

He tied for 35th overall in the entire NHL last year in goals scored, as a 24 year old in his 3rd "full" season. And that's in 69 games. He was on pace for about 30 goals if given a full 82 games, and all but one goal was at even strength.

That has value in the NHL.

He was 3rd on the team in goals scored and 4th in assists.

That has value to the franchise.

His deficiencies as a 2-way player may or may not factor into his value in the next system.

Backy is the only real player in the top 6 with a solid two way game, the others...... lets say defense is a thing to be desired

 

[um]

Backy is the only real player in the top 6 with a solid two way game, the others...... lets say defense is a thing to be desired

I’d say Wilson and Oshie certainly have a two way game.

 

[g00n]

Ovechkin is also much better defensively than he was earlier in his career. Kuzy and Vrana are really the only ones in the top 6 that aren't at an acceptable level fitting a "team defense" strategy.

 

[maacoshark]

He scores goals.

He tied for 35th overall in the entire NHL last year in goals scored, as a 24 year old in his 3rd "full" season. And that's in 69 games. He was on pace for about 30 goals if given a full 82 games, and all but one goal was at even strength.

That has value in the NHL.

He was 3rd on the team in goals scored and 4th in assists.

That has value to the franchise.

His deficiencies as a 2-way player may or may not factor into his value in the next system.

His numbers aren't good enough for a player that doesn't bring anything else. Players like Kutcherov or Patrick Kane can get away with floating and being a bit lazy because they bring so much offensively and are so good on the PP. They also produce in the playoffs. Vrana doesn't.
Here is a good example. Chandler Stephenson who most people here think is nothing but a scrub. Is a 4th line player, mostly a defensive and pk specialist has more career playoff goals and points than Vrana does. Their playoff numbers are pretty close. The difference is that Vrana is out there to produce offensively. Stephensons role is a defensive role. Any production you get out do Stephenson is a bonus.
There is no way to argue that Vrana's numbers are good enough for an offense only player. When he starts scoring 30 plus goals and 80 plus points on a regular basis and starts producing in the playoffs, I will cut him some slack about the rest of his game. But until then. No way.
Alot of people said similar things about Burakovsky and I didn't disagree. But he was a better all around player than Vrana is.

 

[maacoshark]

Backy is the only real player in the top 6 with a solid two way game, the others...... lets say defense is a thing to be desired

Wilson is probably our best 2 way forward right now. Backstrom and Oshie are defensively responsible but the lack of speed hurts them at times.
Ovi has improved but is still hit and miss. He turns it off and on. Kuzy could be ok defensively but he is a bit of a flake.
And Vrana just says whoa there, I don't play defense.

 

[g00n]

There is no way to argue that Vrana's numbers are good enough for an offense only player. When he starts scoring 30 plus goals and 80 plus points on a regular basis and starts producing in the playoffs, I will cut him some slack about the rest of his game. But until then. No way.
.

How many NHL players fit this description?

 

[Rayquaza64]

Wilson is probably our best 2 way forward right now. Backstrom and Oshie are defensively responsible but the lack of speed hurts them at times.
Ovi has improved but is still hit and miss. He turns it off and on. Kuzy could be ok defensively but he is a bit of a flake.
And Vrana just says whoa there, I don't play defense.

vrana is much better than ovi and kuzy at defense

 

[TheLegendOfPatPeake]

vrana is much better than ovi and kuzy at defense

Wut?

 

[maacoshark]

vrana is much better than ovi and kuzy at defense

I am Lmao. Vrana might be the worst defensive player in the league. Even Ovi and Kuzy Re light years ahead of Vrana.
Watch Vrana play. He doesn't enter the defensive zone very often. When he does, he always leaves the zone early trying to get that breakaway stretch pass.
People here blame our defencemen for turning the puck over in the neutral zone but alot of that has to do with our forwards leaving the zone early. There is no puck support for our defensemen. They are forced to attempt a stretch pass or just dump it out of the defensive zone. We might be the worst team at getting the puck out of the zone.

 

[maacoshark]

How many NHL players fit this description?

Very few. In today's game not many forwards are as one dimensional as Vrana. I did mention Kutcherov and Patrick Kane as being floaters.
I can't really think of many players that fit that description. Even the star players like McDavid and Mackinnon are alot more defensively responsible. Malkin has a reputation of being weak defensively but he is still way better than Vrana and Malkin does so many other things better.
Who else in this league floats around like that, doesn't play defense, doesn't go into the corners, doesn't forecheck or backcheck, doesn't play physical at all. And also doesn't produce in the playoff. I mean the guy is a no show.
I can't think of a single player in the league that fits that criteria.
Maybe someone like Bobby Ryan.

 

[txpd]

When he starts scoring 30 plus goals and 80 plus points on a regular basis and starts producing in the playoffs, I will cut him some slack about the rest of his game. But until then. No way.

How many 80pt players are not on their team's pp1 and how many are not featured players on that pp1?

 

[Ridley Simon]

His numbers aren't good enough for a player that doesn't bring anything else. Players like Kutcherov or Patrick Kane can get away with floating and being a bit lazy because they bring so much offensively and are so good on the PP. They also produce in the playoffs. Vrana doesn't.
Here is a good example. Chandler Stephenson who most people here think is nothing but a scrub. Is a 4th line player, mostly a defensive and pk specialist has more career playoff goals and points than Vrana does. Their playoff numbers are pretty close. The difference is that Vrana is out there to produce offensively. Stephensons role is a defensive role. Any production you get out do Stephenson is a bonus.
There is no way to argue that Vrana's numbers are good enough for an offense only player. When he starts scoring 30 plus goals and 80 plus points on a regular basis and starts producing in the playoffs, I will cut him some slack about the rest of his game. But until then. No way.
Alot of people said similar things about Burakovsky and I didn't disagree. But he was a better all around player than Vrana is.

we all know how much you admire Chandler. You left the boards for months after he was traded. Seemingly in mourning about it.

using him as an example of anything taints your argument good sir. As we know you are biased (severely?) for Chandler.

You guys are from the same town in Canada, yes?

 

[JayBeagleFanAccount]

vrana is much better than ovi and kuzy at defense

Not hard to be better at defense than two of the worst defensive forwards in the NHL.

 

[g00n]

Very few. In today's game not many forwards are as one dimensional as Vrana. I did mention Kutcherov and Patrick Kane as being floaters.
I can't really think of many players that fit that description. Even the star players like McDavid and Mackinnon are alot more defensively responsible. Malkin has a reputation of being weak defensively but he is still way better than Vrana and Malkin does so many other things better.
Who else in this league floats around like that, doesn't play defense, doesn't go into the corners, doesn't forecheck or backcheck, doesn't play physical at all. And also doesn't produce in the playoff. I mean the guy is a no show.
I can't think of a single player in the league that fits that criteria.
Maybe someone like Bobby Ryan.

You're basically talking about maybe 20-25 guys in the NHL who are point per game players and 30+ goal scorers, nevermind whether they float or play defense, or show up in the playoffs. It's a small club to start with. And most enjoy significant power play opportunities to pad their stats.

Vrana can't crack PP1 because of who's in front of him, otherwise he'd probably hit those 30/80 marks pretty easily. His PPP/60 the last 2 years is better than Oshie and Ovechkin, believe it or not.

Vrana also tallied his 25 goals and and 27 assists in 69 games with just 14:53 minutes of ice time per game. The only player with more goals and anything even close to that little TOI was Kubalik in CHI (30 goals, 16 assists, 14:22 TOI/g).

Point being, I think your acceptance criteria for Vrana is a bit too high.