Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2020 Offseason Pt. 1

[txpd]

Something around Siegenthaler, Hathaway, and futures for Brodin.

Havent a clue what MN would want. I would expect they would want a quality future or two. Not sure why they would want Hathaway or why the Caps would move Siegenthaler?

Johansen and a draft pick or two. I have no idea if Brodin is really available. Only that he has 1 year left on his deal and the Wild or struggling.

 

[Kalopsia]

Reirden was agreed to be a super defenseman coach. He gets a lot of the credit for the position play before he was a head coach. Niskanen's step up and Carlson's step up were not Trotz. Kempny's cup run play and his play the next season before the injury was not Trotz. Lets be fair to Reirden. I am fairly sure the reason they went cheap with Kempny and tried again with Jensen was Reirden's track record.

Fehervary isnt a top 4 defenseman on a competitive team. Rookies and inexperienced defensemen are rarely top 4 good on the defensive side of the game. They can surely impact games if they are offensive players, but not so defensively. Hell, Siegenthaler is a rarity being so young and a penalty kill specialist.

The only way the Caps go into next season with Fehervary in a top 4 spot, is to give him experience and then replace him with a trade deadline acquisition. My view is that wont happen because the Caps need to get it right as early as they can.

Going by TOI/game in the playoffs...

• Philly has two 23 year olds (Provarov and Myers) and a 24 year old (Sanheim) as their number 1, 4, and 3 defensemen, respectively.
• The Bruins top defenseman is 22 (McAvoy), and their number 3 is 23 (Carlo).
• The Lightning's second pairing is a 22 year old (Sergachev) and a 23 year old (Cernak), and the 23 year old has moved up to the top pairing since McDonagh's injury.
• The Canucks' top defenseman is 20 (Hughes).
• Colorado's top 2 defensemen are 21 (Makar) and 22 (Girard).
• Dallas is giving a 21 year old (Heiskanen) nearly 26 minutes a night in the playoffs.

So 6 out of the remaining 8 teams have at least one player 23 or younger getting top pairing minutes. Even if they're mostly offensive defensemen, they're clearly not holding their teams back, and plenty of them are being relied on defensively, too. Cernak, Carlo, Provarov, McAvoy, Heiskanen, Sanheim, and Sergachev are all getting more than 1:30 SH per game.

 

[maacoshark]

I think something this team really needs that no one is discussing is an elite faceoff man. We were the worst faceoff team in the league. The game is alot more difficult when you are starting without the puck so often.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Eller is a hit and miss player. Very inconsistant. He does some things very well. Strong on the puck, good possession guy and good on the pk. But he is prone to making very poor decisions with the puck. It happens way too often.
He isn't the first guy I would ship out though.

How can a guy play a center forward role if he never pass the puck? Trade him, or place him on 3LW or 4LW if you like his selfish style of no play.

 

[maacoshark]

Going by TOI/game in the playoffs...

• Philly has two 23 year olds (Provarov and Myers) and a 24 year old (Sanheim) as their number 1, 4, and 3 defensemen, respectively.
• The Bruins top defenseman is 22 (McAvoy), and their number 3 is 23 (Carlo).
• The Lightning's second pairing is a 22 year old (Sergachev) and a 23 year old (Cernak), and the 23 year old has moved up to the top pairing since McDonagh's injury.
• The Canucks' top defenseman is 20 (Hughes).
• Colorado's top 2 defensemen are 21 (Makar) and 22 (Girard).
• Dallas is giving a 21 year old (Heiskanen) nearly 26 minutes a night in the playoffs.

So 6 out of the remaining 8 teams have at least one player 23 or younger getting top pairing minutes. Even if they're mostly offensive defensemen, they're clearly not holding their teams back, and plenty of them are being relied on defensively, too. Cernak, Carlo, Provarov, McAvoy, Heiskanen, Sanheim, and Sergachev are all getting more than 1:30 SH per game.

I understand your point which is why I have no problem with a couple of young defenders in the lineup.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Something around Siegenthaler, Hathaway, and futures for Brodin.

Sounds like a one sided dream for us....

 

[txpd]

So you are saying the play of these players was Reirden and not Trotz? I don't buy it at all.
I think Reirden was a complete bust.

Two points. Niskanen in particular was vocal about Reirden being a reason he signed from Pittsburgh. Vocal about Reirden being a reason for his game improving. Orpik said similar. Pretty sure i remember Carlson giving Reirden credit for him growing into a Norris finalist twice now.

Then there is the widely reported fact that other teams wanted to hire Reirden as an HC and Caps refused permission.

If you want to say that Reirden was a failure as an HC, thats acceptable. To suggest he is just a crappy hockey coach is ridiculous.

 

[Kalopsia]

Dillon returned a 2nd. He’s a comparable player to Brodin. Brodin is better, but not McMichael or a top end prospect better.

Brodin is not worth a high end C prospect. Not even close.

This is mostly based on reputation, cause I'm by no means an expert in Western Conference defensive defensemen, but my perception is that Brodin has a much higher pedigree than Dillon, and he's only a second pairing guy because he happens to be behind Ryan Suter. I looked over on the Wild's forum, and in their version of this thread there was some debate over whether Dylan Strome - 23 year old center with a 50 point season under his belt - was a sufficient return. Maybe they're grossly overvaluing him, especially since he's on an expiring contract, but unless they're overvaluing him by a crazy amount the package you suggested isn't going to cut it.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Havent a clue what MN would want. I would expect they would want a quality future or two. Not sure why they would want Hathaway or why the Caps would move Siegenthaler?

Johansen and a draft pick or two. I have no idea if Brodin is really available. Only that he has 1 year left on his deal and the Wild or struggling.

My premise is that Caps resign Dillon before trading for Brodin. With that mindset, there is no room for Siegs. He’s a good young (perhaps limited) defensemen. Minnesota could use him.

Hathaway is for salary purposes, as his 1.5m give the team a little more space, and I think they have intentions to play Sprong and McMichael next season. With that in mind, some forwards would need to be moved out. Panik is more expensive so I’d wager he’d be a little harder to move.

I know you like Siegs a lot. But you need to give to get.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

I think something this team really needs that no one is discussing is an elite faceoff man. We were the worst faceoff team in the league. The game is alot more difficult when you are starting without the puck so often.

Who?

Phillip Danault
Ryan Johansen
Tyler Seguin
Tyler Bozak
Derek Ryan
Bo Horvat
Bryan Little
Jordan Staal
Travis Zajac
Adam Lowry

Will this player take the Ellers roster spot?

 

[Ridley Simon]

This is mostly based on reputation, cause I'm by no means an expert in Western Conference defensive defensemen, but my perception is that Brodin has a much higher pedigree than Dillon, and he's only a second pairing guy because he happens to be behind Ryan Suter. I looked over on the Wild's forum, and in their version of this thread there was some debate over whether Dylan Strome - 23 year old center with a 50 point season under his belt - was a sufficient return. Maybe they're grossly overvaluing him, especially since he's on an expiring contract, but unless they're overvaluing him by a crazy amount the package you suggested isn't going to cut it.

He’s only got a year left on his deal. Of course Wild fan wants to moon. We would too. I can’t see the Wild getting high prospect value for a rental.

So I don’t see McMichael, Protas, Ferhervary, or Alexeyev being available for a 1yr rental. I also think you are undervaluing Siegenthaler. Hathaway is just for salary. Obviously I don’t think he’s a desired guy, but he is a decent player and Minnesota could use a little grit in their bottom 6.

Leason just came to mind. I’d deal any prospect other than the 4 I mentioned above.

 

[txpd]

Going by TOI/game in the playoffs...

• Philly has two 23 year olds (Provarov and Myers) and a 24 year old (Sanheim) as their number 1, 4, and 3 defensemen, respectively.
• The Bruins top defenseman is 22 (McAvoy), and their number 3 is 23 (Carlo).
• The Lightning's second pairing is a 22 year old (Sergachev) and a 23 year old (Cernak), and the 23 year old has moved up to the top pairing since McDonagh's injury.
• The Canucks' top defenseman is 20 (Hughes).
• Colorado's top 2 defensemen are 21 (Makar) and 22 (Girard).
• Dallas is giving a 21 year old (Heiskanen) nearly 26 minutes a night in the playoffs.

So 6 out of the remaining 8 teams have at least one player 23 or younger getting top pairing minutes. Even if they're mostly offensive defensemen, they're clearly not holding their teams back, and plenty of them are being relied on defensively, too. Cernak, Carlo, Provarov, McAvoy, Heiskanen, Sanheim, and Sergachev are all getting more than 1:30 SH per game.

See the games played by those guys. Fehervary next season and Fehervary after 200 or 250 games are different things entire.

 

[txpd]

My premise is that Caps resign Dillon before trading for Brodin. With that mindset, there is no room for Siegs.

You have one of Dillon or Brodin on the 3rd pair? Maclellan isnt going to pay for that.

 

[Ridley Simon]

You have one of Dillon or Brodin on the 3rd pair? Maclellan isnt going to pay for that.

I posted the lineup. Neither Dillon or Brodin is on the 3rd.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

You have one of Dillon or Brodin on the 3rd pair? Maclellan isnt going to pay for that.

Dillon is a 3rd pair caliber player. The question is 'will he find a goofy GM, who bring him a $2.0M+ per year contract?'

 

[Ridley Simon]

Dillon is a 3rd pair caliber player. The question is 'will he find a guffy GM, who bring him a $2.0M+ per year contract?'

Right. And Boyd is a top 6C. You have some funky analysis at times

 

[maacoshark]

Two points. Niskanen in particular was vocal about Reirden being a reason he signed from Pittsburgh. Vocal about Reirden being a reason for his game improving. Orpik said similar. Pretty sure i remember Carlson giving Reirden credit for him growing into a Norris finalist twice now.

Then there is the widely reported fact that other teams wanted to hire Reirden as an HC and Caps refused permission.

If you want to say that Reirden was a failure as an HC, thats acceptable. To suggest he is just a crappy hockey coach is ridiculous.

Well maybe he helped them develope individually but he completely failed as a head coach. I'm not saying he is a crappy coach. I've never said that. I'm saying he is a crappy head coach.
Developing a players individual skills doesn't translate to team success and it doesn't mean he will become a good head coach.
When we won the cup in 2018, we won because of the system. It definitely wasn't because of the individual play of our dcore. The d core was easily the weakest part of our team.

 

[maacoshark]

He’s only got a year left on his deal. Of course Wild fan wants to moon. We would too. I can’t see the Wild getting high prospect value for a rental.

So I don’t see McMichael, Protas, Ferhervary, or Alexeyev being available for a 1yr rental. I also think you are undervaluing Siegenthaler. Hathaway is just for salary. Obviously I don’t think he’s a desired guy, but he is a decent player and Minnesota could use a little grit in their bottom 6.

Leason just came to mind. I’d deal any prospect other than the 4 I mentioned above.

We don't have alot of forward prospects coming up. I wouldn't trade any of them.
I'd rather trade one of our forwards currently in the lineup.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Right. And Boyd is a top 6C. You have some funky analysis at times

I would say 'visionary'. But visionary things are funky before they become reality. I do agree.

Then we traded Niskanen, everyone hated Jensen on the first line. But I defended him. Now people love Jensen. Today Holtby is finally gone and I see that it is time to upgrade Nick. It is rational choice making. Is it funky? Maybe. It is subjective. Today everyone loves Dillon. But in six months you will all hate him and his contract.

 

[g00n]

I know arguing over lines is what we do best here but IMO the roster moves aren't going to happen until the new coach is in place and a philosophy is installed. Once that's set then GMBM will have the blueprint for the roster, based on how the lines are likely to be formed (speed, grit, puck retrievers, playmakers, shut down 3rd?, etc)

So projecting anything other than the top line right now seems like a blind stab.

 

[txpd]

I posted the lineup. Neither Dillon or Brodin is on the 3rd.

I didnt see it. I see 3 top 4 left d. Orlov, Dillon and Brodin

 

[txpd]

This is mostly based on reputation, cause I'm by no means an expert in Western Conference defensive defensemen, but my perception is that Brodin has a much higher pedigree than Dillon, and he's only a second pairing guy because he happens to be behind Ryan Suter. .

Suter and Brodin are partners or have been often

 

[Ridley Simon]

I didnt see it. I see 3 top 4 left d. Orlov, Dillon and Brodin

Orlov plays on his off side all the time.

He could easily play w either Brodin or Dillon.

Top 4 is Orlov, Carlson, Dillon, and Brodin. Jensen and Fehervary would be bottom pair.

would be a really good defense

 

[txpd]

Orlov plays on his off side all the time.

He could easily play w either Brodin or Dillon.

Top 4 is Orlov, Carlson, Dillon, and Brodin. Jensen and Fehervary would be bottom pair.

would be a really good defense

I kind of think the consensus here is that Orlov was not good playing the right.

 

[txpd]

Well maybe he helped them develope individually but he completely failed as a head coach. I'm not saying he is a crappy coach. I've never said that. I'm saying he is a crappy head coach.
Developing a players individual skills doesn't translate to team success and it doesn't mean he will become a good head coach.
When we won the cup in 2018, we won because of the system. It definitely wasn't because of the individual play of our dcore. The d core was easily the weakest part of our team.

Reirden is considered a defenseman guru. His work with Niskanen, Carlson and Kempny at minimum and I would add Orlov and his reduced pizza number is pretty clear. So, the call him a complete bust was bogus.

Since the conversation was specific to Reirden being able to coach up defensemen his status as a HC was beside the point.